Generator Question

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LoveTheTrack

New Member
Hello all,

Quick question about generators. I know everyone recommends either the Honda or Yamaha generators because they are quiet and portable, however my main question is if those specific generators come equipped with power inverters? I'm only asking because many of the other "loud" brands say they do not, however they have the same amount of operating power (2000 watts). I have already sourced how to modify the exhausts on other generators, so that won't be an issue. Just curious about the lack of a power inverter and its potential effects on warmers. Any hints, tips or advice will be welcomed.

Thanks,

Adam


p.s. If anyone has a generator they want to part with, I am interested.
 
HondaGalToo

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
The Yamaha EF2000iS and Honda EU2000i are inverter generators. Some of their larger ones, like the 2400 or 3000 are also. When shopping, it should state that they are in the description.
 
jimgl3

jimgl3

Member
i thought an inverter was something you hook to your car's battery or a deep cycle battery and get 120 power???

i've borrowed a gennie for rd atlanta for my warmers... have i messed up? i have no idea if it's an "inverter" gennie

it's a champion 5000 and has a 120 / 240 switch

???
 
Gorecki

Gorecki

Member
Inverters are exactly that, they convert AC power to DC or DC power to AC. The honda for example has a jack for 12V DC (like your car). The term's 'Inverter' are added to the generator because the conversion is built in as it's designed to produce AC power.

The vast majority of devices already have their own AC->DC converts. Example is a common laptop, it's 'power supply' is actually an inverter to DC. Cell phone chargers for house are inverters....etc.

More times then not, I really don't see anyone *really* needing the generator to be an inverter.
 
Mikey75702

Mikey75702

Member
They claim the inverter generators are better for sensitive electronics like computers because they have less spikey power delivery... but not real sure on how much it really affects said electronics.
 
D-Zum

D-Zum

My 13 year old is faster than your President
Mikey75702;184439 wrote: They claim the inverter generators are better for sensitive electronics like computers because they have less spikey power delivery... but not real sure on how much it really affects said electronics.
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My electronics training was in 1994-1995, so it's a little rusty..but I if I recall correctly, a "cleaner" power source for these electronic devices is preferred because of the sensitivity of the microcircuitry on the system boards.

Amperage or Voltage spikes could fry the boards and render them worthless. Which is why as a general rule we plug our home computers into power strips with surge protectors.
 
Gorecki

Gorecki

Member
No problem Jim! :)

As for power flux. For it to recieve a 120V AC UL Listed rating it needs to evaluate within certain criteria. If they do not state a specific UL Listing class, what they 'say' means absolutely nothing. The honda (for example) express no UL Listing in their documentation. May have one, but it's not in the docs. Even their 3000 unit states in the documentation the 12V DC line is 'Only for charging 12V automotive batteries'. Meaning it's nothing more than a conversion very much like a battery tender (without the tender part).

Producing power from a gas powered engine is relatively easy and even the cheap generators will do it well. It's mostly a matter of wattage and amperage they can sustain and how loud they are while doing so.

The fault tolerances of todays electronics is extreme, they'll take total garbage in and still function. The voltage coming out of the outlet in your home can range from 80's-130's and be of zero concern.

So, bottom line is if there is any concern for the safety of the electronics, run a 'power conditioner' or in the least 'surge protector' between the generator and your electronics. This will be about is good as it gets.
 
Mikey75702

Mikey75702

Member
My confusion about that whole theory is that what does an "unclean" power source really do to computers... they all run off of 12volts last time I checked, and they use a built in inverter to go from wall outlet 120volts down to that 12volts... so I have been a bit confused about the whole your laptop needs an inverter generator thing....
 
