New carolina track
- Thread starter HokieRider
- Start date
ADVRacer
New Member
You are kidding right?
I just retired after 26 years of active duty and I can honestly say the military has never told me that I couldn't take part in a particular recreational activity on my own time. Oh, I almost forgot, they did say I can't solicit a prostitute but that's already illegal. The only time we were restricted from fun was when we were on liberty in a foriegn port. I would love to see something in writing saying you can't ride your bike on a track on your own time. When I was stationed in Italy, the military leased a local track for a day so we could provide training. After the training was done a group of us instructors turned hot laps for a couple hours. What branch are you in and where are you stationed?
I just retired after 26 years of active duty and I can honestly say the military has never told me that I couldn't take part in a particular recreational activity on my own time. Oh, I almost forgot, they did say I can't solicit a prostitute but that's already illegal. The only time we were restricted from fun was when we were on liberty in a foriegn port. I would love to see something in writing saying you can't ride your bike on a track on your own time. When I was stationed in Italy, the military leased a local track for a day so we could provide training. After the training was done a group of us instructors turned hot laps for a couple hours. What branch are you in and where are you stationed?
hooligan998
New Member
Being retired from active duty, you should know that even when on your time, it's still Uncle Sam's time any time he chooses. And as for something in writing, you won't find that. When the CO says it, it's as good as in writing.
That being said, I think it's a bunch of BS as well. Track riding, although risky, is still inherently safer than street riding, and they (armed forces) let you do that.
JRA
New Member
The truth is that for some people it may be safer and for others not. If the question you are asking yourself is should I go up to my local mountain road and push my limits with my buddies on a public highway or do it on a track with NESBA? The answer is do it on the track with NESBA it's much safer. On the other hand if you aren't a risk taker and ride responsibly on the street, obeying traffic laws and using all the skills you have learned through rider training, then the street is probably safer.
The bottom line is that riding a motorcycle--whether on the street or on the track-- is risky, and riding on the track is not necessarily "inherently safer" than riding on the street. That's determined by each individual rider and differs between riders.
Sorry for taking this thread off on a tangent but I want to give you something to think about. I keep seeing this statement made over and over as if it's a matter of fact and it's starting to bug me.
denbsteph
Member
Must choose my words wisely here, I have put over 400,00 miles on street bikes. The only mishap I had was in 84 on my Honda NightHawk S and that was all my fault. I look at it this way, we all know riding on the track is dangerous, no doubt about it, but I don't have to contend with make up doers, cell phone idiots, DRUNKS, the PO PO, distracted ind's, young cagers and cagers who just have no business being on the road. For me the track is a way to have fun, get my blood flowing. I put good judgement in JRA, asst Directors the CR's and the other experienced riders to pull those up and correct issue's that may arise during the course of the day. I got the "thrash across the throat" sign on my second day. I got chastised and I thanked the CR for it, I really did. Then I asked him how I was really doing and he gave his humble opinion. This is my view on it, we all have opinions and if we remember where we are we will be alright, there will be accidents. For me, I like to converse face to face, I read your non verbal communication, body posturing and all that other stuff to gage what you are really trying to say. On this board it's hard to see what you are really trying to say, just MHO.
1bad7
New Member
I read on this forum everyday and sporadically post as I don't think everybody needs to hear all my thoughts, that and I don't talk just to hear myself talk. So when it comes to this subject of street vs. track, I believe that it's up to each individual person and let me quantify that statement as it's really broad. In the military (having served and continue to serve for the last 23 years and a MSF instructor for the last 10) the vast majority of service members that ride sportbikes tend to be young and want the adrenaline rush associated with riding a sportbike, that's not to say that some don't have common sense and use good judgement(but common sense isn't always as common as it should be), but statistics tell the true story(at least militarily) which is why there is such emphasis on motorcycle safety.
Now back to the actual topic at hand. Mr. John Allen our esteemed regional director brings up very valid points that are completely true. Things will happen and mistakes will be made, but how you prepare yourself and what your ultimate goal for "The Ride" really is, is the point.
Myself, I can't fathom not riding on the road, but at the same time I can't stop riding the track. I ride on the street for all the reasons that it appeals to and got most folks into riding to begin with. I ride the track because it is the only place where I can take myself to my limits and sometimes beyond, with the ultimate goal of improving and being a better, smoother, and faster rider, which will translate back to my street riding. I too have gotten the dreaded "Throat Slash" from none other than Mr. Allen at VIR South(remember...), but I took the butt chewing in stride and learned from MY mistake, and because of it I have become a much more cognizant rider.
