How much would you spend on your street bike before considering a track bike?

[afinepoint]

A co worker and I had an interesting conversation. Spend 1000s ($5000 to be exact) to beef your daily rider for the track or purchase a dedicated one?

What brought this on was we were looking at a supercharger kit for the VFRs. It's not availble for the 6th generation - mine but will be soon. His point was for $5000 you would have a even more capable track machine vice spending more for a track bike.

I still feel a dedicated bike is the way to go if doing more than ocassional track days. You have a platform for experimentation, the bike is always track ready, if dropped it's not your $treet machine.

I know my VFR is heavy. Although heavier a Yamaha Riding school instructor stated the VFR is a capable motorcycle and I didn't need a track bike. I am sure he meant "for now".

I want a new(er)R1 or 1000RR and I know I can't buy those for 5K.

So what's the dollar threshold out there for making the jump to a dedicated bike? Or is it more a practical and deliberate decision?

Reg

 

[Garrison]

I bought an ex ama race bike with a good portion of the goodies still on it for $3500.
Why do you need to beef a V4? I was under the impression they were very powerful motors.

Also, for a track bike, I would recommend going no higher than a 750 to start off with. You can get an 03-06 bike for $3000 now and I would say that would be the way to go, dollars-to-donuts you'll have more fun on a bike you know you can bin and not be out $2000 for new parts.

 

[HondaGalToo]

Depends on the bike. Personally, I wouldn't like my VFR on the track (Gen 5). It would need too much suspension work to make it good (not that I didn't do that to my 600), but it's heavy, and it has linked brakes. No thanks! I love it as a sporty tourer, with the emphasis on sporty, but I'd personally rather have something smaller and lighter for the track. Spend 5 grand on a VFR for the track? No way. For that price you could get a really nice 600 machine.

 

[afinepoint]

Garrison;141430 wrote: Why do you need to beef a V4? I was under the impression they were very powerful motors.

True but the bike is heavy. As always it's about power/weight.

Reg

 

[afinepoint]

HondaGalToo;141431 wrote: For that price you could get a really nice 600 machine.

Good thought but I want to go 1 liter.

Reg

 

[HondaGalToo]

afinepoint;141438 wrote: Good thought but I want to go 1 liter.

Reg

For a track only bike, why? Just curious. Are you relatively new to this? You'd learn more on a smaller machine.

 

[slowhare]

I've ridden my 07VFR at R. Atl. and it was a lot of fun and I didn't know any better (1st track day), until I rode an 02 CBR 954 on Sunday(2nd)... the CBR was not only more powerful, but turned a lot, lot better.

As for liter vs. 600, the only place that the power of the liter bike was a huge advantage was the long straights. I probably could have been quicker on a 600 on a decent portion of the track. (note, this is at my skill level, may not be true for the faster guys) My point is you can't ignore the handling, and that to me, it is much more important than the raw power.

In my opinion, the VFR handles fine and has plenty of power for the street and is comfortable for a lot longer than the CBR and therefore a great bike for a wide range of use, and is capable enough for a fun day at the track, but if you want to get seriously into doing track days, then you need serious track day equipment.

--besides, if (when?) you crash, you'll feel alot worse bouncing you beautiful VFR off the ground than you will a dedicated track bike that just needs a new set of shark skins and some rear sets.

 

[afinepoint]

This thread is making an unplanned lane change but that's OK. Slowhare you address one of my points in your last paragraph.

HondaGalToo;141479 wrote: For a track only bike, why? Just curious. Are you relatively new to this? You'd learn more on a smaller machine.

You make a good point

Addressing this remark I like the larger bikes and with retirement not so far away I am budget conscious as well. I am new to this and it must show but I don't want to have to buy another bike later on after the 600. Unless something magical happens and my skills begin to grow exponentially my next (sport) bike will be my last.

Listening at the track it seems the only way to reduce lap times after their corning skills have taken them as far as they can go is for a rider to move up in CCs. Buying a 600 and then later a 1000 just doesn't fit into my current finances. I am also 205lbs. Hp/weight can not be ignored regarding performance.

As I said I like the big bikes. However irrational that may seem. There is a challenge and feeling of accomplishment carving out the turns on a heavier machine and then having the acceleration to lead or leave the pack on the exit and down the straightway. Riding my VFR I can only know the former. On an R1 I knew both.

