Lithium Polymer batteries- Who's got experience with one?

[afinepoint]

The GSXR-750 needs a new battery and since I can't seem to shed a few lbs - it's all my wife's (cooking) fault I thought the bike might. Anyone running with a Li Po battery or used one care to chime in?

I've read the advantages vs disadvantages. Looking for real life feedback. For instance, is the engine really harder to spin when the battery is cold? Manufacturer? Anyone bought a battery by Antigravity Battery?

Thanks

Reg

 

[Dave561]

Always keep a tender on you if you buy one. I've had two differnet brands and my next battery will be a std yuasa battery. The minimal savings IS NoT worth the aggravation in my experience.

 

[JGardy_781]

Dave561;270926 wrote: Always keep a tender on you if you buy one. I've had two differnet brands and my next battery will be a std yuasa battery. The minimal savings IS NoT worth the aggravation in my experience.

Interesting... I've been thinking about getting a fancy new light battery for my ol' pig of a 750 (and my WR250F, for that matter) - your experience worries me some...

 

[Andymax]

Lithium Polymer (Li-Po) is not the technology you want for this. >Most< LiPO batteries are made with cheap chinese cells. The internal resistance is typically horrible which creates heat under large current draw such as starting. Heat destroys batteries.

The battery technology to look for is LiFePO4...Lithium Iron Phosphate. Look for one assembled in the USA and with a good warranty. In the interest of full disclosure, I run the old lead acid, but only because I'm too cheap to replace a perfectly good battery. However, I've been in the battery business in one form or another for about 25 years.

A good LiFePO4 battery will outlast a lead-acid by a huge margin...but it won't be cheap to buy a good one.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[JGardy_781]

Andymax;271271 wrote: Lithium Polymer (Li-Po) is not the technology you want for this. >Most< LiPO batteries are made with cheap chinese cells. The internal resistance is typically horrible which creates heat under large current draw such as starting. Heat destroys batteries.

The battery technology to look for is LiFePO4...Lithium Iron Phosphate. Look for one assembled in the USA and with a good warranty. In the interest of full disclosure, I run the old lead acid, but only because I'm too cheap to replace a perfectly good battery. However, I've been in the battery business in one form or another for about 25 years.

A good LiFePO4 battery will outlast a lead-acid by a huge margin...but it won't be cheap to buy a good one.

Hope this is helpful.

Awesome - thank you for the advice...

 

[Otto Man]

So add me to the "too cheap to replace a perfectly fine stock battery" group, but since most of our names on this board don't end with Rossi, Hayden, etc - Is there even a noticeable difference in weight savings? What I mean by noticeable is actual feel of the bike, not scale numbers.

 

[afinepoint]

Otto Man;271291 wrote: Is there even a noticeable difference in weight savings? What I mean by noticeable is actual feel of the bike, not scale numbers.

Probably not.

I just curious about the technology and whether it's as good or better than standard. If so, without emptying the piggy bank, why not?

Reg

 

[rugbydawg13]

Have one in my RSV from Alien Motion. Very happy and way lighter

...Sent from three hours behind you

 

[chucksR]

not sure if this helps, but i just purchased a pulse 1 full spectrum lightweight battery, weighs 460oz (which saves an average of 6lbs) and hold 6 months of powerful charge.. its also used by quick a few daytona sport bike racers. heres some info i got off one of the sites.

"The Pulse P1 features the finest A123 Systems cells for consistent performance and balanced power. Each set of cells is enclosed in a Valox composite case (stronger than ABS plastic, with heat and fire resistance). This case is super tough, yet light weight and compact to meet the demands of motorsports. Pure brass terminals are specially machined for the case, and connect to an Integrated Protection Circuit. This provides automatic current shut off if a short circuit is detected, or a forced discharge is detected. This protects you, the battery, any your machine from a potential hazard. No other battery offers this combination of lightweight, power, and safety."

