Lets talk braking

devildogae

devildogae

Member
Ok so VIR South was my second track day and I felt really good, all except being real slow. So what I was doing was slowing down way before the turn, and guys were blasting by me on the straights. I guess I wasn't comfortable going really fast and having to she'd of tons of speed, but everyone else seemed to be good with it. When I attempted to do same, just really made me nervous and kinda target fixate on the corner, very bad! So I'd like some braking advise. Does it always feel like your almost going over the front? I had to trail brake going into some corners learning the track, not because I wanted to work on it, but outta necessity. Late in the day, a guy told me to apply the front brake gently at first to let it grip and settle, then apply hard braking.

I want to learn how to late brake...
 
shad0ws

shad0ws

New Member
What helped me is to pick a turn that scares you the most and pick a braking marker on the track. It may be a tree or even a crack in the pavement just use that marker to let you know it time to get off the gas and get on the brakes. Slowly work on moving your braking marker closer and closer to the trim as you gain confidence in yourself and the bike. Eventually this build confidence through out the whole track and if you have another corner that stumbles you just do the same. It's a slow process but it helps build confidence.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk 2
 
devildogae

devildogae

Member
shad0ws;279341 wrote: What helped me is to pick a turn that scares you the most and pick a braking marker on the track. It may be a tree or even a crack in the pavement just use that marker to let you know it time to get off the gas and get on the brakes. Slowly work on moving your braking marker closer and closer to the trim as you gain confidence in yourself and the bike. Eventually this build confidence through out the whole track and if you have another corner that stumbles you just do the same. It's a slow process but it helps build confidence.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
That's some great advise, I will remember that for next time...
 
HondaGalToo

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
Also, instead of "late braking", brake longer and lighter into the turn. Find a brake marker as stated above. If you're not comfortable with moving that brake marker closer to the turn, use the same one, but apply the brakes a little lighter. You should never grab or stab at your brakes, it should be a constant, smooth application. Yes, set the brake first, prior to squeezing it harder. Try to leave a little bit of pressure on past the turn in point. Heavy braking is done when the bike is straight up and down, then you trail off, decreasing brake pressure as you add lean angle.

Still working on trail braking myself, as I still tend to over-brake.:rolleyes:
 
devildogae

devildogae

Member
HondaGalToo;279395 wrote: Also, instead of "late braking", brake longer and lighter into the turn. Find a brake marker as stated above. If you're not comfortable with moving that brake marker closer to the turn, use the same one, but apply the brakes a little lighter. You should never grab or stab at your brakes, it should be a constant, smooth application. Yes, set the brake first, prior to squeezing it harder. Try to leave a little bit of pressure on past the turn in point. Heavy braking is done when the bike is straight up and down, then you trail off, decreasing brake pressure as you add lean angle.

Still working on trail braking myself, as I still tend to over-brake.:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Ok, so setting the brake is correct! That's good to know, I tried to do that after I was told, and it did make the front end less chatter when I was applying great pressure. I love the idea of the brake marker! I think that will help a lot and then bringing it in will help my confidence and comfort. I guess I should be using trail braking on the big turns for sure.
 
HondaGalToo

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
As they say at YCRS "load the tire before you work the tire". The tires can handle a large load, but they can't handle an abrupt load. Be smooth with all actions, brake, throttle, and steering.

Yes, learn trailbraking. I just started a couple of seasons ago and wish I'd had someone teach it to me sooner. Think of it as trailing off the brakes as you enter a turn.
 
matt2212

matt2212

Member
You have gotten lots of good advice here so far

first you should have a marker for every thing on the track, Braking, turn in, apex, and exit. This is a work in progress for me as well and as you get quicker they will change but you should have a base map

The post above about setting the front is spot on, furthermore you should time it so when you let off the throttle you are slowly applying the brake to use the momentum shift of the bike to set the front. the idea is for it to be one movement of your axis from accelerating to decelerating (not throttle on, throttle off, front suspension compresses, front suspension rebounds, brake on, front suspension compresses, let brake off, front suspension rebounds, turn in front suspension compresses) It should be Throttle smoothly applied, as the throttle is cut brakes are simultaneously applied, and held (trail braking) to apex. Trail braking helps to hold the suspension compressed and as you turn in and modulate the brakes the "duty" of compressing the front suspension is transfered from the brakes to the force generated by the turn

There was a video floating around of JRA at Road A last year that demonstrated this and how smoothly it can be done maybe he will post it you can see how smooth he is and how settled his bike stays
 
C

Chad Dupree

New Member
You need to look thru the corner and not right infront of you. Looking thru the corner will slow things down visually.

As everyone else has said, you need markers on the track as well, but most beginners I find tend to look right infront of them instead of thru the corner.
 
