New carolina track

[1bad7]

No worries, we're all family in here.

Great write up on the track. I'll hold my opinion to myself as I haven't been there or seen the track yet....

 

[Wawazat]

One thing my writeup did not exaggerate enough was how different this place is from a standard racetrack. The layout is designed for a completely separate purpose. It just feels ...weird. It definitely takes a handful of laps to get use to the flow of it. I definitely recommend at least going there and experiencing something new. It's ...different, but in a good way.

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[denbsteph]

For being a spectator at NCCAR, I was getting dizzy watching all the chicane's of bike's going around. Watching the snake of bike's making it's way thru the turns was pretty impressive.

Are you gonna make it to VIR before you jet?

 

[Wawazat]

For a second there I thought it might be a possibility, but I'm leaving for TX a few days before then.

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[cbr_600rr_freak]

Didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest

 

[JRA]

Then why the restricted passing rules? If there is no problem why do anything differently in that turn than in any other turn.

You're the one who posted the review of the race track that included these sentences:

I understand there's a concern about bikes going over the guardrail onto the front straight, but the reality is that it's highly unlikely. TPM is in discussion with track management about more safety measures to ensure this could never happen, not even on the worst day ever, but it's a TRACKDAY, not a RACE. I would hope that everybody participating after attending the rider's meeting would be conscious of the risk.

And then when someone (me) questions the safety of the turn, points out that even by your own admission additional safety measures are required to ensure it "could never happen", you accuse me of whining? That seems like an obvious case of the pot calling the kettle black. It was your post that opened the door to the question. It's a legitimate safety concern that is going to follow this track until something is done that will ensure it "could never happen." Until that time comes, or God forbid the worst happens, you might as well get used to it.

Jason, I'm sure once you've been around for a while you'll come to realize that the unexpected eventually happens. I've seen bikes go cart-wheeling over fences ten to fifteen feet in the air, and a five foot tall air fence will do nothing to prevent that. You just can't predict what will happen that might suddenly change the speed and the rider angles involved in a turn. Once somebody runs off in that turn, or crashes in a way that would be considered outside of normal, all of the theories on where the bike will end up are out the window. You're right that "what ifs" can happen at any track, they just don't involve the possibility of sending a bike into 160 mph oncoming traffic at other tracks.

You really might want to think about this a little more before you just type out another post telling me why I'm wrong because I'll tell you right now that I don't know if I'm right or wrong. What I do know is that your own review says to be "conscious of the risk" that this could happen, and I don't need to see the track for that tell me that somebody else thinks there is a problem too.

As I said before I have no dog in this hunt, and ultimately it's up to each individual rider to decide if any track is safe for them to ride. My hope is that for everyone who rides there, or at any other track, to be safe and go home uninjured.

 

[cbr_600rr_freak]

Didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest

 

[rugbydawg13]

Although this is originally quoted from another TPM CR, you posted it and you contradict yourself. Which is it?

cbr_600rr_freak;235576 wrote: We are going to declare a NO PASSING area from the T4-T5 transition around to the T5 apex marker. Riders breaking that rule once will sit out a session, twice will be asked to leave. We do not want any incidents. And who wants the dubious honor of being the first person to crash a motorcycle at NCCAR?

If it's safe then why the extra precaution and the harsh penalty? Bottom line, even the freakish happens. I've been at events when people died from the never-before-happened. (RIP) How bad does it have to get at NCCAR/BIKE before the proper measures are used to prevent even the most unlikely events? Brakes fail, throttles stick, oil and coolant get leaked. Shit happens. The concern about turn 5 and the straight, despite the odds of a bad event or not, is there because the consequences of an airborne bike or person reaching the front straight are far beyond anything I could imagine at any other track. If your rebuttal had more evidence and detail, I would give it more reverence but it sounds more like cheerleading for the company that employs you and doesn't do much to curtail my concerns. I do understand your point about trying it before knocking but the catch to that is that one has to potentially put themselves in harms way to try it out. It didn't take a single lap for guys like Matt Mladin and others to assess the potential hazards at Kansas a few years ago and refuse to race there, so your logic comes up a tad short. I sincerely hope I'm way off the mark and that it is a totally awesome and safe track that will only get better. I plan on visiting and then maybe riding there if I feel good about it. Fred's comments already did a lot to curtail a lot of concerns but I, as anyone should, will reserve final judgement before I slap down my dollars and put myself at risk in what is already a potentially lethal sport.

 

[denbsteph]

This thread is getting interesting.

 

[madriders86]

Jeez. Murphy's law much?

 

[JRA]

You know what, just about every track I've ever ridden has some spot that is, or can be, sketchy given the right circumstances. The difference is if the worst were to happen it's almost guaranteed that the crashing rider is one who will be affected. In the case of this turn at this track, it looks to me like if the worst were to happen some innocent rider on the front straight is the one who will be affected. Can you imagine being tucked in, pinned in 6th gear, and then all of the sudden have a bike come flying at you out of nowhere?

