NESBA - Operation Bone Stock?
- Thread starter Mr.DJ
- Start date
Thanks Jim ??
Mr.DJ, I do not have a license, and I have never raced, but I have seen my friends race.
My thoughts on "stock" are the folks at Yamaha are deffenitely smarter than myself, and they make a great machine, so if it is not leaking or totally broken, just ride it. And have fun.
Mr.DJ, I do not have a license, and I have never raced, but I have seen my friends race.
My thoughts on "stock" are the folks at Yamaha are deffenitely smarter than myself, and they make a great machine, so if it is not leaking or totally broken, just ride it. And have fun.
D-Swens
Member
That sounds really really really awesome, def wanna see this. The idea is very cool on everything else...but USE RACE TIRES. That aspect of it really isn't comparing bike vs bike at all. It is literally not possible to be anywhere near as competitive on street tires, so that is not going to give you any basis for comparison on the bike. If you took a really really well set up R6, w/ Ohlins everything and a ton of HP, and took the race tires off and put street tires on, that bike would be a good few seconds or more slower as well. Your bike in completely stock trim may be damn near what the "fully built" bikes are doing, but you'll never know on street tires. Needs to be equal rubber on both to know what the true difference is.
Part of the reason the Ohlins suspension will feel better on the "built" bike will be just the benefit of the race tires alone. The stock suspension would feel a lot better on race rubber too...again to truly be able to compare them.
Hell, even the AMA DSB guys can go a few seconds faster switching from DOT's to NTEC slicks (and thats from race tires to race tires)
...just my semi irrelevant $.02
I think those are very valid points. Race tire are better, no doubt, and after market suspension can really get everything out of them.
Given: A pro can do expert times on a stock bike with street tires, but near lap records race tires.
Question: Can a novice do novice times safely on stock bike and street tire?
If so, I'd assume a few secs are gained with race tires, but would probably match or better 70% NESBA paddock in the right hands. Right hands = all of us given time and deliberate practice.
More interested in what the bike can do with the least investment, create platform to learn from and safe. Then compare to the masses.
I know most of us buy the add-ons because it's fun and its a project. I do the same. Honestly, this project is probably just some transmutation {going back to natural form?}
Given: A pro can do expert times on a stock bike with street tires, but near lap records race tires.
Question: Can a novice do novice times safely on stock bike and street tire?
If so, I'd assume a few secs are gained with race tires, but would probably match or better 70% NESBA paddock in the right hands. Right hands = all of us given time and deliberate practice.
More interested in what the bike can do with the least investment, create platform to learn from and safe. Then compare to the masses.
I know most of us buy the add-ons because it's fun and its a project. I do the same. Honestly, this project is probably just some transmutation {going back to natural form?}
Matt H
New Member
I agree wtih Andrew on this one (but you are the only one who knows exactly what you are looking for from this endeavor). But to be demonstrative of his point: put a MotoGP bike and 40 year old cafe racer on a frozen lake course. Regardless of which bike is more capable, the only thing being shown is the limit of traction - and since that is way below the capabilities of either bike, the difference in capabilities of the bikes becomes irrelevant. Sort of the weakest link in the chain makes the difference in the overall chain regardless of other capable links.
I'd say go with race tires to show what the design and manufacturing of a stock bike is truly capable of (and not what the design and manufacturing of a tire is capable of). But again, you know what you are after.
I'd say go with race tires to show what the design and manufacturing of a stock bike is truly capable of (and not what the design and manufacturing of a tire is capable of). But again, you know what you are after.
"More interested in what the bike can do with the least investment" - minimum investment in suspension and/or race tires.
Is the available grip with the new tech in street/track tires enough? Maybe, maybe not. The first is to find where we are now, versus taking it out there out there with aftermarket wares. Then, find the weaknesses. Is it the shock spring that makes the tire spin first? If so, change that, then ride. Go until another issue.
I would assume tires are the next or very close to next step. If so, change them. Log all of this and provide the feedback to the folks here.