Gorecki

Gorecki

Member
Mikey75702;184480 wrote: My confusion about that whole theory is that what does an "unclean" power source really do to computers... they all run off of 12volts last time I checked, and they use a built in inverter to go from wall outlet 120volts down to that 12volts... so I have been a bit confused about the whole your laptop needs an inverter generator thing....
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Mikey, computers come in a couple of breeds. Laptops or related are basically battery powered and use DC power. Desktops or related use AC power. The laptop commonly takes ~19V DC feed and it's power use is distributed at the motherboard level. Desktops use a 'power supply' which is basically a power transformer converting 120V in to what is needed thoughout the system and its sub-systems or buses, 12V, 5V, 3.3V and more all originating from the power supply directly. So all that to say, though they are are like devices, electronically they differ drastically.

"Unclean" power is just a quick and dirty way to say anything BUT a contiguous consistent power. As I said before, the electronics today are designed to TOLERATE very large power irregularities or fluctuations, mostly being increase or decrease to the voltage that the equipment to handle.

What kills is power surge! This is an uncontrolled burst of power to a source that exceeds it's ability to tolerate it. Here's a grand example most everyone knows. When do the vast majority of light bulbs burn out? When they're turned on! Why? A light bulb element be it faulty or tired can tolerate contiguous power. When they are turned on they get a surge of power and sometimes can't take it. There is NOTHING in a light bulb protecting from or regulating the power coming into it. Most other electronics have tolerances built in to handle this far better. It's usually only when that surge is extreme is when they can't handle it.

Tried to keep geek speak to a minimum, hopefully it was helpful? :dunno:
 
J

jcrich

Member
LoveTheTrack;184551 wrote: So, running a set of warmers on a "loud" generator that has a minimum of 2000 running watts is okay?
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Yes that will power a set of warmers. To prevent a beatdown by your pit neighbors also having a very long extension cord to be able to put the generator well away from your pit is recommended. :D
 
Gorecki

Gorecki

Member
jcrich;184552 wrote: Yes that will power a set of warmers. To prevent a beatdown by your pit neighbors also having a very long extension cord to be able to put the generator well away from your pit is recommended. :D
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:agree:

I've been tempted to pickup one of these cheaper genny's, measure the factory db output and figure out an exhaust modification to quiet it down. Because really what's wrong with them isn't their ability to produce power, it's the ability to do so as quietly as possible. Would be an amusing project to geek on for a bit. :notsure:
 
HondaGalToo

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
jcrich;184552 wrote: Yes that will power a set of warmers. To prevent a beatdown by your pit neighbors also having a very long extension cord to be able to put the generator well away from your neighbors' pits is recommended. :D
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Fixerated. I've seen folks run a long extension cord so their generacket isn't by them, but instead on top of their neighbors. As I've said before, I understand that not everyone wants to or can fork out a grand for one of the quiet ones. But, if you can't, park far away from everyone and/or run a long extension cord and put it out in the woods. This isn't even possible at all tracks if paddock space is at a premium.
 
tittys04

tittys04

Member
It's not the motor that causes the noise... well, not entirely. The motors are definitely louder than, say a Honda. You could spend a lot of time trying to figure out a way to quiet that down, and still be disappointed in the outcome. The problem is that the anctual generators are usually quite noisy, themselves, and there's no real way to muffle those.

My suggestion is to build a box around the genny that is a few inches off the ground (that will allow air to flow underneath to cool the genny) and goes above the genny about 6 inches. I would leave at least a good foot around the perimeter of the genny (again, for air flow), and make the box in a way that makes it wasy to break down flat.
 
jimgl3

jimgl3

Member
the one i'm bringing is a champion and you can talk in normal tone of voice standing right beside it. nothing at all like some i have heard at wera races where the folks 3 pits down from them can't hear each other scream!
 
tittys04

tittys04

Member
I've got a Coleman 1850, and a champion 4000. The champion is quieter than the coleman, but both are reasonable. Neither of them is like a harber freight special...
 
L

LoveTheTrack

New Member
tittys04;184573 wrote: I've got a Coleman 1850, and a champion 4000. The champion is quieter than the coleman, but both are reasonable. Neither of them is like a harber freight special...
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Would you recommend a Champion generator for warmers then?
 
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