NJMP Rule Enforcement?

[EngineNoO9]

Read some stuff on other boards about the NJMP rules and that they are very strict. What was everyone's impression with the days you guys have done there so far? Main ones was something in there about using metal or wood under all stands or jacks if you have to use them (sounds more like a car thing but kickstands will leave marks), and a few other odds and ends.

 

[hank]

Every kick stand I saw did have either wood or metal under it. Track stands were everywhere and none were on on wood/metal.

Given that the tarmac is so new and with the heat of summer, it is a good idea to have something under a kickstand. The place is clean and new, why wouldn't we want to help them keep it that way?

Everyone was nice and friendly and I never heard anything but positive stuff from the staff.

 

[EngineNoO9]

I was more interested in trackstands as I don't have a kickstand. Just using that as a reference for a rule.

 

[moto italiano]

The NJMP crew patrolled the paddocks both days last wknd looking for "violations". All bikes using kickstands must use a block of wood or metal (not chocks or wheelstands), no kids on pitbikes, maintaining low speeds in the paddock, etc were all some of the rules they were fairly diligent about enforcing. From my understanding, the track just tallies them up and charges the trackday org for them at the end of the event. For instance, someone puked oil in turn seven...ended up costing the org $550 for the cleanup. All said, all very reasonable things to keep watch on (imo)...also gives us a better understanding of what the good folks at NESBA get to deal with at every event they run!

 

[Glockem]

You should go to Barber then, as they require the same wooden protection for bikes, trailers, canopies, etc. Or at least that has been my experience at Barber requiring that.

 

[rk97]

I have heard mixed things from people regarding the enforcement of the rules.

Easiest thing to do is probably to acquaint yourself with everything here: http://www.njmp.com/rules.html, and be on your best behavior.

the kick-stand marks I understand, but I also heard they were telling people to park their bicycle if they didn't come to a complete stop at paddoc intersections...

 

[EngineNoO9]

moto italiano;5050 wrote: For instance, someone puked oil in turn seven...ended up costing the org $550 for the cleanup.

Maybe it's just me but I would think that would be assumed as part of the track's normal operating costs which are included in the trackday rental fees. Spills, crashes are going to happen unfortunately. Some days will run without incident and some will have crashes and their precious track will get marks in it as well as fluid on it. You clean it up and move on. Now maybe I'm naive and am used to summit where things are pretty lax but do all tracks charge extra for this stuff? Almost sounds like if you crashed and totaled your bike that they'd be the type of guys who'd come over and say you're going to get charged $500 for retrieval of the bike, damaging the ground and grass, and then insult to injury not having it on wood in the paddock when you bring it back in pieces...

Don't get me wrong I understand putting an effort to keep a brand new facility in good condition but I think you can take it too far as wear and tear is part of the cost of doing business.

 

[D-Zum]

No biggie...My Mom made us take our shoes off in the entryway before going any further in the house. NJMP wants us to keep their new house clean....and safe...it's not a big deal. They're strict, yes, but the new rules are not unreasonable.

 

[k6sinfiddy]

D-Zum;5088 wrote: No biggie...My Mom made us take our shoes off in the entryway before going any further in the house. NJMP wants us to keep their new house clean....and safe...it's not a big deal. They're strict, yes, but the new rules are not unreasonable.

:agree:Same here

 

[Vega]

How about this one...

"Motorized "mini-bikes" with a 14" wheel size or smaller are strictly prohibited anywhere on NJMP property."

I guess pit bikes are a no-go. :notsure:

 

[Travrsx]

I rode my CRF-50 all over the facility, and it has 10" wheels. nobody said anything. Track employees cruise in green Jeep Wrangler's to check the facility. Most of these just smiled and waved as i cruised around. I saw them "catch" someone without wood under their kickstand. All they did was say "hey pal, could you put something under your stand please? Thanks!" They're just trying to keep the place nice, its no big deal.

That being said, it would be nice if they came to know NESBA as the org where everyone followed the rules and didn't give them any trouble. its not that hard afterall, and a good reputation goes a long way.

 

[ridelater]

i was just there and the kickstand thing was big, caught my brother the one time he forgot. I didn't do it but i saw pitbikes everwhere, but twice i heard announcements about the kids riding pitbikes, which i agree some kids were flying around w/ no parents in site. also dog shit being left around. They stated it on there site that they discourage dog, but are allowed if you pick up the poop. I saw piles of it. I take my dog everywhere so i would hate to lose this privilege

 

[dwillits]

rk97;5069 wrote: the kick-stand marks I understand, but I also heard they were telling people to park their bicycle if they didn't come to a complete stop at paddoc intersections...