This is what I am curious about
. Nothing prevents us from "walking the tree" - Spring change, front tire, rear tire, forks, rear shock, mapping, etc.... meanwhile logging the diffs and seeing if worth the changes. If this has been done on a modern sportbike with "Trackday guys" then.... this could be a waste of time.
Again, I agree with Drew's point on tires. But I'd like to get it to spin on the ice first. no assumptions, demonstrate even if it appears obvious.
stow
New Member
I think what DJ is going for is to prove that a stock bike with street tires can run at the front of a WERA Novice race. It may not win or even get on the podium, but it can finish within the top 5. I have seen so many guys show up in the "B" group with slicks and race gas, and you couldn't convince them they were wasting money. That stuff allowed them to run 2 minute flat lap times at Barber and Road Atlanta. The idea is to present the information to the masses in order to convince them to focus on riding and to spend the money on track time or school time.
I think it is a pretty cool idea, and I like the idea of DJ doing one race and Taylor doing another. We need to get on-board video of both races and document the whole thing. Taylor having to wear the provisional novice shirt just makes the whole thing even better.
I think it is a pretty cool idea, and I like the idea of DJ doing one race and Taylor doing another. We need to get on-board video of both races and document the whole thing. Taylor having to wear the provisional novice shirt just makes the whole thing even better.
Yes sir!!!!stow;240568 wrote: I think what DJ is going for is to prove that a stock bike with street tires can run at the front of a WERA Novice race. It may not win or even get on the podium, but it can finish within the top 5. I have seen so many guys show up in the "B" group with slicks and race gas, and you couldn't convince them they were wasting money. That stuff allowed them to run 2 minute flat lap times at Barber and Road Atlanta. The idea is to present the information to the masses in order to convince them to focus on riding and to spend the money on track time or school time.
I think it is a pretty cool idea, and I like the idea of DJ doing one race and Taylor doing another. We need to get on-board video of both races and document the whole thing. Taylor having to wear the provisional novice shirt just makes the whole thing even better.
LOL - you know what. We have two stock bikes now. Maybe we fit one with street and the other with "race." We enter the same races and swap bikes and compare times and notes. ?
Remove the variables as much as possible.
Oh yea - go pros. I got some.
dpullen
New Member
I think this can reasonably be done. Last year at the GNF, I had the privilege of participating in the 4-hour endurance race on a mostly stock 2007 R6. It had a leather aftermarket seat, race farings, and a slip-on exhaust. Stock pegs, brakes, suspension, etc. We even ran pump gas. I don't think the engine or suspension had even been serviced...
We had 1 practice session to tune the bike. We changed the rear sprocket, fiddled with the front preload, and rode the wheels off the thing. We did use NTEC race tires (DOTs). I hated the seat (stock would have been better) and dragged the foot pegs everywhere.
I managed to get down to 1:38s (4 seconds off my pace on my built 2009 R6 with all the goodies and race gas), and we finished on the podium - despite having glacially slow pit stops - imagine refueling with an IV drip.
I'm confident that we could have gone faster if we had more time to set up the geometry and tune the stock suspension.
We ran the whole race on 1 set of tires, and I did my fastest laps toward the end. Granted RoadAtl is fairly easy on tires...but 4 hours is a lot of time on those tires.
I'm looking forward to seeing how these results work out!
- Dave
We had 1 practice session to tune the bike. We changed the rear sprocket, fiddled with the front preload, and rode the wheels off the thing. We did use NTEC race tires (DOTs). I hated the seat (stock would have been better) and dragged the foot pegs everywhere.
I managed to get down to 1:38s (4 seconds off my pace on my built 2009 R6 with all the goodies and race gas), and we finished on the podium - despite having glacially slow pit stops - imagine refueling with an IV drip.
I'm confident that we could have gone faster if we had more time to set up the geometry and tune the stock suspension.
We ran the whole race on 1 set of tires, and I did my fastest laps toward the end. Granted RoadAtl is fairly easy on tires...but 4 hours is a lot of time on those tires.
I'm looking forward to seeing how these results work out!
- Dave