My final point is this, I believe that if you think that there is nothing left for you to learn that you are the fastest person out there and why are all these super slow people getting in my way then Sir/Ma'am you need to either get the MotoGP contract you deserve or please let me know when you are going to be out there because I would rather have you not take me out while being the best on the planet.
Sorry for my rant much like JRA, but I too have seen the statement made with no facts to back it up. I'm done now, you may all go back to your regularly scheduled lives
Now back to the actual topic at hand. Mr. John Allen our esteemed regional director brings up very valid points that are completely true. Things will happen and mistakes will be made, but how you prepare yourself and what your ultimate goal for "The Ride" really is, is the point.
Myself, I can't fathom not riding on the road, but at the same time I can't stop riding the track. I ride on the street for all the reasons that it appeals to and got most folks into riding to begin with. I ride the track because it is the only place where I can take myself to my limits and sometimes beyond, with the ultimate goal of improving and being a better, smoother, and faster rider, which will translate back to my street riding. I too have gotten the dreaded "Throat Slash" from none other than Mr. Allen at VIR South(remember...), but I took the butt chewing in stride and learned from MY mistake, and because of it I have become a much more cognizant rider.
My final point is this, I believe that if you think that there is nothing left for you to learn that you are the fastest person out there and why are all these super slow people getting in my way then Sir/Ma'am you need to either get the MotoGP contract you deserve or please let me know when you are going to be out there because I would rather have you not take me out while being the best on the planet.
Sorry for my rant much like JRA, but I too have seen the statement made with no facts to back it up. I'm done now, you may all go back to your regularly scheduled lives
cbr_600rr_freak
New Member
I rode the new track March 17/18. I haven't rode another track like it. No other td organization rides a track like it IMO. Here is a write up on the track a friend of mine did on another forum. Thought I would share with you guys.
Alright folks - here's the dope:
I just spent the weekend with the "inner circle" of Team Pro-Motion, getting trained up to be a coach for them this season, and riding/evaluating this new track. I'm fairly impressed with TPM. They seem to be genuinely concerned with rider safety, and focused on making the track experience an enjoyable one. It sounds like they're very pro-active about giving new riders feedback and personalized instruction. I'm excited to be invited to help out with that. I hope to see a bunch of you guys out there this season, either at NCBIKE, VIR, Summit, or CMP!
The facility is BRAND HAMMER NEW, and in some ways not quite complete. The paddock is going to be the biggest area of complaint. Here's my BIG HINT: BRING A PIECE OF PLYWOOD, or outdoor carpet. There's plenty of power around the outside of the paddock, but they'd like people to park towards the center, nose-in. The paddock area is GRAVEL - the big chunky kind. IT WILL NOT STICK TO YOUR TIRES, I guarantee it. But it is hard (um, impossible) to make a bike stand roll in it. I ended up finding two pallet stringers to put on either side of my bike to roll the stands on. Plywood would have been better. I'm told the paddock will be paved, at least around the outside, sometime this season. IT IS BRAND NEW, and they are aware of the issue, so try not to bitch.
Please be very conscious of your garbage. They are Barber-picky about this.
The garages are kick-ass, two-story affairs with kitchens and showers. They will allow up to 12 (TWELVE) bikes in a garage. $400/12 = $33.33 There is a $500 deposit, SO WHAT?!? They only take it if you fuck up something $500 bad. So don't do that.
This is an amazing place! There are some bugs to be worked out, but they are very willing to address these concerns. We need to be good and gracious enough guests that they don't regret opening up this place to us.
Now as for the track:
NCCAR is a very unique facility. There will never be a WERA or CCS race there, because it is not a racetrack; "Politicians don't pay for racetracks," is what the COO said to us when he was describing the facility. But time trial events are perfectly acceptable
That said, there are some very different things about this place. There are no curbs at corner entry, apex or exit. We will have markers for the turn-in point and cones for the apexes, but many of the visual cues the trackday rider is used to seeing ARE NOT THERE. We'll also have braking markers for T1, which is a pretty high-speed right sweeper. The pavement is very wide, so there's plenty of pavement left if you do happen to blow your entry point to run it wide and scrub speed - you still should be trying to get it turned, though.
The track features mostly all constant-radius corners, but linked together in such a way that some will seem to tighten up, and others to open up. T2 will catch more than one person out, as the line is a very late apex to make the entry to T3, and you're coming in very fast off T1, so the corner seems to tighten. If you blow T2, you're going to have to slow WAY down to get into T3, which will ruin your transition into the T4 right, so you'll just lose all momentum coming into T5 (the "offramp").