"Full Spectrum Power Pulse® batteries belong to the lithium ion family, using the Nanophosphate® LiFePO4 chemistry, specifically. Batteries using this chemistry are light, powerful, and safe. Lithium ion batteries outperform their lead-acid based counterparts in multiple measures, including performance and longevity." 2 yr warranty

"Fully compatible with your motorcycle's stock charging system. We recommend using the Pacemaker or CV Charger with all Pulse and Genesis battery systems, which are designed for lithium cells. Standard chargers will not work properly with lithium cells. We also recommend disconnecting your Pulse or Genesis battery when the motorcycle will not be used for an extended period of time (more than 3 days) to prevent self-discharging which may permanently harm your battery."

very easy in install, i had no issues whatsoever. hopefully this was a wise investment on my part. but still looking for more feedback on it.

 

[Otto Man]

I got to be missing something with these batteries. Can anyone else shed some light on what I'm missing? I'll fill in how I read the post with red font...

chucksR;271314 wrote: not sure if this helps, but i just purchased a pulse 1 full spectrum lightweight battery, weighs 460oz (which saves an average of 6lbs) and hold 6 months of powerful charge Yes, this $150 battery lasts only 6 months, much better than your 2-4 year life span of your old lead acid/gel type batteries... its also used by quick a few daytona sport bike racers. heres some info i got off one of the sites.

"The Pulse P1 features the finest A123 Systems cells for consistent performance and balanced power. Each set of cells is enclosed in a Valox composite case (stronger than ABS plastic, with heat and fire resistance). This case is super tough, yet light weight and compact to meet the demands of motorsports. Pure brass terminals are specially machined for the case, and connect to an Integrated Protection Circuit. This provides automatic current shut off if a short circuit is detected, or a forced discharge is detected. This protects you, the battery, any your machine from a potential hazard. No other battery offers this combination of lightweight, power, and safety." In all the vehicles and motorcycles I've owned, I've never had a battery go rogue on me and cause any kind of hazard. Marketing at it's best...

"Full Spectrum Power Pulse® batteries belong to the lithium ion family, using the Nanophosphate® LiFePO4 chemistry, specifically. Batteries using this chemistry are light, powerful, and safe. Lithium ion batteries outperform their lead-acid based counterparts in multiple measures, including performance and longevity." 2 yr warranty How long have these batteries been out? I typically get 3-4 years old of a regular battery on my bikes.

"Fully compatible with your motorcycle's stock charging system. Well ain't that dandy! I don't have to rewire the entire bike to use this thing. We recommend using the Pacemaker or CV Charger with all Pulse and Genesis battery systems We recommend buying more of this stuff that's not required with the old style batteries, which are designed for lithium cells. Standard chargers will not work properly with lithium cells. We also recommend disconnecting your Pulse or Genesis battery when the motorcycle will not be used for an extended period of time (more than 3 days) to prevent self-discharging which may permanently harm your battery." Just one more thing to remember/maintain...that wan't required on the lead acid batteries

very easy in install, i had no issues whatsoever. These batteries are usually a fraction of the size of the OEM style...I'd sure hope it was easy to install. hopefully this was a wise investment on my part. but still looking for more feedback on it.

Again, I'm not dogging these things, and that's why I'm asking what the hell I'm misinterpreting, because they sure don't read that great to me [To someone slow enough never to notice a battery weight difference]. Now, you make these that DON'T require the added chargers and maintenance, and last just as long, if not longer than the lead acid style, NOW you're talking. I'm sure the technology will be there in a few more years, but for now, I think I'll just keep risking the loss of my fingers adding acid to a new battery.

 

[dbakerpa]

I had one on my last bike. The only problem wihtthem is they die if you let them loose charge. If they get low you have to charge them painfully slow. My recent bike I went with a 80CCA battery. It is just enough to get my bike started when its cold and you can jump it. It dropped about a pound off the standard battery.
If you do get one I have a charger for sale cheap.

