steve gould
New Member
I agree. If you want to use the whole track, then by all means...do it. Be consistent, however don't consistently swerve!! Come out of six and get your a$$ on the left if that's where you wanna go.
North inside pass in I group
- Thread starter Unbroken13
- Start date
One inexperienced mans perspective:
I agree but to play devils advocate, I have had a couple of CR's tell me not to do this and it has been addressed in the riders meetings multiple times before....specifically not to jump left after 6. I was told the line is to make a smooth diagonal across, exiting from the outside of 6 and arriving at the outside of the track after the bridge. There is a reason so many people take that line, they were told to. The problem lies in the fact that it's not really addressed in the context of passing so I think it translates differently than intended to unexperienced ears (it did for mine). We talk about where to start, and where to end up...but not the in-between or alternative lines if safety dictates a change of plans. Since everyone is trying to float left, you often have to pass on the right. You are then clear of your pass post-bridge, then people try to slot in to that mark on the outside edge they think they should be on no matter what last minute. I have done it myself thinking I was doing what I was supposed to be doing.
After nearly collecting other riders that I couldn't see trying to squeeze out a pass on the edge, I hit the middle now like I used to. The biggest reason for me though is not having to grab the brakes with the bike cranked over heading up an off camber turn. It's a pucker moment I have had too many times and don't need. Tipping in on the outside points you right in the trajectory of someone coming up the middle who will get it tipped in first and force you to check up. my .02
Steve isn't insinuating that you need to swoop to the left immediately after turn 6, he's simply saying to work your way over there before the bridge.
The irony of the entire situation is the group that's most prone to swooping (B group) also is taking the corners the slowest. Food for thought.
I'm sure you can appreciate the distinct difference between your statement and his. I did speak to what I see happening on the subject in an attempt to clarify, which was the important part of my post. I think everyone knows that B group is the least experienced and slowest. That was part of the point. Sometimes people are so far away from a beginner mindset that they forget some of the supporting details in an educational experience. That wasn't so far in your past so I would think you would identify.
steve gould
New Member
I am a bit confused how my previous statement is distincly different than what Otto said. Let me clarify my statement a little more if I may. There are several lines through a turn but only one apex. It is a CR's job to guide you around the most efficient way they know how. If you are shown a line that you are uncomfortable with or flat out just dont like, you are free to take any line you wish. However, the line you choose should not endager others and you should ultimately arrive at the apex. The entrance to 7 being a prime example. If you want to take a severe wide line into 7 because you have been told to do it, you like it, or you are just intent on taking the scenic route, by all means do it. Just dont swerve over to the left at the last second pinching off an overtaking rider running them off the track or causing a crash.
1.) come out of 6
2.) get your a$$ to the left
Doesn't sound like "work your way over to the bridge"...it read like "get over early". Anyway I honestly wasn't looking for a semantic argument, or any argument. I know what you are referring to and was trying to offer some feedback as to why you guys may be seeing some of what you are seeing at that turn, at least in my group. This is something I believe to be the case wether or not I misinterpreted your statement.
2.) get your a$$ to the left
Doesn't sound like "work your way over to the bridge"...it read like "get over early". Anyway I honestly wasn't looking for a semantic argument, or any argument. I know what you are referring to and was trying to offer some feedback as to why you guys may be seeing some of what you are seeing at that turn, at least in my group. This is something I believe to be the case wether or not I misinterpreted your statement.
Godfather
New Member
See it to Believe it.
What NOT TO DO. REALITY is REAL. Myself and BMRBOY were almost involved in this craziness last year with another org. T7 imho is the turn most likely to have an incident. Get rear ended, someone cuts you off, tries to take you on the inside, low-slides in front of you, or high-sides in front of you at the top.
At the end, IT IS A TRACKDAY not a RACE. Stay consistent with your lines and no zig-zag. If you have the right line coming out of 5 and thru 6 you will be close to the left side of the track well before the bridge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NDKBhjdDso
What NOT TO DO. REALITY is REAL. Myself and BMRBOY were almost involved in this craziness last year with another org. T7 imho is the turn most likely to have an incident. Get rear ended, someone cuts you off, tries to take you on the inside, low-slides in front of you, or high-sides in front of you at the top.
At the end, IT IS A TRACKDAY not a RACE. Stay consistent with your lines and no zig-zag. If you have the right line coming out of 5 and thru 6 you will be close to the left side of the track well before the bridge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NDKBhjdDso
Steve,
As a relative noob, why do you say there is only 1 apex? The apex is the point you are closest to the curbing/inside of the corner. Depending on your line, you'll absolutely apex at different points, not to mention how close or far away from the inside you are.
Example of multiple Apex selection would be the classic pass by going deeper into the corner causing you to apex later in the corner but you get the bike stood up faster and pass on exit. Also, passing on the brakes/far inside the track, you will likely be apexing earlier in the corner.
