Good BP... Clean line.... buttttttttt....

[CBRtist]

Is it possible to just hit a ceiling and never BE fast(er)?

I hear I have good BP, clean line, but I can't get my speed up. I'm affected with throttle-itis. Don't get me wrong, I'm not looking for a bump and am more than happy to hang with my N friends for life (if you guys would just stop bumping them OUT!!! ). I just can't will myself to go faster. And by faster I just want to be able to keep pace, possibly pass a couple of people in my lifetime.

At Summit I worked on what I could, other than speed (thanks to the helpful advice of the awesome CRs) , such as throttle maintenance, braking, scanning/looking ahead with my eyes, etc.) and through that I can see where I can shave time off, but I am woefully slow in scary turns and in continual fear, from the buzzing I hear behind me, of getting a$$ packed.

I know my couple of crashes affected my performance and it's a slow crawl back, but I wasn't anywhere to begin with Is this an age thing? Being a mom thing? It gets frustrating to have young whippersnappers blowing past me straight up and down leaned over. Oh if I were 23 again *sigh*. Remind me again what perfecting this BP stuff was all about (other than sculpting my legs ). I need a little encouragement, I feel like I'm in some kind of limbo. I guess I can just continue to work on everything else, aside from speed, to perfection for eternity?

Yes I'm having fun. Yes I know that's what is important. Should I just resign myself to being a Sunday rider and take in more scenery?

 

[D-Zum]

DO NOT GIVE UP!!!!!

I was in the Novice group for 4 years..maybe 5. Yeah..5 cause I joined in 2002.

I was stuck....completely stuck. Frustrated, too.

Then, one day things kinda just started to click. And I started to pass people....a LOT of people.

In 2007 on the LAST day of the year at Barber, on the 2nd to last session of the day, they gave me a new sticker.
Ain't gonna lie...I got choked up.

13 years, and a few "good" crashes later, I'm still learning, still struggling at times with things. I'm the caboose in A group.
Last year was a frustrating year in trying to get the track to start "talking to me" again....feel the rhythm.

BUT

This year..I'm having an absolute FREAKIN' BLAST! Yesterday with Judy and Greg was Spec-FREAKIN'-Tacular!!!!
I'm not setting lap records, Yank and Emerson still come blasting by me like I'm standing still, but I'm not standing
as still as I used to. I can keep them in sight for a couple corners...and that's improvement.

You're doing everything well. Do it better. Look at your photos, and then look at some of the A Rider and CR photos and compare yourself to theirs.
Your BP is good..what are they doing better? Subtle things like where's their elbow compared to yours. Lead into the corner with your inside shoulder.
Get your face where the mirror would be. Is your outside forearm resting on your tank through the corner?

Then when you've done ALL that right, and you're coming out of the corner.....that little twisty thing in your right hand.....twist it. Gradually and progressively
feed in more throttle as you take away lean angle. If you come out of the corner and "Push the bike up" with your arms first before you bring yourself up onto the
seat at the exit, either left or right corner exit, it naturally causes you to twist the throttle. It's something I picked up form DJ Jackson, and it's something I
continue to work on today.

I'm not a CR by any means...but this is my two cents on the topic for your consideration.

And we gotta get Ria and Alex together to ride in Sept. I think she may inspire him to start to learn to ride without training wheels.

 

[HondaGalToo]

Great post, Wendy. I think all of us, no matter what level we're at, experience plateaus in our riding. Keep chipping away.
Just this season, I am finally back to where I was a few years ago, pre-crash. It took me a long time to get the confidence back. Now, I feel like I'm riding well, but, like you, am wondering if I'll ever get faster than I am now. Where and how the heck will I find those seconds?

 

[Brian16]

Three year Novice here! The biggest thing for me was looking thru the turn. Picking out a marker and making my head move to look at it. It really does slow things down and helped me avoid a target fix crash when a rider went down right in front of me. I forced my head to look thru the turn and kept on my line. I have also worked on my foot position as Lenny suggested at VIR and feel a lot more comfortable getting off the bike. Another thing for me is I am less 'brave' in left handers for some reason. Rights I can do all day with my eyes closed, but for some reason the lefts get to me. I just keep working on one thing at a time and try and improve on something every time out. Even if I'm no faster. Maybe it's get off the bike and keep it more upright or maybe work on markers. Keep doing what you are doing and the pace will flow!