 

[afinepoint]

Hmmm. I'll give ole Chuck the benefit of the doubt. I'll comment on his post in bold font.

chucksR;271314 wrote: not sure if this helps, but i just purchased a pulse 1 full spectrum lightweight battery, weighs 460oz (which saves an average of 6lbs) and hold 6 months of powerful charge.. . The battery will hold a usable charge for six months

"The Pulse P1 features the finest A123 Systems cells for consistent performance and balanced power. The battery ensures that one cell doesn't place a load on another. All batteries should be designed so. Pure brass terminals are specially machined for the case, and connect to an Integrated Protection Circuit. This provides automatic current shut off if a short circuit is detected, or a forced discharge is detected. This protects you, the battery, any your machine from a potential hazard. No other battery offers this combination of lightweight, power, and safety." Old LiPo batteries if overcharged/overheated could cause a radical change in internal resistance resulting in a condition call "thermal runaway". In some case this could end up with a battery fire and/or detonation. I owned early LiPo generations for my RC helicopter. I always charged them on a heat proof surface such as the range top, moved flammables well away and never left them unattended while charging

"Full Spectrum Power Pulse® batteries belong to the lithium ion family, using the Nanophosphate® LiFePO4 chemistry, specifically. Batteries using this chemistry are light, powerful, and safe. Lithium ion batteries outperform their lead-acid based counterparts in multiple measures, including performance and longevity." 2 yr warranty LiFePO4 have lower internal resistances than standard LiPo batteries. This means a lower voltage drop allowing a maximum current draw. Don't know about Nanophosphate.

"Fully compatible with your motorcycle's stock charging system. We recommend using the Pacemaker or CV Charger with all Pulse and Genesis battery systems, which are designed for lithium cells. Standard chargers will not work properly with lithium cells. i.e. these batteries take special chargers = more of an initial investment. We also recommend disconnecting your Pulse or Genesis battery when the motorcycle will not be used for an extended period of time (more than 3 days) to prevent self-discharging which may permanently harm your battery." I don't leave any of my batteries hooked to a charger. I just charge them as needed.

very easy in install, i had no issues whatsoever. hopefully this was a wise investment on my part. but still looking for more feedback on it.

 

[hooligan998]

I still have the stock battery in my 03 FZ1, which I bought new in 04. I know it's due for a replacement soon though. I do have a sealed AGM in my 07 R1 that I replaced the stock one with. It's been in there a few years now. Doing good so far. I may consider a LiFePO4 style battery when the time comes. I know a couple friends of mine run Shorei with good luck so far.

 

[2blueyam]

I bought an A123 cell battery made in someone's basement 4 years ago when a lot of this was just starting. It cost just a few dollars more than a standard battery. It finally started having some trouble starting my R1 this winter. It might have lasted another year, but I didn't want to risk losing a track day to a dead battery. I had no problem with paying for an Alien Motion to replace it with along with the balancing charger. I would expect the new one with the balancing charger and later technology to last even longer.

If you are in need of a new battery anyway, this is one of the cheapest ways to lose weight on your bike. Will you notice this weight difference by itself? Probably not, but if you lose 6 lb here, 15 lb. of exhaust, 5lb. from the spare tire around your waist, etc. you will notice the overall weight difference. The most noticeable difference in weight reduction is probably wheels, but you are generally talking some pretty big bucks there.

 

[Blueberry]

This is my 2nd season on the Pulse Spectrum 2- easy install, no maintenance whatsoever, no issues thus far. In colder temps (~ 45F is as cold as I've tried) I turn the fuel pump on/off a few times to "warm" the batteryand the bike always kicks right off (don't know if I need to but it was suggested on the Pulse website). I was 6 years into an OEM battery (on tender) and decided to proactively change it and enjoy the weight loss advantages (~11 lbs).

I sprung for the ~$40 charger too just because I wasn't convinced of the technology yet but haven't had to use it thus far.

Be sure to check the dimensions of the new battery as they may not fit well. I think the Genesis models are taller and may not fit into the battery compartments of some bikes without some mods.