I'm not spreading rumors here. You posted the review that contained your own concerns, or the concerns of somebody at TPM about this particular corner. I'm just commenting on what you posted using the knowledge I have from running trackdays for NESBA. I've seen a lot of crazy stuff and nothing surprises me, no matter how unlikely. It appears this is a simple fix, and you say they are fixing it. Hopefully that's the case, but why take the chance until the fix is in place?

And yes, I talked to Pitzer about the track last week and he filled me in in detail. None of that changes anything I've said.

I'm not telling anyone not to ride there. I'm not saying that it's inevitable that a catastrophe will happen. In fact, I don't even know why I'm bothering except that people keep asking me what I think. Bottom line is this is it's a legitimate concern that people should be aware of before they go and ride there.

 

[Bubba Zanetti]

cbr_600rr_freak;236079 wrote: There are no restrictions on passing in that corner. There are no restrictions on passing in any part of the track. T5 is my favorite corner to pass actually. Sounds like you have false info. Please check facts next time or ask. Wasn't referring to just you about winning John. Guess that just came across wrong. I wont put a track down till i ride it or at least go and view it or walk it. Talk to your assistant SE director. He was grinning from ear to ear after he rode it that Saturday! He will be back! His own words! There is not a way to reach speeds in T5 to cross the track. It would be the freakish of all freakish wrecks. Is that the turn your talking about? It was the first td event ever at the track. Any possible concerns they are fixing. It's a diamond in the rough. It is shining little bit now but will bling bling very soon! Come ride it John. I can get you in for $150 on the friends list. No membership needed.


CCS# 108
TPM Coach

It would be the freakish of all freakish wrecks.

Your statement there, is JRA's point.

Nobodys saying for you to not ride their...what is being said is the unthinkable and what appears to be impossible does and eventually will happen.

I don't know how many years you have been on the track CBR600, probably more than me, but I do know that people who have been doing this for 10 years or more have some of the craziest stories of accidents that are "who could see that coming"? in nature and context.

Point being, the impossible does and will happen,; its not a matter of how, it's a matter of when. For some of the vetrens in trackday riding who have seen their friends take the helicopter ride or who have God forbid been killed or permentaly maimed in the impossible 'how the hell did that happen' accidents. Their experiance dictates not riding that track.

A good analogy in this is: "Its the unloaded gun thats safe" so go ahead and point it at that person, car, cat it won't go off" :wow:.

To take a line from JRA, I have no bone in this, but I have been around long enough to see these threads pop up about tracks like Shenandoah, Monticello and a few others were parts of the track are too much risk for many riders.

If the impossible did happen and a bike blew that turn and smoked someone, then the WERA, NESBA, TPM, and Absolute BBS's would be lit up with the What the hell! Why did they ride their threads!

Thats enough for me.

BZ

 

[Wawazat]

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling

...just sayin'.

 

[Bubba Zanetti]

Wawazat;236142 wrote: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling

...just sayin'.

That is the best you have in response?

BZ

 

[cbr_600rr_freak]

Didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest

 

[fitz]

cbr_600rr_freak;236176 wrote: So you are saying TPM is running TD's on a track that is unsafe to riders? Is that correct JRA?


CCS# 108
TPM Coach

Dude, everything at its core that I interpret him saying is he is looking out for our saftey, I for one appreciate that cause I don't have a clue.

Stop looking for a fight.

 

[noobinacan]

Fact is, there is long list of question and safety concerns about that track. That list is longer than any other place.
That list raises safety concerns for some people who are responsible for rider safety....have years of experience and I trust their judgement.

any piece of winding pavement and rideable and fun in this sport, you can ride some mountain roads here in NC that are a lot of fun, go balls to the walls, ride the dragon, ride mulholland...and skewer yourself on the armco there.

I understand TPM is doing days there, that's great...and I hope they turn it into a awesome facility. Until then, others can test ride it...

and here's what I really feel:
Its a POS track, and I'd rather spend my limited time, money and effort at a decent facility:
VIR, RA, Barber, CMP even, Summit...drive all the way to NOLA, drive all the way to NJMP. Its not like we're short of places to ride.
personally, I'm not going to run that track, even if its a free day with free food and a GP pit crew.
so screw that track, until its fixed and I can sit on my freakin couch, eat ice cream and look at a satellite picture and say..."SWEET"

 

[madriders86]

There are other tracks I'd rather spend my money on...but I'll probably give it a try eventually. Looks real fast, I prefer more technical tracks. I'm sure they have improvements planned and as close as it is to me I'll probably ride there when they make some additions to the track layout.

cbr_600rr_freak;235989 wrote: So you are saying TPM is running TD's on a track that is unsafe to riders? Is that correct JRA?


CCS# 108
TPM Coach

What are you, fox news? Don't you see how this comes off as a bit sleezy?

Are YOU saying that the track is 100% safe and nothing can go wrong? Or are you just saying that it's "highly unlikely" that an imaginable catastrophe could happen? Because that's not good enough for me and it shouldn't be for you either.

 

[denbsteph]

Like I said earlier, this thread is getting interesting. I was there Saturday as a spectator and personally, I'm not real comfortable how close T-5 comes to the main straight away, let alone the guardrail. I'll wait and see what the future brings to NCCAR.

 

[cbr_600rr_freak]

Didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest