New carolina track

michicago

michicago

New Member
cbr_600rr_freak;236176 wrote: So you are saying TPM is running TD's on a track that is unsafe to riders? Is that correct JRA?


CCS# 108
TPM Coach
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Clearly you are just reading what you want to read, not what John is writing.

Notice John stopped replying to you? Sometimes posting less is more... something you might want to consider while you're stamping TPM's name all over your posts. If TPM were my organization, this is not the kind of advertising I would want from my coaches.
 
Meat

Meat

Member
michicago;236222 wrote:

Sometimes posting less is more... something you might want to consider while you're stamping TPM's name all over your posts. If TPM were my organization, this is not the kind of advertising I would want from my coaches.
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This is exactly what I was thinking. And he is the one that turned it into a TPM vs nesba battle (even putting in TPM coach in his signature) when no one else here is remotely interested in that kind of trivial BS. This was about the track NOT the track organization.
 
H

HunterHughes

Member
noobinacan;236191 wrote: Fact is, there is long list of question and safety concerns about that track. That list is longer than any other place.
That list raises safety concerns for some people who are responsible for rider safety....have years of experience and I trust their judgement.

any piece of winding pavement and rideable and fun in this sport, you can ride some mountain roads here in NC that are a lot of fun, go balls to the walls, ride the dragon, ride mulholland...and skewer yourself on the armco there.

I understand TPM is doing days there, that's great...and I hope they turn it into a awesome facility. Until then, others can test ride it...

and here's what I really feel:
Its a POS track, and I'd rather spend my limited time, money and effort at a decent facility:
VIR, RA, Barber, CMP even, Summit...drive all the way to NOLA, drive all the way to NJMP. Its not like we're short of places to ride.
personally, I'm not going to run that track, even if its a free day with free food and a GP pit crew.
so screw that track, until its fixed and I can sit on my freakin couch, eat ice cream and look at a satellite picture and say..."SWEET"
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I totally understand where your coming from but there is something to be said about 'dont knock it till you try it'. Its fun, fast, flowing and technical, feels a lot like roebling. That corner looks bad in track maps and possibly in pictures but as someone who has ridden it I dont see a way i could make it to the straight unless i rode it up there on purpose. There is enough of an elevation change to make even that difficult, not to mention a guardrail but even without that the angle and slower speed that you come into that corner at makes it (i dont want to say impossible but...) improbable that your bike would continue onto the straight without your help. Granted im not at warp factor 5 like some of the top A group/ CRs.

That said, the place is new and needs work... but mostly in its unfinished paddock:banghead:
 
JRA

JRA

New Member
cbr_600rr_freak;236176 wrote: So you are saying TPM is running TD's on a track that is unsafe to riders? Is that correct JRA?


CCS# 108
TPM Coach
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Nope. No track is completely safe, but some are more safe than others. It's up to each organization to determine which tracks are acceptable for their members/customers, and after that it's ultimately up to each individual rider.
 
speedfree

speedfree

New Member
Aww Jeezus.

Let me clarify some points, if I may, before the thread gets locked...

Looks like cbr_600rr_freak copy/pasted MY review of the track directly from the TPM forums. This review was after a day on the track JUST WITH THE TPM COACHES, which he didn't even attend. It's a pretty good review, HOWEVER:

In further review and discussion, obviously we took measures to increase the safety margin, such as the airfence outside the T5 entry and the T10 exit. We lifted the passing restriction to just the transition area between T4 and T5 - the TPM passing rule is similar to NESBA rules - outside passing only in Beginner & Intermediate groups...this would absolutely prevent an unsafe pass in that area, as T4 is not long enough to safely complete an outside pass before it would turn into an inside (illegal) pass on the entry to T5.

Of course there are safety concerns - but that's all they are.

Concern (n) - a matter that engages a person's attention, interest, or care, or that affects a person's welfare or happiness.

We all need to be conscious that there is an area of concern, which is covered in the rider's meetings and in one-on-one interactions with riders engaging in unsafe acts. Nobody, however, can GUARANTEE any rider's safety at even the safest tracks - take the tragedy at Barber last season as an example. NESBA runs Summit Main, and that track is FRIGHTENING, if you really start looking at potential places for impact & take in the wildlife factor :)

In riding the track, both as an elbow-dragging (FIRST! - T3) Blue group (NESBA "A") rider and as a Coach, I feel (my opinion) that the areas of concern have been addressed appropriately. The reality is that a bike MIGHT, on the WORST DAY EVER, slide far enough and fast enough to hit the airfence just wrong and flip over it onto the front straight, completely surprising the one unlucky soul who was tucked in and didn't notice the flying dust, grass, and mechanical carnage in time to avoid it. I would put the odds of that somewhere in the neighborhood of a NESBA rider perishing in a plane crash this year. It is highly unlikely.

Any time we hop on our race-prepped motorcycles and explore the limits of what they're capable of, the chance exists that we may meet our doom. Is that not a part of why we do it? TPM is not going to take unnecessary risks with rider safety any more than NESBA would. A number of very experienced track riders and yes, RACERS, evaluated the NCCAR facility and deemed it sufficiently safe for trackdays. In riding it, I personally feel very safe - it is wide, with sufficient runoff nearly everywhere. Some riders did hit the ground, and NOT ONE of them was in either of the areas of concern.

