Oil

[JBGB3]

"There is some underground oil based religion that is out there."

Would that be the same sect that follows the prophets of marketing? The same prophets that built the Great Altar of Jiffy Lube, upon which offerings must be placed every 3k miles? Oh yeah, and those same folks have everyone convinced you MUST spend TWO MONTHS salary on the engagement ring.(sorry, that's a whole other thread)

 

[denbsteph]

Meat: With that being said, where does one get their oil analyzed? how long does it take for the results? Is it a simple answer or does one have to be a Scientist to read it and understand what it is saying? Can you post a copy of what an Oil analysis report looks like and what it means? What is the cost? I hate to be the question man, but the Oil door has been opened and several members have stepped inside. You can't leave us hanging high and dry now.

 

[Gorecki]

http://www.blackstone-labs.com

 

[denbsteph]

How often does one do a Oil Analysis? If it's after a weekend at the track or once a month, the Oil change is well worth it, it seems pointless to do the analysis. Especially at 25, 30 bucks a pop for the test. I'm assuming one does the test because of suspicions that the motor is not performing up to par, or because you have seen something while changing the Oil.

 

[Meat]

denbsteph;226867 wrote: How often does one do a Oil Analysis? If it's after a weekend at the track or once a month, the Oil change is well worth it, it seems pointless to do the analysis. Especially at 25, 30 bucks a pop for the test. I'm assuming one does the test because of suspicions that the motor is not performing up to par, or because you have seen something while changing the Oil.

You would do the analysis to establish an oil change baseline. You could do 6 track days and then get your oil analyzed. Blackstone will write you notes about the analysis that anyone can understand. Blackstone tests oil from all types of vehicles doing all types of duties, including roadracing sportbikes.

 

[Meat]

denbsteph;226867 wrote: How often does one do a Oil Analysis? If it's after a weekend at the track or once a month, the Oil change is well worth it, it seems pointless to do the analysis. Especially at 25, 30 bucks a pop for the test. I'm assuming one does the test because of suspicions that the motor is not performing up to par, or because you have seen something while changing the Oil.

I will leave the usefulness of the data up to you. If you know what the life of your oil is by praying to the oil gods then there is no reason why you would need any more information than that. But, if you are wanting to change your oil at a point before it is needed, knowing how long your oil should last, in your bike under your riding style, then you may want to know if your oil is good for 4 track days or 20.

 

[denbsteph]

Meat: The oil analysis makes sense now, I'll give her a whirl and figure out where to start with the "baseline". Thanks!!!

 

[denbsteph]

I like to play devil's advocate quite a bit, thats where all the seemingly useless, silly and sometimes derogatory questions come from. It's in my nature. I ordered the kit yesterday from Blackstone and will give her a whirl.

 

[Blueberry]

Meat;226877 wrote: You would do the analysis to establish an oil change baseline. You could do 6 track days and then get your oil analyzed. Blackstone will write you notes about the analysis that anyone can understand. Blackstone tests oil from all types of vehicles doing all types of duties, including roadracing sportbikes.

That was my initial strategy too. I tested my oil after ~6 track days to see if I could wait that long. Based on their analysis it was clear I could go much further. I now target at least 6 days and know that if for some reason I don't get to it until 8-9 days I'm still fine. I will also look to do it again this year or so to see how engine age/wear/tear impacts the analysis.

Each oil will have a different starting composition that Blackstone has on file and does the comparison against. There are several threads that talk about oil differences which are interesting reads too. I'll have to go back and figure out starting TBN numbers, composition, etc. The report attached is with Amsoil 10W40 synthetic with Honda filters in my '07 CBR600RR. At the time it had about 3K street and 3K track miles. When I do the analysis this season it will be after another 3K track miles.

 

[denbsteph]

Blueberry: Thanks for the PDF file. So it would be safe to say that you send your oil off at least twice a year under track conditions?

 

[Blueberry]

No, I just did the analysis that one time so far. Every other person that has done the analysis has had similar conclusions so that was enough to convince me to change the oil less often.

My CBR is track-only now and with 6K track miles is going strongHow often to do the analysis is a good question and probably the next step if you buy in to the analysis (several folks clearly do). I don't think most keep their bikes that long though for it to be worth it. I currently have 6K track miles and expect to have my bike at least 1-2 more years so I figured next season would be a good time to retest.

