Need Help – What did I do wrong?

_Rob

_Rob

New Member
First of all, I had a great time yesterday (VIR North, B group). I felt very comfortable on the bike and, although I was far from the fastest in the group, was pleased with my pace.

In the second to the last session, I went down in turn one, causing the first red flag of the session. I’m hoping someone caught it on video so I can see what I did wrong.

I think I lost the front, but I’m not sure. I can’t figure out what would have caused that. Maybe my off-on throttle transition was sloppy – could that have caused me to lose the front? Maybe I didn’t lose the front and the back slid out, but I don’t think so.

So…if anyone has video, or saw what went wrong, please let me know.

Thanks,

Rob
 
Kruizen

Kruizen

Control Rider
Rob it was great to meet you. How's the arm?

Someone said they had video from that session in the vir video thread.
 
_Rob

_Rob

New Member
Kruizen;292400 wrote: Rob it was great to meet you. How's the arm?Great meeting you too, Eric. Good luck in you November races! The arm is fine - not even sore today (I'm surprised). Just some raw skin.

Kruizen;292400 wrote: Someone said they had video from that session in the vir video thread.
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I'm keeping an eye on that thread!
 
S

steve gould

New Member
Rob, Monday morning might have been the least traction I've ever had while riding VIR in over 10 years. Very small mistakes that would go unnoticed in good conditions resulted in crashes on Monday morning. It could have been a number of things but my guess would be cold tire.
 
meanstrk

meanstrk

Control Rider
He said second to last session, so I would venture that the morning temps had nothing to do with it. The afernoon was nice, so as long as it was not the first lap, I would guess that the tires had heat.

Without video, it's very difficult to determine what the cause was. We can only speculate as to what may have caused it. The three most common crashes in T1 are:

1- Two fast entry resulting in too much brake resulting in exceeding traction limits of the front tire.

2- Too fast entry resulting in going either off, or wide, into the grass.

3- Two much throttle on exit resulting in spin up.

There are alternatives of course. Stabbing the brakes, or abrupt on/off throttle, but those are the most common that I have observed from corner working during the Code school for years.
 
meanstrk

meanstrk

Control Rider
Course, you also get that occasional "Let's spin it up on cold tires leaving pit road" too! I think that was I group....
 
M

moto1320

Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXV-Y7g3HO0&feature=youtu.be

Sorry it took a while to upload this and I didn't have time to edit it. So, all of the waiting in the lane is in there.

As to your wreck… I was the guy in the white on the yellow R6 in the video and my buddy was filming behind us. We both almost ran over you so I got a pretty good look ;)

We were coming toward T1 at a pretty good clip and when you saw my wheel it seemed like you decided you wanted the corner because you sped up again all of the sudden around the second brake marker. You had only done one lap, and I doubt your tires were warm. You came in hot with a lot of lean angle and lost the front.

I tried to see where you ended up to see if you were OK but was told you were alright and packed it in for the day. Sorry your day ended like it did but everyone is there at some point.
 
_Rob

_Rob

New Member
Thanks for posting the video!

Okay...this narrows down the mistake options a lot, but I still don't know why I lost the front. The lean angle doesn't seem too aggresive to me - I still have about 3/8" of unused tread on the front tire. Cold tires? If it takes more than a lap to warm up the tires on a nice afternoon, it's time to get tire warmers!
 
Otto Man

Otto Man

John
Control Rider
_Rob;292511 wrote: Thanks for posting the video!

Okay...this narrows down the mistake options a lot, but I still don't know why I lost the front. The lean angle doesn't seem too aggresive to me - I still have about 3/8" of unused tread on the front tire. Cold tires? If it takes more than a lap to warm up the tires on a nice afternoon, it's time to get tire warmers!
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The general rule of thumb is two laps, and that's the minimum (My opinion).

There's a ton of factors it could have been, and it's not possible to know without having any onboard video. Even then, there's still a ton that videos can never capture.

How much bar input are you using mid corner? Are you using the bars to hold your body position? You shouldn't be hanging onto the bars to hold yourself up or anything like that. Muscling the bars is a good way to overload the front tire and lose it.
 
meanstrk

meanstrk

Control Rider
From that video, it seems like you just lost the front. More than likely due to cold tires. How were you parking? Were the tires out of the sun while parked? If so, I would venture that the tires were cold, and one lap at B group pace will not cut it. Temps were only low 70's and in the shade you get no heat retention. What tires were you running? Some do better at warming up than others.
 
Godfather

Godfather

New Member
Rob,

What tires are you running? What were your pressures before going out on to the grid? Were your running warmers?

I had an off in June (pictured in my avatar) at South on the out lap due to a cold rear! Yes in June! Always give it minimum of two laps in cool temps just to be safe.
 
Otto Man

Otto Man

John
Control Rider
Godfather;292541 wrote: Rob,

What tires are you running? What were your pressures before going out on to the grid? Were your running warmers?

I had an off in June (pictured in my avatar) at South on the out lap due to a cold rear! Yes in June! Always give it minimum of two laps in cool temps just to be safe.
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You didn't have an off moment in that avatar! You just got tired, set the bike down, and took a quick nap on the track!!!

HAHA

:haha:
 
_Rob

_Rob

New Member
Thanks for all the input…

Tires:
B-Stone BT016 up front, 26 PSI cold
Dunlop Q3 rear, 24 PSI cold
No tire warmers, parked in partial shade. Definitely no heat retention. Looks like unless I get tire warmers, I need to back it down for at least two laps.

Unwanted bar input:
On the road, and in my last two track days, I make a point of using my lower body and legs to support me and minimize bar inputs. I don’t know how second nature this is to me yet, but I’m quite consistent on the road. Monday, I was not thinking much about minimizing bar inputs and I don’t know how well I was doing in that area. My right thumb was feeling sore in the afternoon and I think that was because I was using too much arm support during breaking. Perhaps, I was using the bars to support me in the corners too. Something I’ll have to pay more attention to in the spring.
 
Otto Man

Otto Man

John
Control Rider
_Rob;292545 wrote: Thanks for all the input…

Tires:
B-Stone BT016 up front, 26 PSI cold
Dunlop Q3 rear, 24 PSI cold
No tire warmers, parked in partial shade. Definitely no heat retention. Looks like unless I get tire warmers, I need to back it down for at least two laps.

Unwanted bar input:
On the road, and in my last two track days, I make a point of using my lower body and legs to support me and minimize bar inputs. I don’t know how second nature this is to me yet, but I’m quite consistent on the road. Monday, I was not thinking much about minimizing bar inputs and I don’t know how well I was doing in that area. My right thumb was feeling sore in the afternoon and I think that was because I was using too much arm support during breaking. Perhaps, I was using the bars to support me in the corners too. Something I’ll have to pay more attention to in the spring.
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Those pressures seem awfully low, but I've never ran a Bridgestone front before. Well, and I've never ran Q3's before. :haha: But, to be fair, I got a ton of track time on Q2's. I ran my Q2's 32/32 hot, and they had great feedback and feel.

24PSI cold on the rear is damn close to the 211GPAs, and Q3's are far from those.
 
Godfather

Godfather

New Member
Kma!

Otto Man, do the letters KMA mean anything to you?:D

I must say you did WAKE me up a few time this past weekend when you went around me.:adore:

It's impressive how fast you have become in one year! I guess I may have to start racing again?
 
Otto Man

Otto Man

John
Control Rider
meanstrk;292556 wrote: You USE to race? WTF man? They put motors in these things since then! Get with the times dude!
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I think he used to race before the dinosaurs took over the Earth??? :confused:
 
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