Maybe for my August days at VIR I might try to do an R6 demo. That way at least I tried one.

Having ridden the YZF-R1 I would buy it tomorrow if I could.

Thanks again HondaGalToo and Slowhare I hear you and do appreciate the feedback.

Reg

 

[greeny]

afinepoint;141511 wrote: This thread is making an unplanned lane change but that's OK. Slowhare you address one of my points in your last paragraph.



You make a good point

Addressing this remark I like the larger bikes and with retirement not so far away I am budget conscious as well. I am new to this and it must show but I don't want to have to buy another bike later on after the 600. Unless something magical happens and my skills begin to grow exponentially my next (sport) bike will be my last.

Listening at the track it seems the only way to reduce lap times after their corning skills have taken them as far as they can go is for a rider to move up in CCs. Buying a 600 and then later a 1000 just doesn't fit into my current finances. I am also 205lbs. Hp/weight can not be ignored regarding performance.

As I said I like the big bikes. However irrational that may seem. There is a challenge and feeling of accomplishment carving out the turns on a heavier machine and then having the acceleration to lead or leave the pack on the exit and down the straightway. Riding my VFR I can only know the former. On an R1 I knew both.

Maybe for my August days at VIR I might try to do an R6 demo. That way at least I tried one.

Having ridden the YZF-R1 I would buy it tomorrow if I could.

Thanks again HondaGalToo and Slowhare I hear you and do appreciate the feedback.

Reg

trent? is that you?!

start at post #495 and keep reading... or just start from the beginning if you have a vacation week saved up at work you can cash in:

http://tracktalk.nesba.com/showthread.php?t=7738&page=50

you can try and rationalize a bigger bike a million different ways - but that doesn't mean it's the best choice. or even a good one...

 

[fitz]

afinepoint;141511 wrote: There is a challenge and feeling of accomplishment carving out the turns on a heavier machine and then having the acceleration to lead or leave the pack on the exit and down the straightway.

So this is what you guys are feeling when you park it in the turns and then blast down the straights----accomplishment.

That "pack" you just left is feeling something different. :argh:

fitz

 

[HondaGalToo]

I dunno about advanced riders getting increased laptimes on a liter bike compared to a 600. Seems to me that the info I've read on the AMA pro racers suggests that their laptimes on 1000 cc and 600 cc machines are about the same. To me, the fun part is learning to go faster in and out of corners, not blasting the straights. A couple of years ago, my trackbike was a CBR929 that was piped and mapped at 138 hp. I now have a gsxr 600, about 104 hp. My laptimes are the same or better on the 600. I honestly don't notice the lesser power, even on the tracks with long straights, nor do I miss it. I do like the increased confidence not having to worry as much about launching myself to the moon by too much throttle on corner exit.

I do understand the part about not wanting to get a 600 now, only to be looking for a 1000 street machine later. However, if you purchase a good, used, already-track prepped 600 now, use it for a few years, then you could sell it and then get a nice street machine. You already have a nice street machine in your VFR.

Alternatively, the best of both worlds would be a gxsr750.

There's lots of big guys on 600s riding very, very fast. Several CRs come to mind. So, you don't need a liter bike based on your weight. I hear that excuse from new riders on various motorcycle boards all the time, justifying why they need a liter bike for their first bike. No offense, and that scenerio doesn't exactly apply to you.

Good luck with whatever you decide! You'll enjoy either on the track, as either choice will handle better than your VFR.

Stop by and say hello if you ride at NJMP, Summit, or BeaveRun, I'm at most of those events.

 

[Fastguy]

You indicated in an earlier post that you worried about finances later on. The one thing that you will discover as your speeds increase is that the 1000 will become a tire eater! We're talking a rear tire every trackday or two. That's one of the reasons alot of guys have indicated that they have gone down to the smaller cc bikes.

Make sure that you've considered that aspect.

 

[rk97]

afinepoint;141426 wrote: A co worker and I had an interesting conversation. Spend 1000s ($5000 to be exact) to beef your daily rider for the track or purchase a dedicated one?

[...]

So what's the dollar threshold out there for making the jump to a dedicated bike? Or is it more a practical and deliberate decision?

