Q2 rear tire movement and suspension

Turbo329

New Member
This past weekend I was feeling my Q2 moving around in the rear a lot. Once the tires got some miles into them I felt them going off a little bit. Nothing scary but they were letting me know that they weren't happy.

I finally got them to grip by softening up the rear compression damping a couple of clicks and I had a really good session afterwards. Is this normal with the Q2s? I was running 30psi in the rear cold. When the tires were fresh the stiffer suspension worked fine but once the tires started to wear they became very sensitive to the suspension settings.

Is this a Dunlop thing or is it common with most tires?
 

jcurtis

Control Rider
N2
I run the q2 rear with 30 HOT. Sounds like too much pressure in the tire. Only slides a little with aggressive throttle and lean angle.
 

Landshark

Control Rider
A few things can play part in what you felt. Temp... Temp of everything actually. As the day goes on the initial cold PSI can change. If the rim is not cold that means the PSI needs to be adjusted. If you rode all day and the suspension got hot that also can play part in the feed back of the tire. The you have track temp etc... Also don't rule out YOU. You might be riding differently.

I'd suggest seeking some advice at the track. As rule NO it is not the Dunlops or a Q2 thing. And like Jim I ride at 30 rear hot and 31/32 hot front.
 

Turbo329

New Member
Thanks guys.

Yeah, I thought it might be me but it immediately got better when I softened the suspension in the rear.
 

Terminex

New Member
+1 on hot temp. I am finding that for the Q2's on the track 28 - 29 HOT works best for me in the rear. (tire of course you perverts)
 

DUNLOP-RTS

New Member
Turbo329;188379 wrote: This past weekend I was feeling my Q2 moving around in the rear a lot. Once the tires got some miles into them I felt them going off a little bit. Nothing scary but they were letting me know that they weren't happy.

I finally got them to grip by softening up the rear compression damping a couple of clicks and I had a really good session afterwards. Is this normal with the Q2s? I was running 30psi in the rear cold. When the tires were fresh the stiffer suspension worked fine but once the tires started to wear they became very sensitive to the suspension settings.

Is this a Dunlop thing or is it common with most tires?
This issue you are having is most likely an inconsistency with you as a rider and not being able to sort out what you are feeling on the track and correlating it to what is going on with the bike.

The first thing a new rider thinks is the problem is the tires. They don't think of everything between their butt and the tire, and there are many things that can play into this.

I would first look at you lap times. If you are 10+ second slower than the lap record for your bike class, you need to squarely confront that fact that it is you as a rider. That would be the first area to address.

I don't say this to belittle you. I just want you to address the CORRECT item, rather than going off and "Fixing" something that is not broken.

When you get to within 5 second of the record, then you can start seriously playing with pressures and fine tuning your suspension. Till then, ride, ride, ride.
 

Terminex

New Member
DUNLOP-RTS;188833 wrote: This issue you are having is most likely an inconsistency with you as a rider and not being able to sort out what you are feeling on the track and correlating it to what is going on with the bike.

The first thing a new rider thinks is the problem is the tires. They don't think of everything between their butt and the tire, and there are many things that can play into this.

I would first look at you lap times. If you are 10+ second slower than the lap record for your bike class, you need to squarely confront that fact that it is you as a rider. That would be the first area to address.

I don't say this to belittle you. I just want you to address the CORRECT item, rather than going off and "Fixing" something that is not broken.

When you get to within 5 second of the record, then you can start seriously playing with pressures and fine tuning your suspension. Till then, ride, ride, ride.
I'm going to have to disagree here.

Poor setup on a bike is going to give ANYONE trouble. A better rider will be able to overcome this to some degree, but they will not feel comfortable to push to their limit.

If you were running 30 COLD in the rear, I think your pressure was too high. On Q2's I am running 27 - 29 in the rear HOT.

If you run too much pressure in your rear tire, it will not be able to deform as much, and will not give you the appropriate size friction patch. - now this is based upon Ceterus Paribus - "All else held constant" in other words, always make 1 change at a time.

Now, I do completely agree with the abovce post that you absolutely should ride as much as you can.

My usual tracks are about 2.2 - 2.3 miles. I try to put in about 75 laps per track day. this is the best way to get better.

cheers
 

DUNLOP-RTS

New Member
Terminex;188835 wrote: I'm going to have to disagree here.
Feel free to disagree. Your first hand observation on PSI with Q2 has been noted, thanks. However I must point out that the missing factor here is his lap times. Your comment might very well be true, but there are to many factors to give 100% perfect answer to this rider.

I can say that a couple of PSI is NOT going to part the Red Sea and provide many second faster lap times. If our test riders can go within 5 seconds of the class record on a 100% stock bike with 32 PSI cold and Q2, then riders experiencing problems at 10+ seconds slower are not tire or PSI related. The first thing to address is the rider, the second is the bike, 3rd being tires.
 

Terminex

New Member
DUNLOP-RTS;188845 wrote: Feel free to disagree. Your first hand observation on PSI with Q2 has been noted, thanks. However I must point out that the missing factor here is his lap times. Your comment might very well be true, but there are to many factors to give 100% perfect answer to this rider.