This probably stems from the fact that there were kids riding around all over the place without any concern for themselves or others. Weaving in and out of tight places and just riding like idiots. All it takes is one stupid kid to get hit and if that kid has the wrong kind of parents (lawsuit happy).....bad news bears for the track.

As for the kickstands; that just makes sense. I would want my bike to fall over AFTER punching a hole in the brand new tarmac.

--David

In my experience with NJMP, they are nice people. They have a wonderful facility (which will only get nicer as they near completion) and would like to keep it that way.

 

[rk97]

My version of Acrobat Reader wasn't up to par last night, so I was finally able to read the rules at work this morning.

Are the rules strict? yes. Will they be enforced to-the-letter? no. This is all legalese ass-covering. I don't quite get why they won't let a licensed, 16-yr-old drive a golf cart, but if it keeps NJMP's insurance company happy, and their premiums down, I understand why it's in writing.

 

[PatrickMitchell]

I've run two events at NJMP. They were friendly and helpful. It is a brand new, VERY NICE, facility. They are just asking that we treat it nicely (pick up your trash, don't destroy the pavement, be safe, etc). I saw them ask people to put blocks under side stands, and to slow down on the access roads. They were professional and reasonable (If you just read the printed rules it makes the place sound like a jail. It is not...). Go, you'll love it!

 

[Motomoon]

EngineNoO9;5085 wrote: Maybe it's just me but I would think that would be assumed as part of the track's normal operating costs which are included in the trackday rental fees. Spills, crashes are going to happen unfortunately. Some days will run without incident and some will have crashes and their precious track will get marks in it as well as fluid on it. You clean it up and move on. Now maybe I'm naive and am used to summit where things are pretty lax but do all tracks charge extra for this stuff? Almost sounds like if you crashed and totaled your bike that they'd be the type of guys who'd come over and say you're going to get charged $500 for retrieval of the bike, damaging the ground and grass, and then insult to injury not having it on wood in the paddock when you bring it back in pieces...

Don't get me wrong I understand putting an effort to keep a brand new facility in good condition but I think you can take it too far as wear and tear is part of the cost of doing business.

You may want to stay at Summit! Yes other tracks charge all kinds of fees and you will likely never see most of them because NESBA steps up and takes care of it for you. Places charge for things like per ambulance ride, tires left in trash cans, vp cans left in trash cans, oil spills, crash damage, spilling solvents in the paddocks...the list goes on.

Basically behave yourselves or we will have to ask your mom to come with you to the track!

 

[EngineNoO9]

Oh I know about some of the fees and I don't disagree with NJMP about wanting to keep the place real nice. This is my first exposure to a brand new track and from my understanding Beaverun when brand new was just as anal. Things will loosen up I'm sure as this will become more and more everyday business.

 

[antirich]

EngineNoO9;5085 wrote: Almost sounds like if you crashed and totaled your bike that they'd be the type of guys who'd come over and say you're going to get charged $500 for retrieval of the bike, damaging the ground and grass, and then insult to injury not having it on wood in the paddock when you bring it back in pieces...

Don't get me wrong I understand putting an effort to keep a brand new facility in good condition but I think you can take it too far as wear and tear is part of the cost of doing business.

Well, for comparison, if you crash your car into a telephone pole on the street, you'll get a bill for a new pole. At least, that's the law in NJ. Seems fair to me, you broke it, you buy it.

I think we're all getting used to crappy, don't give an F, tracks. If you want places like NJMP, Barber and Miller to allow bike clubs, you gotta treat them well. I'm sure NJMP could just rent the place out to the dozens of Ferrari, Porsche, BMW clubs in the NY area and do quite well financially. We gotta prove to them that bike clubs can play nice too.

In terms of kids riding around the pits, this has always been a pain in the ass with other clubs (can't speak for NESBA days, I've only done one). Too often, parents just let their kids treat the pits like their personal playground, and I've seen MANY close calls over the last 8 years. All it takes is one accident and the law suits will fly. And it's never the individual who's sued, it's the track, the club, the manufactures, anyone with money.

There was a guy who t-boned a car with his Porsche at California Speedway coming out of pit lane and killed the passenger. Clearly the driver's fault, but the family sued the track, the club, and even Porsche!