What's my point here? Everybody is "right." Have a fantastic season, y'all. I'm going to miss seeing you as much as I have in the past, but hopefully I'll make it to a few NESBA events as a guest rider :D
 
noobinacan

noobinacan

Member
HunterHughes;236225 wrote: I totally understand where your coming from but there is something to be said about 'dont knock it till you try it'. Its fun, fast, flowing and technical, feels a lot like roebling. That corner looks bad in track maps and possibly in pictures but as someone who has ridden it I dont see a way i could make it to the straight unless i rode it up there on purpose. There is enough of an elevation change to make even that difficult, not to mention a guardrail but even without that the angle and slower speed that you come into that corner at makes it (i dont want to say impossible but...) improbable that your bike would continue onto the straight without your help. Granted im not at warp factor 5 like some of the top A group/ CRs.

That said, the place is new and needs work... but mostly in its unfinished paddock:banghead:
cbr_600rr_freak;236229 wrote: Anyways, It's not a nesba vs tpm or anyone! I learned to ride a motorcycle with nesba and have no hard feelings against anyone of you because of our difference in opinions. I will keep riding with nesba as long as jra will allow. :) I'm just strongly opinionated. I see things one way when they are meant another. It's Internet. Hard to see what people mean by the words they type. Maybe when are the safety precautions are up you guys will ride then. Looking forward to a new season either way!


CCS# 108
TPM Coach
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Jason...
Haven't had a chance to, so I would like to congratulate you on your new recent role as a TPM Coach, recent race results at CCS race etc, all this in a very short amount of time.


JA and others like Calvin, Pitzer etc have aeon's of experience over you, me and most everyone else. years of experience in terms of track safety and event organization. After you have accumulated this wealth of experience, you can look at a picture or a certain situation and make a really good educated statement about what to expect. Also, due to this wealth of experience, they have a different perspective on situations vs you and I.

A really good friend of mine who recently passed away respected that experience and so do I. That experience is reality and not just some talk on the internet. if someone with way more experience than me is coming along and has something to say, I personally choose to listen and consider vs argue with them.


On the topic of 'try it for yourself'.
This is not the sport to 'try it for yourself and find out'.
That's the reason why you have classes, people spend $$$ to go to superbike school, so they can learn from someone's experience, vs find out. That's why you're at the riders meeting, that's why you're stopping end of a session to learn from CR's experience vs find out.

Do you want to 'find out' what happens when you cross the blend line early and make contact at VIR North with someone doing 180mph ?

This whole thread has been based on this one pathetic argument, which is 'hey...try it for yourself' and the above is reason enough NOT to play the 'try it' game.


edit: removed
 
denbsteph

denbsteph

Member
I want to put in my 2 cents worth on NCBIKE. I was there this past weekend, 19th and 20th, at first I was real nervous, based on all the different opinions about the track. I was placed in the "Red" group, which is "I" group with NESBA and I have to say I rode my ride and was very comfortable. I arrived Friday afternoon waiting for a couple of fellow Nesbians and was recruited to help put up 6 Air fences at turn 5, which is the 14 second left hand turn, called the Lollipop. Then placed 5 air fences at turn 10. I have to say this, in my opinion, I did not even notice the safety rail at turn 5. I hit the apex at turn 4 and transitioned into turn 5 without any issue. The riders who were there that weekend were great people, no issues with anything.

I heard several opinions about how NCBIKE is rough on tires. My tires were the same ones I used at VIR S/N, they still had the buggers on the sides when I arrived at NCBIKE. After a couple of sessions, the buggers were gone, the tires were scrubbed like new. I did not see that hard wear on my Q'2s. I did see even wear like crazy because of all the left and right hand turns but that was expected. It's like any other track, you need to be careful and ride with in your limits.

I got a tow from "Fred" on the third session of the first day, it is the fastest, safest session of my young TD career so far. I was riding hard but with in my limits and It felt great. The rest of the day, I was riding with confidence and not arrogance, hitting the apex's and transitioning with out issue. If you are thinking about going but not all that sure, you can PM me and I'll give you more details of the weekend and my experience.

cbr_600rr_freak:

Thanks for the hook up with Fred, he is truly a class act and thanks for your time on the phone the other day.
 
denbsteph

denbsteph

Member
The weekend I was there we did run clockwise, I have heard rumor they run counter clockwise, I didn't ask if they did. I'm new to this addiction and I enjoyed the track, I'm not a spokesperson for NCBIKE, I enjoyed it and I will probably go back.
 
speedfree

speedfree

New Member
They often run cars counter clockwise. Bikes will ALWAYS run clockwise.
Dennis, I enjoyed riding with you- glad to have hooked up! I can honestly say I always feel comfortable around NESBA riders, and you were no exception. Your skill set was already well developed, and your willingness to take suggestions to develop further was gratifying. Thanks for coming down!

...another fool on his phone.
 
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