I'd be curious if others had thoughts on testing frequency too.

 

[denbsteph]

2012 will be the first season on this R6S, I probably will do a Oil test on or around the 5th or 6th, just for GP, considering the info that has been passed on in this thread. Thanks to all for their 2 cents worth.

 

[Meat]

I had my oil tested at various intervals, starting around 4 days. The last time I had my oil analyzed on my 636 it was around 8 track days and Blackstone recommended going 12 track days and testing again.

For me, I don't differentiate between track days and race days because I put far less miles on the bike during a race day but it spends almost all that time near red line.

 

[denbsteph]

Like I said earlier, I think spending time in the high RPM's will make a difference on how the oil responds to that type of torture. I'm just a track day crack head, racing at this point is more likely a dream. With that being said I still want to make sure that the oil is doing it's job.

 

[Zippy]

I always have to add my 2 cents.

My CBR929 went 65 track days on Rotella non-synth. It still runs like a champ after 32K miles. I changed the oil after every weekend more or less. That was probably overkill, but it certainly worked just fine. It probably would have been fine to go twice that long between changes, but the oil was so cheap I just kept fresh oil in it all the time.

 

[RADAR Magnet]

This is a really great thread; very helpful for a noob like me.

Given it was started a couple of years ago, the question I have is whether the Rotella stuff is still the bomb or whether it makes sense to go with something like Repsol or Motul? Do they have a material advantage or just good marketing? Also, anything to be cognizant of if switching from one oil to another or just do it?

 

[Blueberry]

I suspect most of the Rotella crowd is still hung over (with all their oil change savings they will have lots of extra $ to pay for more/better booze! ) but eventually they'll all chime in to agree with Zippy that it's great stuff. For folks that like to stick to a higher frequency of oil changes it's a great option. This guy also suggests Rotella and is a good read: http://motorcycleinfo.calsci.com/Oils1.html

I tried several (Honda, Repsol, Silkolene, and Amsoil) and settled on Amsoil because it seemed to lubricate my clutch/transmission better than the others. My bike has always required a rather strong push on the gear shifter to engage, which has been "solved" by switching oils and going to GP shift. Take this as you like, but Amsoil published some data that also makes for an interesting read- http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf Yeah, it'd be better coming from an independent source but still informative. I haven't tried Rotella because I want to change my oil as little as possible and I think the extra additives of the higher cost oils are advantageous.

If you still want to learn even more about oil: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

Enjoy!

 

[Bubba Zanetti]

Something weird, when I had the Honda VFR and was using it for track days I got tired of the expensive Amsoil changes. Not that Amsoil isn't good stuff, it is. So I tried the Rotella Synthetic 5w-40 and I swear the VFR shifted more smoothly with it vs. the Amsoil.

Go figure.

BZ

 

[Gorecki]

RADAR Magnet;227078 wrote: the question I have is whether the Rotella stuff is still the bomb or whether it makes sense to go with something like Repsol or Motul? Do they have a material advantage or just good marketing?

Most of it comes down to really what's in the bottle. Most makers have a range of oils and often you'll find relative quality will have relative pricing. Example, I use Motul 300V because it's a double ester Group IV synthetic (read good stuff maynard). I have been curious about the high end of amsoil but frankly have been so TOTALLY turned off from it because of really pushy pompous resellers. There's a large Rotella contingent but it is not marketed as (or produced to be) a motorcycle oil where situation involving wet clutches and really high RPM engines leave someone like me not so sure it's a good idea. But at the same time, I have no evidence to support it isn't!

 

[Bubba Zanetti]

Gorecki;227192 wrote: Most of it comes down to really what's in the bottle. Most makers have a range of oils and often you'll find relative quality will have relative pricing. Example, I use Motul 300V because it's a double ester Group IV synthetic (read good stuff maynard). I have been curious about the high end of amsoil but frankly have been so TOTALLY turned off from it because of really pushy pompous resellers. There's a large Rotella contingent but it is not marketed as (or produced to be) a motorcycle oil where situation involving wet clutches and really high RPM engines leave someone like me not so sure it's a good idea. But at the same time, I have no evidence to support it isn't!

Rotella is JASO rated for motorcycles, its right on the back of the jug. No wet clutch issues.

BZ