In terms of bike pick up, I always thought it was the club that did that. Kind of a strange way to make an extra buck. If I dumped my bike and they told me it would be $500 to pick it up, I'd push it back to the pits!

But back to the original issue, I'll agree, the track officials were pretty laid back and just gave people reminders of the rules. Just bring some carpet or thin wood for the stands and it'll be cool.

 

[EngineNoO9]

I don't think you can compare a car accident that killed 2 people and just crashing a bike. Plus that incident was a carrera gt having to swerve down the main straight to avoid hitting a car and then losing control of it and hitting a wall at nearly top speed. Widow of the passenger sued everyone under the sun because the trackday group was negligent in sending someone out at the wrong time, the wall that was struck was a temporary construction for a nascar event and had a leading edge to it which the car struck, and well she sued the driver's family and porsche out of spite. Completely different circumstance and didn't involve the speedway charging anyone.


On topic yes if you hit a telephone pole you have to pay. Once again I think a poor comparison as that's something you physically damage and a separate company has to pay to replace it. This isn't like sliding into the grass at a racetrack where as much as we want, unfortunately crashes happen. The tracks are all designed with it in mind that crashes happen and that's why there's runoff. Things that can be prevented are one thing like kickstand marks, pit bike traffic, littering, dog crap, etc make perfect sense to penalize for. Having a bike go down on track that busts a case cover spilling oil, it would seem to me that spills would be a somewhat regular occurrence even when extreme care is taken to avoid it and that'd be part of the cost of running business. Obviously the way contracts are written is that the fee you pay to rent the track doesn't include that and if it's a crash fest of a day, I guess the trackday org is going to get a bunch of fees. Whether that makes sense to me is irrelevant, just saying I would've thought it'd be different. I guess that's how some tracks work on making a profit much faster then others.

 

[antirich]

EngineNoO9;5316 wrote: I don't think you can compare a car accident that killed 2 people and just crashing a bike. Plus that incident was a carrera gt having to swerve down the main straight to avoid hitting a car and then losing control of it and hitting a wall at nearly top speed. Widow of the passenger sued everyone under the sun because the trackday group was negligent in sending someone out at the wrong time, the wall that was struck was a temporary construction for a nascar event and had a leading edge to it which the car struck, and well she sued the driver's family and porsche out of spite. Completely different circumstance and didn't involve the speedway charging anyone.

I'm not comparing bike crash vs. car death, I'm just saying that when someone gets seriously hurt or killed, survivors sue everyone, especially those with money/tons of insurance. This is why tracks like NJMP don't want kids riding around the pits, one incident with a vehicle and the law suits will fly.

In regards to the car incident at California Speedway, I thought he did make contact with the Ferrari, but either way, he did hit the wall. In terms of the club and track being at fault, well that's another argument. Think about on a bike day where we're let out on a hot track; is it always clear at pit out? Hardly. If I fly through pit out into the racing line and get injured, is that my fault? Damn right. And if pit out designs where a reason for law suits, then BeaveRun would not be able to operate.


EngineNoO9;5316 wrote:
On topic yes if you hit a telephone pole you have to pay. Once again I think a poor comparison as that's something you physically damage and a separate company has to pay to replace it. This isn't like sliding into the grass at a racetrack where as much as we want, unfortunately crashes happen. The tracks are all designed with it in mind that crashes happen and that's why there's runoff. Things that can be prevented are one thing like kickstand marks, pit bike traffic, littering, dog crap, etc make perfect sense to penalize for. Having a bike go down on track that busts a case cover spilling oil, it would seem to me that spills would be a somewhat regular occurrence even when extreme care is taken to avoid it and that'd be part of the cost of running business. Obviously the way contracts are written is that the fee you pay to rent the track doesn't include that and if it's a crash fest of a day, I guess the trackday org is going to get a bunch of fees. Whether that makes sense to me is irrelevant, just saying I would've thought it'd be different. I guess that's how some tracks work on making a profit much faster then others.

I'm thinking more of damaging a barrier or a peg taking chunks out of the pavement, things that will cost actually dollars to repair. I would think clean up labor should be part of the track fees, for after all, that's what the staff if there to do. That so called recovery fee is a bit extreme.

Making a profit from fees? That place is holding a 130 million dollar mortgage, I don't think a $500 clean up fee is going to effect their bottom line.

By the way, doesn't Barber charge riders for any damage to their turf?