 

[andykurz]

1. Follow someone fast. That is why riding trackdays in skill-groups and behind CRs is so valuable. Follow someone a little faster than you. Learning by following is almost the only way to get faster, quickly. Otherwise, your fear of not crashing will overwhelm you. With the right fundamentals (it sounds like you have that), you will be stunned at what the equipment is capable of. It is hard to discover on your own.
2. Eventually, race. You will immediately go faster than you have ever gone before. I can't explain it, but I did and so many other people talk about how they did too. Very similar to #1
3. Take a school
4. Do NJMiniGP. It is a great way to find the boundaries of grip (and exceed them) in a low risk environment

Riding in your comfort zone in a track day may eventually make you faster, but it is much harder.

 

[Greg ZX6R]

Paging SlowSteve....I believe he had about the same number of Novice days that I had in the Intermediate group (20 something). Like Darrin said, eventually things will just "click", and a lot of it for me was familiarity with the bike; this is my 7th year on the same bike, and I feel like I know what it's going to do most of the time. Yesterday at Summit was a lot of fun riding with Judy and Darrin, and I was finally able to set a new personal best there by chasing Vinny (follow someone faster). Two more things that I think helped shave the time were trail braking harder into turns 1 and 10, and sliding just a bit more off the seat than usual. Toward the end of the day I tried to get on the gas a bit sooner, particularly out of turn 1, as I get beaten like a gong there by everyone. To me, confidence in the bike and tires is huge, as I've ridden my buddies' bikes for a session and crawl around the track due to the unfamiliarity. Keep plugging away, it'll come.

 

[Motofun352]

What's your 1st priority to a track day? There is no right answer to this question. For some hanging out in the paddock comes first, others it's riding, having fun but not risking too much...others are here to learn how to go as fast as they can. You must answer this question first before you decide what you need to do. No matter what answer you decide, cranking your anxiety up rarely improves your riding, so relax. I gave up on trying too hard to make it into the A group (3 crashes will do that to you) and decided to just have fun in I....shortly thereafter I got bumped to A, this is a not uncommon story.
Next take a thinking approach to the issue. Pick one or at most two corners in a lap and focus on these corners. Entrance, braking, apex, exit until you feel you have them nailed. Of course ask questions to the CR's on how they do it. Next session pick another two, then in the third session try linking the four without losing anything. On many tracks we ride, if you can do 6 corners well you can do a pretty good lap. At the Beav, for example, If you get 1/4/5/7 and 10 right you've a good lap.
This is just my approach, the fast guys may have a better way...

 

[prplppleatr239]

I did a total of 21 days in N before (finally!) getting bumped. It seems that things started to click a lot more when I started doing more days and riding more often. As part of that, make sure you get your money's worth and can ride a full session and a full day. If you're pushing yourself to the point that you get exhausted and have to pit in after 10 minutes, something's not right. Personally I found myself in that exact predicament, and fixed it with a combination of relaxing on the bike and improving my fitness off of it. Plus, the afternoon sessions are the best ones, as the natural attrition of others leaving early or getting bumped will clear up the track and leave more space.

Don't try to make big improvements in "scary" turns either - Just because somebody tells you they can keep the throttle pinned through a certain turn that you're braking early for doesn't mean you should do that next time out. Work on picking up speed and comfort gradually. Being loose and relaxed will make for an easier ride, which will cause you to be more comfortable, which will lead to going faster. Getting scared will cause you to tense up, hold on to the bars tighter, upset the bike, make you slower, and wear you out.

 

[Slow Steve]

I got to ride with you at Tbolt Monday in the very last session of the day (was in I cr'ing). The biggest thing, it appears you need to relax. How do your hands feel at the end of the sessions? I know I'm riding tense when my hands hurt or tingle. Also when you ride tense you end up fighting the bike and it feels like it doesn't respond to inputs. The biggest thing, HAVE FUN & don't get discouraged.

I did 26 N days over a 3 year period. I'm a slow learner. The real reason behind the "slow" Steve.

 

[smorourke]

All of the above.

Also - as Greg mentions above - trust in your bike and tires is very important. I know I had to get it through my head that my bike was/is way more capable of going way faster than I was/am riding it. As long as you are smooth with your inputs, your bike and tires can probably do it. Go just a bit faster 1 turn at a time and concentrate on doing everything as smoothly as possible even when your mind is telling you to panic....and when you make it out of the turn doing everything the CRs are telling you, you'll gain some confidence that those engineers built you a machine capable of some really impressive speeds

Also - make sure your vision is up and way ahead of you - then you won't feel the speed as much as younger now and help you stay relaxed.