Now the argument can be made that there is only 1 proper apex, but then there is only 1 proper turnin and 1 proper line as well.
madriders86
New Member
The different lines will converge, whether or not everyone apexes at exactly the same spot.
That's what I took from it, anyway.
That's what I took from it, anyway.
steve gould
New Member
You are right. You can apex a turn any where you want. But the true apex of a turn is the point in which the shortest radius of the turn can be acheived. There are several different lines that can taken based on riding style and preference. As in this thread there is dicussion of the varying line but the one constant is the apex point at the top of the hill we all try to hit. Turn 17 is another good example. I was trying different lines that would facilitate more conerspeed and early throtle application all the while avoiding the bumps mid corner My trajectory changed, apex point was always the same,
bmrboy
New Member
:agree: ...... 100% If you're looking for trouble .... T-7 is where you'll find it !!!
give yourself room between other riders , No last second passes .... there is NO run-off area ....
if you get tangled up with another rider ....it's NOT going to be good ..... FACT !!!! NO JOKE !!!
Don't be stupid ..... Be Smart .... Don't let your EGO get you in trouble !!!
Josh as this thread has gotten waaaaaay off track and turned into a turn 7 is dangerous fest I just wanted to say Classy post for you to make. You put it up full well knowing these things have a tendency to turn into a Witch Burning and you still did it. That is the kind of rider everyone here should be trying to be. It is a track day and while we all have goals and this is a very individual sport we tend to get into our own little world out there. Some hear Bach in their helmets, Some imagine fields of Unicorns and Rainbows. That said you have to be aware of others at an event like this and sometimes things just happen. No intent to check someone up or make them stand their bike up. Everyone is learning and when learning is part of the deal mistakes will be made. If they can be made where every one walks away and is smarter as a result fantastic. To own a mistake takes Balls and you have done that. Good on you Sir:congrats:
Now back to the worst day at VIR Part Deux
Turn 7 is like a lot of turns not a ton of room for error unless you are alone then blitz in there you can always go straight.
other areas of concern
Being forced off at the kink is dangerous
being in turn 1 with 25 other riders all taking different lines is dangerous
throwing a leg over a motorcycle is dangerous
get the trend here. At a track day give ample room, be patient and respect other riders thats all one can ask. To point out how dangerous a turn is because of an incident……My bet is someone has crashed hard in every turn on every track at some point.
Turn 6 at VIR holds the most fear for me as I have seen how bad it can go there.
The worst day at VIR has been discussed into the ground. Happy reading
http://tracktalk.nesba.com/showthread.php?t=26084&highlight=bmrboy
Now back to the worst day at VIR Part Deux
Turn 7 is like a lot of turns not a ton of room for error unless you are alone then blitz in there you can always go straight.
other areas of concern
Being forced off at the kink is dangerous
being in turn 1 with 25 other riders all taking different lines is dangerous
throwing a leg over a motorcycle is dangerous
get the trend here. At a track day give ample room, be patient and respect other riders thats all one can ask. To point out how dangerous a turn is because of an incident……My bet is someone has crashed hard in every turn on every track at some point.
Turn 6 at VIR holds the most fear for me as I have seen how bad it can go there.
The worst day at VIR has been discussed into the ground. Happy reading
http://tracktalk.nesba.com/showthread.php?t=26084&highlight=bmrboy
Peanut
Control Rider
That would be me...lol. "Little late on the brakes (couple times) & also minding my own business in turn 1 , little early on the gas in turn 2, minding my own business in turn 3, little late on the brakes in turn 4, trying to work on lines over the rumble strips in turn 5, late on the brakes & also early on the gas into & out of the top of turn 7, early on the gas in & out of 10/11, late on the brakes in turn 14 (couple of times), minding my own business in turn 15, on the gas down between 15/16.
Whew hurts just thinking about these..lol.
But I'm still working on ways to get around the track better & getting ideas from others. Unless you have the track record you still could do it better.
Precise lines are dictated by user speed, style & type of bike just like brake markers. Watch racing and you'll see that clearly even at the highest level. However like Steve said, there is a baseline of how to get around a racetrack, where turn in's, apexes & exits are. It is very easy for new riders to get so wrapped up trying to be on the "right" line that they don't really understand where they are on the track and how to get to where they should the correct way. Also, because of experience a lot of riders don't have the skill to be able to enter turns on different lines especially when passing or being in different spots on the track, maybe by missing a gear, being passed, etc. Sounds easy enough but when entering on a different line you now may have to use the brakes differently, body position changes, throttle input is different, reference makers moved, etc..I would say this is probably why rider's swoop to a certain turn in regardless if it's needed or not, trying to stay in their comfort zone at all costs. As experience & confidence changes you start realize (hopefully..
) what you need to or at least can do.
Unbroken13
Member
Thankx ruhe... I figured it would be a ruff post... Lol....