T5 is a very unique corner. You'll be hitting it, depending on ability, anywhere between 45 and 75 miles per hour. You'll be at a constant lean angle for 10-15 seconds. The "apex" is about 3/4 of the way around, and you have to transition again immediately for T6. I was actually getting dizzy if I didn't focus all the way across to the apex and use my peripheral vision to maintain my line off the inside of the corner. It will be very challenging, but hella fun. I will be dragging elbow in T5 by midsummer!
T6 is forgiving, but is bumpy. They will be fixing some of the bumps this week, but there are ripples from cars in the acceleration zone. This is the only part of the track where the pavement is not PERFECT. T6 seems to open up on exit, as there's a short little chute to the entry of T7. The back side of the track is very much like VIR South Course - "kink" turns connected by short straights, then a bus-stop right hook. Again, without the visual cues of painted curbing, this will be a very tricky part to get right.
T11 has about the only visible elevation change on the track. It goes uphill from midcorner to apex, so it's a deceptively faster corner than you think, as the slight uphill loads your suspension and gives you better traction for the drive onto the main straight.
The straight is a half mile long, dead straight. It is a sixth gear straight that reminds me of Summit or Roebling. Everybody will brake too early for T1, which I guess is a good thing. I was waiting until I passed the end of the large paved lot on rider's left to bang down two and brake, and I could have still gone 100-150ft later.
Runoff is generally very generous, but some spots don't drain as well as you'd think, so if you do go moto, you may end up dropping it in the mud. YOU SHOULD NEVER BE OFF THE PAVEMENT ANYWAY. If you are, you're riding over your head and will be sternly counseled on the first offense. With TPM, two motos in one day are grounds for the rider sitting out the rest of the day with no refund, at the discretion of the coaching staff.
TPM will be installing airfence outside the entry to T5 - the "offramp," and also outside the exit of T10. I understand there's a concern about bikes going over the guardrail onto the front straight, but the reality is that it's highly unlikely. TPM is in discussion with track management about more safety measures to ensure this could never happen, not even on the worst day ever, but it's a TRACKDAY, not a RACE. I would hope that everybody participating after attending the rider's meeting would be conscious of the risk. We are going to declare a NO PASSING area from the T4-T5 transition around to the T5 apex marker. Riders breaking that rule once will sit out a session, twice will be asked to leave. We do not want any incidents. And who wants the dubious honor of being the first person to crash a motorcycle at NCCAR?
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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?3f5q0i
Alright folks - here's the dope:
I just spent the weekend with the "inner circle" of Team Pro-Motion, getting trained up to be a coach for them this season, and riding/evaluating this new track. I'm fairly impressed with TPM. They seem to be genuinely concerned with rider safety, and focused on making the track experience an enjoyable one. It sounds like they're very pro-active about giving new riders feedback and personalized instruction. I'm excited to be invited to help out with that. I hope to see a bunch of you guys out there this season, either at NCBIKE, VIR, Summit, or CMP!
The facility is BRAND HAMMER NEW, and in some ways not quite complete. The paddock is going to be the biggest area of complaint. Here's my BIG HINT: BRING A PIECE OF PLYWOOD, or outdoor carpet. There's plenty of power around the outside of the paddock, but they'd like people to park towards the center, nose-in. The paddock area is GRAVEL - the big chunky kind. IT WILL NOT STICK TO YOUR TIRES, I guarantee it. But it is hard (um, impossible) to make a bike stand roll in it. I ended up finding two pallet stringers to put on either side of my bike to roll the stands on. Plywood would have been better. I'm told the paddock will be paved, at least around the outside, sometime this season. IT IS BRAND NEW, and they are aware of the issue, so try not to bitch.
Please be very conscious of your garbage. They are Barber-picky about this.
The garages are kick-ass, two-story affairs with kitchens and showers. They will allow up to 12 (TWELVE) bikes in a garage. $400/12 = $33.33 There is a $500 deposit, SO WHAT?!? They only take it if you fuck up something $500 bad. So don't do that.
This is an amazing place! There are some bugs to be worked out, but they are very willing to address these concerns. We need to be good and gracious enough guests that they don't regret opening up this place to us.