Finances are a variable that only you can determine. I couldn't DREAM of spending $5k on a bike, let alone $5k upgrading one! My street bike and track bike combined didn't cost $5k.

from where i'm sitting, $5k buys a nice track bike. I won't try to tell you that a liter bike isn't a good choice for you, but it WILL cost you more. To purchase, in fuel, in tires, and possibly in crashes (not that you can't highside a 600). My only advice is that if you do decide to get a dedicated track bike, no matter what it is, buy one that's already got the upgrades on it. I really struggle to understand the logic behind buying a street bike with track bodywork. The value of a track bike is in the upgrades - otherwise you could just ride a street bike naked, or with track bodywork. And that's a fine option if budget requires, but $5k would buy some REALLY nice bodywork

 

[fitz]

HondaGalToo;141595 wrote: There's lots of big guys on 600s riding very, very fast.

So true!

I was behind a big fella (250+?) at VIR full last weekend, had some of my best laps trying to keep up with him. After the session I was like "Dude, you really know how to ride that 1 litter!" he said "That's what everyone thinks, but it's a 600". :wow:

Really nice kid.

 

[phoenix]

afinepoint;141511 wrote: Listening at the track it seems the only way to reduce lap times after their corning skills have taken them as far as they can go is for a rider to move up in CCs. Buying a 600 and then later a 1000 just doesn't fit into my current finances. I am also 205lbs. Hp/weight can not be ignored regarding performance.

cornering skill development is almost never ending. Maybe it has ended for Valentino or Jorge, but doubtful the rest of us mortals will ever get there.

I see lots of guys getting an SV650 for the track. Control riders included. Cornering speed is really emphasized on them. Screw the strait-away speed (not that you can't go fast on them), that ain't no challenge. You will not outgrow it. And they are very economical on tires and such.

 

[avizpls]

I think whateveryone is trying to tell you is that even thought you WANT a 1000 now, in a season of days on a 600 you'll know better.

that said, to opine on the topic of the thread...

I bought a motorcycle for the street, and ended up tracking it. When it was becoming to much of a trackbike and a hassle on the street, I bought a second bike. Money is something only you can factor-unless you post your income and monthly budget...

 

[afinepoint]

greeny;141559 wrote: trent? is that you?!

start at post #495 and keep reading... or just start from the beginning if you have a vacation week saved up at work you can cash in:

http://tracktalk.nesba.com/showthread.php?t=7738&page=50

you can try and rationalize a bigger bike a million different ways - but that doesn't mean it's the best choice. or even a good one...
A very good thread. I haven't finished reading it but the advice from the CR's seem in agreement with what John Allen Sourtheast Region CR states:

JRA;139436 wrote: There is a bottom line here and it's that a 1000 is much harder to ride...Period. They are bikes best suited for experts...Period. They will high side you much more often than a 600...Period.

There is no denying that any riders best chance for doing that long term is to start with a small bike when they are learning, and only move to larger bikes as their skills really progress. The skills you learn on small bike will teach you how to get fast with the biggest margin for error. These skills will also help prepare you for riding a bigger bike later on.

Sure, some guys can start big and not crash a whole lot, but based on what I've personally observed that is a small minority. They really have to either have a lot of natural talent or really be able to keep their enthusiasm in check.

To anyone else reading this thread take this advice to heart...if you want to really be good in this sport and be around it for a long time, start with a 600 or smaller.

I will definitely think about this. It's not an ego thing in that I have to ride a big bike. I just like the feel and looks of one.

Reg

 

[dlockhart5x]

I decided right off the bat to get a track bike. And I with some research and encouragemant I picked a Aprillia Cup bike. (I alway loved seeing the 250 gp bikes, true exotics were much more alluring than superbikes.)

I spent a lot of time lurking and searching the beeb. I found a few sayings that relate well to the topic.

"ride the smallest bike your ego will allow"
and
"it is more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than a fast bike slow"

I started years ago in B on my 60 hp RS250 cup bike. I am still learning a lot each time I ride that same bike. I'm a normal size 200lb. guy and it's not the bike holding me back.

Often here or on the WERA beeb, the what bike to start on ? gets asked and nearly every experienced rider racer chimes in with "get a SV"


Some take the advice. :banghead:

 

[avizpls]

dlockhart5x;141725 wrote: "get a SV"


Some take the advice. :banghead:

so...is that bad advice you think?

 

[dlockhart5x]

avizpls;141728 wrote: so...is that bad advice you think?

The head bang is at how often it is asked and how often the advice ignored.