M

moto1320

Member
From another B guy who can still clearly remember this important disconnect: One of the things I had a hard time getting around in the beginning was understanding just how much the process of turning slows you down. Either of the two reputable riding schools I know of that run at VIR (CSS and Cornerspeed) will start the first half of your day with you turning sessions without touching the brakes. This will be eye opening for just how much the corner slows you down. You'll think you're coming in hot and find yourself having to pick the throttle up right away because your parking in the corner. IMO, in the beginning, a ton of what holds you back is perception. Another Code school is coming up in a month or so and I think Cornerspeed has some more too. I wish I had gone in the beginning. It gets your head around things fast that you flirt with slowly if left to your own devices. my .02
 
noobinacan

noobinacan

Member
devildogae;279335 wrote: Ok so VIR South was my second track day and I felt really good, all except being real slow. So what I was doing was slowing down way before the turn, and guys were blasting by me on the straights. I guess I wasn't comfortable going really fast and having to she'd of tons of speed, but everyone else seemed to be good with it. When I attempted to do same, just really made me nervous and kinda target fixate on the corner, very bad! So I'd like some braking advise. Does it always feel like your almost going over the front? I had to trail brake going into some corners learning the track, not because I wanted to work on it, but outta necessity. Late in the day, a guy told me to apply the front brake gently at first to let it grip and settle, then apply hard braking.

I want to learn how to late brake...
Click to expand...
you need brake markers ...and to lift your eyes and look at the apex, not in front of you.
also seems like you're crowding the tank...and need to keep your arms loose, if you stiffen your arms, bike will stoppie.
Use your lower body to brace vs arms

I run SBS dual carbons...and you can grab a handful at the marker...depending on how your suspension is setup.
so to speak
Not so much if you are running high initial bike pad like Vesrahs or Ferodo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlfN9Z6IlI0


and some of the above info maybe repeat...as people have already mentioned it.
 
B

booboo1

New Member
If you ever get the chance to run a Supermoto around a gokart track or wherever. In can teach you trail braking in a hurry, My bike has a super brembo setup on it. Husky 510smr. 250lbs. Holy crap, because of the light weight bike and super brakes, give you much confidence quick. Then apply that to your track bike. Just an easier leaning curve at less speeds. God I love that bike.
 
T

TonyR

New Member
Chad Dupree;279449 wrote: You need to look thru the corner and not right infront of you. Looking thru the corner will slow things down visually.

As everyone else has said, you need markers on the track as well, but most beginners I find tend to look right infront of them instead of thru the corner.
Click to expand...
I couldn't agree more. Every time I find myself struggling I force myself to turn my head and look up track and things get better.
 
daddyfriedrich

daddyfriedrich

Member
Chad Dupree;279449 wrote: You need to look thru the corner and not right infront of you. Looking thru the corner will slow things down visually.

As everyone else has said, you need markers on the track as well, but most beginners I find tend to look right infront of them instead of thru the corner.
Click to expand...
Sooooooooooooooo true. My kid did VIR North last year as a introductory thing only. Had his nose up the CR's butt the whole time. Reason? Vision. Always looking down track. (Being oblivious to danger doesn't hurt either LOL)
 
kubricky

kubricky

Control Rider
Director
One of the things I suggest that folks do is go out on the track, do a few laps (2 to 3 are fine) and then pick a corner after a long-ish straight. As you approach that corner on lap x (after 2 or 3 laps in) and using a mark slightly preceding what you have used for the preceding laps, set the front [suspension] then increase the pressure to a point at which you are comfortable, continue this braking until you have reached YOUR turn-in speed. In doing so, you will see that you are likely far, far from the actual turn-in point. Smoothly come back on the gas and take yourself through the corner.

What you are trying to see here are three VERY important things: 1. You must have reference points to be CONSISTENT and REMAIN SMOOTH as you go faster. 2. Sportbike brakes work very well and they will not dump you over the bars (when used properly) IF you are smooth to apply [set], and progressively get to your maximum braking (regressive braking is the second part of the equation and extremely important to "trail braking"). 3. You can brake lighter and longer BUT the caution is that this technique takes time to develop (and sometimes an explanation). But the "brake later" thing that everyone throws out can at least be visualized here. That said, the way to smooth and fast is exactly what has been said above brake LIGHTER for LONGER.

So the way to really learn from this exercise is to then USE THE SAME braking marker (REFERENCE POINT) and work on braking LIGHTER to get to YOUR turn in point at the SPEED you are comfortable. This is step one. Step two is to then push that braking marker FORWARD 20 ft (NO MORE) and use the same braking techniques to get the bike to the proper speed. This develops the skill while also allowing you to build your entry speed progressively AS YOU LEARN PROPER BRAKING TECHNIQUES. So as you set the brakes a little later, you ay have to use more brake pressure, though it still won't be the harsh braking habits of some. The pros use this technique, and while they are on the edge of their brakes, they are also very deliberate in how they set and apply the brakes. They are braking LIGHTER, however the amount of braking they need is very great, and it is relative.

USE ONE TURN

AND ALWAYS ASSURE YOU start the drill 2 - 4 laps in. (reason is the first few laps you may come out of the last turn slower than with open track, etc., so just be cognizant of braking markers and your speed as you approach the turn you are using. This also has to do with brake marker/cone setup, using "fixed reference points" is always best but if you are using brake boards or cones just be sure they are set up the same way they were the last time you used them.

If it doesn't make sense, hit me up, but I've suggested that many try it and I've gotten good feedback and I know some of other CRs (much faster and smoother than I) have their own similar "drill" and can help explain as well.
 
devildogae

devildogae

Member
Thanks, I am going to try and put that to use, I might have to study what you wrote until I don't have to think about it, but you have to start somewhere. Thanks!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top