And since no one here is going to be giving Marquez a challenge, just make sure you are having fun. At some point it will all start to come together...

See you out there...

 

[ninjamansc]

Wendy, I've seen your "stagnation" over the last year or so. Trusting the tires is of the utmost importance in progressing. I used to be scared of crashing EVERY SINGLE TURN. Use the best tires you can and trust them, provided you are smooth with your inputs. Another thing is vision. Look where you want to go. Your last couple crashes were due to fixation. Don't look where you don't want to go.

I'd be more than happy to go out without a shirt on with you (teehee) and give some pointers.

And don't worry about getting run into from behind (bwaha). If you are on the track, you should be willing to accept that risk. Find a rabbit (someone who is slightly faster than you) and concentrate on staying with them. As you get into the faster part of N, the g-force of the turn will make it much easier.

I know it's easier said than done, but it's all mental. Just scare yourself a little, and then you'll get comfortable with it.

 

[Evil Cupcake]

Wendy....I am so glad you came back out, especially after talking with you at New Jersey. I was really pleased with your smooth lines through the carousel T6-T9 on Monday and throughout the day you picked up your pace.

-Confidence in you goes a long way...mentally we can all psych ourselves out, or we can turn it into a positive and perform great feats.

 

[adotjdot]

Wendy, this is a great question and I am glad you asked. Lots of good feedback here from people. Motofun352 makes a great point about goals and what you want to get out of your riding. Whenever I work with the YCRS guys on improving my riding, one of the first things they ask me is "What are your goals?" This helps them focus their instruction on my individual needs.

Try not to focus so much on speed. Speed is an outcome of good technique. If you chase lap times or the idea of going faster, you lose focus on how to get there. Hitting your apexes, body position, smooth controls, eyes scanning...these are all tools you use to put the bike in the right place so that you can begin to add speed.

We all hit plateaus at times, and it can be difficult to identify what is holding us back. That is probably one of the most frustrating pieces of the puzzle. But you are doing the right thing, asking for help, trying to find an answer. Here's something to consider. Try signing up for one of the ATP days we offer. This will give you a chance to get more one on one time with an Instructor that will help you focus on what is holding you back. If you have the funding for it, sign up for a YCRS event. At a typical track day we can help you in small slices, but to have a coach dedicated to working with you for a whole day you can better identify what you need to work on.

As Slow Steve said, "you need to relax." Being able to relax while you are riding is a huge part of going faster. You will still have to put effort into your riding and exert energy to apply technique, but being able to relax AS you apply that technique will allow you to focus on your apexes, being smooth on the controls. All of those other thoughts and worries about your pace, about getting hit from behind, about crashing, they start to disappear as your focus turns to applying proper technique.

Hope to see you out there again soon and like all of our other CRs, more than happy to work with you at the track!

 

[trekuhl]

wendy. its because you want the baby taco. admit it

 

[vinny337]

Weeeeeennnnnndy ok, continue to work on the basics again and again. People improve on different levels, also know there is always someone faster than you, young old it doesn't matter. Continue to work on the basics and you will improve in time.

 

[CBRtist]

Wow. Incredible thanks to each and every ONE of you for taking the time to chime in with pointers, some I knew, some I'm digesting... and digesting some more after viewing pics. Priorities are relaxing, looking further ahead, smoother controls, and tire trust. In theory it's all good in my head, in practice... a challenge. I'm hoping some other members with similar struggles will get a lot out of what was posted here too.

Would love YCRS... a school... ATP... but unfortunately, my finance charges continue to work against me

I'd be more than happy to go out without a shirt on with you (teehee) and give some pointers.

Well when you put it that way Steve, how can a girl resist? lol You're ON Sir!

wendy. its because you want the baby taco. admit it

Took a "WT...?" and 2 seconds on this til I started spitting potato chips. Damn. Cover blown.

 

[CBRtist]

And we gotta get Ria and Alex together to ride in Sept. I think she may inspire him to start to learn to ride without training wheels.

Sorry they never got to connect. Another TD perhaps.

I spoke to your wife. She told me he's only been riding for a month. He's doing well. Ria was riding that bike since she was 3 and when she turned 7 just felt it was ridiculous she had training wheels on it, so they got popped off and off she went. I'm sure once he has all the controls down, you'll be doing the same really soon! Great job Alex!

 

[vinny337]

I was finally able to set a new personal best

You were looking good out there Bro!!

 

[physicistkev]

Speed on the track is all about comfort. The more comfortable you are the faster you are going to go. Yes, proper techniques must be learned and used, but from my experience and what I have seen, its 90% in your head.