Now as for the track:
NCCAR is a very unique facility. There will never be a WERA or CCS race there, because it is not a racetrack; "Politicians don't pay for racetracks," is what the COO said to us when he was describing the facility. But time trial events are perfectly acceptable
That said, there are some very different things about this place. There are no curbs at corner entry, apex or exit. We will have markers for the turn-in point and cones for the apexes, but many of the visual cues the trackday rider is used to seeing ARE NOT THERE. We'll also have braking markers for T1, which is a pretty high-speed right sweeper. The pavement is very wide, so there's plenty of pavement left if you do happen to blow your entry point to run it wide and scrub speed - you still should be trying to get it turned, though.
The track features mostly all constant-radius corners, but linked together in such a way that some will seem to tighten up, and others to open up. T2 will catch more than one person out, as the line is a very late apex to make the entry to T3, and you're coming in very fast off T1, so the corner seems to tighten. If you blow T2, you're going to have to slow WAY down to get into T3, which will ruin your transition into the T4 right, so you'll just lose all momentum coming into T5 (the "offramp").
T5 is a very unique corner. You'll be hitting it, depending on ability, anywhere between 45 and 75 miles per hour. You'll be at a constant lean angle for 10-15 seconds. The "apex" is about 3/4 of the way around, and you have to transition again immediately for T6. I was actually getting dizzy if I didn't focus all the way across to the apex and use my peripheral vision to maintain my line off the inside of the corner. It will be very challenging, but hella fun. I will be dragging elbow in T5 by midsummer!
T6 is forgiving, but is bumpy. They will be fixing some of the bumps this week, but there are ripples from cars in the acceleration zone. This is the only part of the track where the pavement is not PERFECT. T6 seems to open up on exit, as there's a short little chute to the entry of T7. The back side of the track is very much like VIR South Course - "kink" turns connected by short straights, then a bus-stop right hook. Again, without the visual cues of painted curbing, this will be a very tricky part to get right.
T11 has about the only visible elevation change on the track. It goes uphill from midcorner to apex, so it's a deceptively faster corner than you think, as the slight uphill loads your suspension and gives you better traction for the drive onto the main straight.
The straight is a half mile long, dead straight. It is a sixth gear straight that reminds me of Summit or Roebling. Everybody will brake too early for T1, which I guess is a good thing. I was waiting until I passed the end of the large paved lot on rider's left to bang down two and brake, and I could have still gone 100-150ft later.
Runoff is generally very generous, but some spots don't drain as well as you'd think, so if you do go moto, you may end up dropping it in the mud. YOU SHOULD NEVER BE OFF THE PAVEMENT ANYWAY. If you are, you're riding over your head and will be sternly counseled on the first offense. With TPM, two motos in one day are grounds for the rider sitting out the rest of the day with no refund, at the discretion of the coaching staff.
TPM will be installing airfence outside the entry to T5 - the "offramp," and also outside the exit of T10. I understand there's a concern about bikes going over the guardrail onto the front straight, but the reality is that it's highly unlikely. TPM is in discussion with track management about more safety measures to ensure this could never happen, not even on the worst day ever, but it's a TRACKDAY, not a RACE. I would hope that everybody participating after attending the rider's meeting would be conscious of the risk. We are going to declare a NO PASSING area from the T4-T5 transition around to the T5 apex marker. Riders breaking that rule once will sit out a session, twice will be asked to leave. We do not want any incidents. And who wants the dubious honor of being the first person to crash a motorcycle at NCCAR?
---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?3f5q0i
hooligan998
New Member
I guess I was trying to make the point of street riding with cagers vs. track riding with other track riders, but I do see your point on this.
Back on topic though. Good write up on the track. Seems promising so far.
JRA
New Member
Just the fact that this disclaimer has to be given tells me there is a problem with this turn. How big I don't know, but I will say that there are all kinds of things that are "highly unlikely" and yet we see them all the time. In the "highly unlikely" event that it does happen and someone on that front straight T-bones a flying motorcycle at 150 mph what is going to be said to the wife/husband/mother/father/son/daughter? I'm pretty sure that "well we declared a no passing zone there to make it safer" isn't going to cut it.
I have no dog in this hunt and I know this has been beaten to death elsewhere, but it seems to me that extending a fence up from the armco to catch a flying bike would not be very costly. In fact you guys could have probably negotiated that into the contract where the trackday org. installs a adequate fence, and the track gives a discount on the rental rate to cover it.
What I really don't get is why take the chance with the lives of your participants when it seems like there is an effective alternative that could quickly be put into place that would solve this problem?
rugbydawg13
New Member
Exactly what I have been thinking. That track has a lot of potential but I am leery of it until the fencing is put in. I hope it does happen soon because I would love to give it a go.
Sent from my portable moth magnet.