I can say that a couple of PSI is NOT going to part the Red Sea and provide many second faster lap times. If our test riders can go within 5 seconds of the class record on a 100% stock bike with 32 PSI cold and Q2, then riders experiencing problems at 10+ seconds slower are not tire or PSI related. The first thing to address is the rider, the second is the bike, 3rd being tires.
I think we are in somewhat violent agreement on the majority of this:)

where I think we differ is your order of things to address. I would address the tires first as it is the easiest of all to resolve. next I would ensure that the bike is properly sorted out. Finally i would adjust the rider.

If my tires have too much pressure, they are going to make my rear end feel squirrely. this in turn will greatly diminish my confidence. this will dramatically cut my drive off corners as I will feel i have to ease up some due to feel / potential grip issues in the rear.

I do not disagree, that most of the issue may be the rider, but in working with other riders to increase their abilities, I find it easier to address the other stuff first, so that then when I tell them they need to do something specific on the track, they will have the confidence int he equipment. In most instances we are talking about a rider who is not 100% confident in their own abilities on the track. If they are only at 70 - 80% about their abilities, on a perfectly setup bike, imagine how they will feel when they think their is something wrong with their bike.

Finally, as I think we both have been alluding to, I can only share what has worked for me and the riders I work with. That does NOT mean it is perfect for everyone. I am confident though, that it is a good starting point.

cheers

FYI - I am glad of the debate. it is too often on these that we get one "knowledgeable" opinion, and then just a bunch of agreement. I like the opportun ity to be proven wrong, and learn something new, or if the concensus is that I am correct, hopefully someone else can elarn something from the discussion.

As an aside, last year I ran the bridgestones exclusively. I had to change to the Q2's this year, as they make a lot more sense for me right now from a financial perspective. After getting the pressures to what works for me I have been VERY impressed so far. Grip feels almost as good as my BT003 Pro's, but there is NO COMPARISON in terms of durability. I already have 4 full days on this set, and I should get 1, possibly 2 more out of them. I was LUCKY to get 2 days out of the race tires last year.
 

DUNLOP-RTS

New Member
Terminex;188853 wrote:

If my tires have too much pressure, they are going to make my rear end feel squirrely. this in turn will greatly diminish my confidence. this will dramatically cut my drive off corners as I will feel i have to ease up some due to feel / potential grip issues in the rear.
Point taken. We actually agree. The only point to bicker about would be at what lap time to address what issue. Since we do not have a solid lap time to base our discussion, we cannot arrive at a 100% solution.

However I will submit that I feel there is a lot of overemphasis on small PSI adjustments and their exact effect. I have observed fast riders make 2 PSI changes and it have no effect on lap times. While slow rider make 1 PSI change and claim (in a very over the top manner) that the bike is so much better/worse and it handles so much better/worse, and all this after the small PSI change. There is certainly some drama involved.

I DO NOT FEEL THAT PSI VARIATIONS FROM THE RECOMMENDED SHOULD BE EXPLORED UNTIL THE LAP TIMES ARE WITHIN 5 SECONDS OF THE CLASS RECORD. Pressures should be within a 1-2 +/- from recommended, and only explored when going fast (within 5 seconds of class record). To do otherwise is spending your attention on something that will not deliver results.

Lets keep this simple guys. Its a track day, not parting of the Red Sea Day. Go with the recommended PSI and have great ride!
 

Terminex

New Member
DUNLOP-RTS;188856 wrote: Point taken. We actually agree. The only point to bicker about would be at what lap time to address what issue. Since we do not have a solid lap time to base our discussion, we cannot arrive at a 100% solution.

However I will submit that I feel there is a lot of overemphasis on small PSI adjustments and their exact effect. I have observed fast riders make 2 PSI changes and it have no effect on lap times. While slow rider make 1 PSI change and claim (in a very over the top manner) that the bike is so much better/worse and it handles so much better/worse, and all this after the small PSI change. There is certainly some drama involved.
I think this may be another area where we agree for the most part. I do not think minor PSI changes will have a major impact.

Now, to clarify this I DO think that a change of 3 or 4 PSI will have a noticable impact on the feel.

Last item, is that while I agree a 1 - 2 PSI change might be minor, if the change is minor, but positive, yet at the same time it gives a major boost to the rider, to make him feel better on the bike, I do not see this as a bad thing. (I agree that it may be drama, but we usually need everything we can to get some riders to increase their confidence level.)

I also agree that inexperienced riders / mechanics should NOT be playing too much with their settings outside the recommended settings.

make sense?
 

Vet

New Member
Thanks!

What are you all recommending (PSI) first thing in the morning cold temps for the Q2's? I will be at CMP this weekend, scheduled outside temps of 100 degrees.

Thanks!
 

DUNLOP-RTS

New Member
Vet;204442 wrote: What are you all recommending (PSI) first thing in the morning cold temps for the Q2's? I will be at CMP this weekend, scheduled outside temps of 100 degrees.

Thanks!
32 front, 32 rear. +/- 3 psi
 
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