My history, I started in Intermediate on my 1990 GSXR, somewhere around 2005/6. I was in Intermediate a total of 3 days. Yes, 3 days. I got the bump to A at the end of the 3rd day. I was bumped the same time frame, next trackday I believe, after Troy (Landshark) was. I was riding a lot with him at the time.

Now, before I start to get crap thrown at me, I was on a bike I had owned and ridden for 10 years. I was intimately familiar with how the bike acted in most conceivable situations, so it was easy for me to push my limits, because I understood the bikes limits. I had also been to the track about 9 times prior to joining Nesba, so I had a decent amount of track experience.

I am now on my second bike after my old 1990 GSXR. I had an 06 ZX6R and now an 07 GSXR 750. I have yet to turn a lap faster at Summit Main than I did on my 1990. Let that soak in. A 500+ pound motorcycle that went like stink and had surprisingly good brakes, but was a nightmare to try and change direction on. I still haven't turned a lap quicker at Summit on way more modern equipment.

You think the bike is my limiting factor? Not a chance.

I believe that I am limited by my brain and the comfort level I attain at my speed. Lets face it. If your scared, your hardly going to relax and be smooth. When you try to focus on one thing, you can see your mind deal with the discomfort (fear) and move beyond your current plateau for that narrow situation.

I have some examples.

I have a place where I started to work on my fear of high speed to hairpin. Heavy braking to a slow, sharp corner. I picked turn one at Summit, due to the easy escape route to the left if you screw it up. I tried to go later and later into the braking zone. Not without braking, just start braking harder later. I still grab the front brake at the same time, just before the first brake marker, but I don't really haul on the anchors until the second marker. On subsequent laps, I tried to go a little further. A few feet at a time. Every time I did this, my brain realizes "Yeah, I can brake here and still make the corner". Once you get comfortable doing this, it becomes less scary and more the norm. This comfort translates to other similar corners without having to do the incremental steps. You start to sense how hard you can brake from feeling and perception alone. (You still need reference points!!! You just gain them quicker) This works great for other corners that are similar, Barber's turn 5 for example. Ask Tomseviltwin about that corner. It doesn't help me in 6, 7 and 8 of Summit, where I still struggle.

The VIR North "straight", which isn't very straight. It took me 3 days to get comfortable with holding it wide open from the exit of the hogpen to the braking zone of turn 1. Each time I went through, I got a bit closer to wide open. Then I would get passed, or hit a bump or something and get spooked. I would take a few steps back and have to work my way up again. Now, I don't even think about it. I pass people on the outside, on the inside, all over on the "straight" without lifting. As long as I can get passed them without upsetting them or startling them, I'm game. If I'm by myself, I'm wishing for a few more mph trying to twist the throttle passed the stop.

This is all due to comfort. Keeping that little voice of doubt at bay when you are pushing the limit of your comfort zone. That's how you make progress. I haven't done any of the advanced schools, but I assume that many of the things they teach you are about getting you more comfortable in a given situation. The more comfortable you are, the smoother you are. When you are smooth, it's easier to see where you can go faster.

This is very easy to say and talk about, but it's very hard to do. Sometimes you just want to have fun on the track, sometimes you learn to go faster because of this. Sometimes you develop or bring back bad habits. Working hard at the track is difficult sometimes. And sometimes it's not. In the end, there are plenty of people that can and are willing to help. Just come find us

 

[Bubba Zanetti]

Wendy:

As others have stated, many of us have been in your position. What's holding you back? Could be many things. I rode for 5 years and just couldn't get faster. Took a few classes and that helped, but still in B group.

Oddly, what was holding me back was the bike I rode. I just had zero confidence in its capabilities. Much of the feedback people talked about their bikes I could never feel on the 97 VFR I rode. The machine just felt vague all the time. I had suspension work done, fiddled with it and still nothing. It did make it better, but it wasn't what I needed. After much discussion with people much more experienced than me I picked up the TZ125 and 6-7 days later was in I-group. I needed a machine that would give me feedback and require a intense focus to go fast on.

I know I am a bit of an anomaly as its usually the other way around for riders. They have a mental block and the bike is fine, especially if you are riding a newer R6 or other super sport. I learn in an odd way and the bike was my barrier.

My last track day at NJMP I was picking up speed I didn't know I had. It was a glorious day...like my first day, its the other day that lives on in my memories. I had much more speed to go and all the other things riders have said became true.

Keep at it Wendy, it will come.

BZ