laptime difference between 1000 and 600's

[noobinacan]

Don't want to spark the whole 1000 vs 600 debate again.
but, just out of curiosity, a question to those who know how to ride both and have a consistent pace.
What was your difference in laptimes for say VIR-North or Road Atlanta between the two bikes ?


say at a given track; one day, you were riding the 600 and putting down 1:38's and another day, 1:32's on the liter bike.

is there a magic number there, like 5-6 seconds ?

 

[LesPow]

Road Atl is a 1000 track for sure, the back straight is wicked fast, but I rode both RA and VIR on 6's so ?? Could assume your estimated times are correct, the AMA guys are 3-5 secs bet. both classes at any given track.

 

[vinny337]

I rode VIR but never had the chance to ride RA, yet...I'll experience it this year, so I'll use NJMP as an example from me riding 1000:

Lighting 2 seconds faster than on my 600
on Thunderbolt 2 seconds slower than on my 600.

I found myself not making any real progress riding the 1000 then back on the 600, as a result the 1000 is sold. . The tracks you ride will make the difference, although I'm not sure you'll see 5-6 seconds difference between the two bikes, but then again anything is possible....

 

[Dave561]

To see the capability of the two bikes, its probably best to look at AMA times for the tracks of interest. As for you on the bike, only one way to truly know, but generally the average rider is not capable of using all the extra power in the 1000.

 

[noobinacan]

thanks...yeah, was thinking along the same lines you all are saying.
just curious on the topic if there is a time to graduate to a 1000cc bike and apply everything you have learned from the 600 to it ?
or do you re-learn how to ride the 1000 (stand it up and shoot) vs more corner speed and flowing lines of a 600 ?

or do you keep one of each in the stable and pick one ?
I know a lot of folks have gone back to 600's just cause they're having more fun on those.

cause I'd definitely like to experience riding a superbike...flat out! opcorn:

 

[Turbo329]

vinny337;234778 wrote: I rode VIR but never had the chance to ride RA, yet...I'll experience it this year, so I'll use NJMP as an example from me riding 1000:

Lighting 2 seconds faster than on my 600
on Thunderbolt 2 seconds slower than on my 600.

I found myself not making any real progress riding the 1000 then back on the 600, as a result the 1000 is sold. . The tracks you ride will make the difference, although I'm not sure you'll see 5-6 seconds difference between the two bikes, but then again anything is possible....

Lots of guys are faster on their 600s at Thunderbolt. A friend of mine runs consistent 1:29s at Thunderbolt on his R6 and runs 1:31s on his R1.

But at the pro level the 600s run 1:26s-1:27s and the 1000s run 1:20s-1:23s I think. Weird.

 

[speedster_chris]

It also depends a bit on your style of riding. You may naturally have a better fit to one over the other, but that's certainly not to say that you can't go plenty fast on a 600. When they've ridden with us, the AMA 600 riders like Huntley Nash and Cory West don't seem to have trouble getting by anyone in A group, 1000's or 600's!!!

I ride a 1000 because I like the challenge of the extra weight and using all that power, which makes it a lot of fun. So, I'd say it depends on you (the rider) and the track. I don't think the AMA times are truly apples to apples, as the 1000's are allowed to have more mods than the 600s, but it's close enough.

 

[Otto Man]

It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than a fast bike slow.

I have no problems admitting my ZX10 was too much to handle at the track. Hoping the 636 will let me work on my skills while still able to go pretty fast...

 

[speedster_chris]

I would generally agree. To be honest, I'm never going to be able to ride any bike as fast as it can go, which is why I have no sponsorship packages that pay me to ride. I'd have fun riding any bike. It just so happens that at the moment I have a 1000, which is fun to ride in different ways than the 600. I've had to work to go faster on a 10R than a 6RR, but I know that I'm a better rider for it now that I've surpassed where I was in terms of laptimes. But, those laptimes are because of rider progress, not because I'm on a 1000!!

But we digress...

 

[stow]

noobinacan;234909 wrote: thanks...yeah, was thinking along the same lines you all are saying.
just curious on the topic if there is a time to graduate to a 1000cc bike and apply everything you have learned from the 600 to it ?

cause I'd definitely like to experience riding a superbike...flat out! opcorn:

You are not allowed to get a 1000cc bike. You must submit for Regional Director approval first. The approval process requires 20 CR signatures as well.

 

[fitz]

This is a good thread, I'm always curious about the differences between a 600 and a 1000 so I've watched closely over the years opinions from people that have tried both. Hard facts from the racers vs subjective opinions from our fellow trackday peers (more important IMO).

The ones that have ridden both and could ride ANY bike they want, choose to ride an R6.

So there you go, just buy an R6

fitz

 

[Buckeye96]

I want to say the record differences at Jennings are 6 seconds. I think its 1:13 on a 1000 and 1:18-1:20 on a 600.

 

[some guy #2]

Depends on the track and I wouldn't look at AMA or even expert lap times since that is way over the head of most of us. At every track I've been to my buddy on a 600 (I ride a 1000) is right there behind or in front of me unless we get to a straight section. It's not the bike, it's the rider.

 

[speedster_chris]

some guy #2;234985 wrote: It's not the bike, it's the rider.

:agree: True story!

 

[Matt H]

Lots of good thoughts.

The value of looking at the AMA lap times is that, theoretically, these riders are actually using all/most of what the bikes are capable of. So, the lap time difference should actually show the difference in lap times due to the bike. However, the lap times difference at track days and club racing show that none of us are near the capabilities of either - so it's all rider at this level that makes the difference in lap times. Both will do so much more than we ask of them.

So for us at this level, ride whichever you want. The rider will be the bigger difference at our level. Some like wringing the neck of a 600 and get a huge smile pushing it where ever they want - like they own it and it bends to your will and you're just asking it for more; some like trying to harness the 1000 and hold on with a shit-eating grin from the pure power - like the satisfaction of holding on and taming a bull. They are different to ride, and do things differently. (but also fundamentally, you're going to use the same skills to get around the track no matter).

1000's can be less forgiving on newbies, and certainly harder on the wallet with tires, for what it's worth. But the most important thing is "have fun". Ride whatever gives you, personally, the biggest smile at the end of the day.

 

[AdrenalinPlease]

I rode a 1K for the first 2 years of track time, this year I am going to a 750. Peer pressure.

 

[PawPaw]

Or just everybody get a GSXR-750 and get the best of both worlds!

 

[noobinacan]

some guy #2;234985 wrote: Depends on the track and I wouldn't look at AMA or even expert lap times since that is way over the head of most of us. At every track I've been to my buddy on a 600 (I ride a 1000) is right there behind or in front of me unless we get to a straight section. It's not the bike, it's the rider.


stow;234970 wrote: You are not allowed to get a 1000cc bike. You must submit for Regional Director approval first. The approval process requires 20 CR signatures as well.

lol dude
nah, I think the posts in this thread re-confirm something i felt already. great dialogue...
makes me want to remain with the 600 and just enjoy it for what it is.

 

[JLove]

If I could do it all over again, I would start with a 600. But I am balls-deep into it now with my 1000s and I am happy.

 

[wallacew]

ditto what others have said. At OUR level, riding style, comfort, and tracks all play a large part. 600 and liter bike times can be very close. However, the learning curve can be easier if you start on a smaller bike. Speed increases so fast on today's liter bikes, it's hard to get over the sensation of pending death, and learn. Most find themselves braking waaaaay too much waaaay too soon. its usually because of the sensation od speed is so much greater.