Question for those who've ran at Thunderbolt

[Matt H]

Sorry - I still disagree. With the examples you mentioned: Summit Main, race line on the straight is on the left side of the track. Any rider should stay over there unless over-taking. Even if you are slower. It is more dangerous to move to your right then just hold the line. It is the over-taking rider's responsibility to get around you. And you are not "holding anyone up" on the straight by being there. Same with Pocono East, but reversed. Stay to the right on the race line near the wall. It causes more problems by moving off the line, and is more dangerous. Hold the line and the faster rider will get around you. The over-taking rider shouldn't be worrying about or guessing when you are coming off the line, and when you are getting back.

 

[Manny]

PNorris;10278 wrote: Go ride with another Org. NESBA is trying to avoid something very bad from happening. If you don't understand that, that is your issue. Take your motard to the smaller tracks, however, it has no business on a track where it will be 50mph plus down on speed on the straights. That is basically insane. One missed judgment by a rider and somebody is going be life flighted out of there. Imagine a bike hitting you at 50mph if you are standing still. That is the same type of impact. Another org had an individual die in a similar scenario not to long ago. I do track days for fun and I don't want to risk asspacking some guy going 50mph slower. Stick to the small tracks on your motard. What is so difficult to understand about that?

If you cannot judge that you are approaching someone who is slower than you and make a safe pass then I don't want to be out there with you regardless of what type of bikes we are riding.

The bottom line is safety is first, but this has never been even remotely an issue anywhere I have ridden my motard, spcifically VIR north that has a very fast straight.

Folks are right that is is a slippery slope in terms of what bikes to ban for this. Are EX's not allowed? What about older SV's? How about hypermotards that will do 120 plus no problem. Are you going to ban people who ride the straight at 110 on 600's in the begginner group? Why not? This happens all the time.

 

[antirich]

Sorry, but if you have a 40ft. wide straight, not everyone is going to line up NASCAR style on 2 feet of track. People take different positions on the straight, especially in the slower groups. All i'm saying is that slower bikes tend to position themselves more to the right (in the case of Summit) expecting to be passed on the left. I'm not saying that a rider should come on the main straight on the left, then veer 25 feet to the right, then veer back 25 feet to the left. Not only is that dangerous, but it slows you down. You just need to give some room to others when you know you're going to get over taken.

With that track, i'd rather be passed on the left than the right, although both does happen.

And for those wanting to band motards, i'm waiting for your list of other bikes that don't meet your top speed criteria. Personally, the radar gun makes more sense, cause not everyone uses their bike to their full potential.

 

[mike_21]

antirich;10269 wrote: Let rephrase this. On the straights, there's not aways a defined 'race line' cause let's face it, you can pretty much be where you want to be after you leave the turn.....

If you're on the straights on a slower bike at any of these tracks, it's best to move over and give room to faster bikes till the turn comes up. Same goes for those on their first lap, or maybe someone getting used to a new bike. Yes, according to rules, you don't have to. But, it's pretty common courtesy to do so. No one wants to be labeled the guy/girl the gets in everyone's way.

Antirich,

I applaud your attempt at courtesy but you are mistaken. There is a race line on straightaways. If you remove yourself from the race line and then attempt to blindly rejoin the race line when approaching (or in) the brake zone you are potentially put riders behind you in harms way. The race line is not only important for getting around the track quickly, it is itself a safety factor for those who are following you. If you are on the race line and a faster rider wishes to pass, He or she relies on you keeping a consistent line so they can plan and execute their pass safely. The largest courtesy you can extend to your fellow riders is to show them a consistent line.


Mike

 

[JayhawkInDC]

Can we split hairs on this just a little more....This is getting me through an otherwise long and boring Friday at work!

While I see both sides of the debate, and there certainly are exceptions, I am happy that safety trumps a couple upset individuals....

That having been said.....the show must go on!!! This is going places....opcorn:

 

[PNorris]

When. . .

When you can see a slower rider clearly it is not an issue. The danger lies with a group of fast bikes approaching a slower one. That is when bad things happen. One bike may be shielded or blocked from getting out of the way. It is not too bad when the speed differential is 15-20mph, however, when it is 50 plus, that is where the problem lies. Frankly, I am not too worried about me, as I tend to be very aware on the track, however, I could easily be put in a situation where you or I are blocked in. I guess in professional racing, they should just race the 125s with the Moto GP class. According to your logic, that would not be a problem.

 

[Manny]

How about in the rain? Speeds are much lower....

Cause my tard has rains on it and my other bike slicks so if it rains i guess im screwed...will really suck after an 8 hour drive to get there and a day off work and no previous official notice or anything.....

And according to your logic regarding the 125's and moto gp together we should have diff trackdays for 600's and 1000's no??

 

[PNorris]

You have your notice

No tards on Thunderbolt. What could be better notice than that. What do you think the top speed difference is between a 600 and a 1000. Maybe 15 mph. What about a Moto GP and a 125 works bike, probably about 60mph or so. What do you think the difference between a Tard and a liter bike is . . . .? About the same I would venture. What don't you guys not understand. Keep the tards on the slower tracks. Christ, with your logic I should be fine on my bigwheel, as long as I give room on the straights. Look, I can peddle the shit out of that thing, however, why would I endanger me or others. The danger is not in single bike passing, it is when I group passes a slower bike. Why risk it??

 

[Manny]

PNorris;10313 wrote: No tards on Thunderbolt.

This is my last comment on this.

I read the FAQ, the riders manual, signed up for the day and read the sign up page, reciept and 5-day in advance confirmation notice and never heard of this.

Maybe I missed it. My fault if so, but where is it written for future ref?

 

[PNorris]

I agree

Manny, I agree with you. We need NESBA to put out an offical word and send out an email or something. I love Tards too, I am just a little nervous about what "could" happen given the wrong circumstances with a very fast closing speed. Frankly, I would be pretty nervous no that long straight with a tard. NESBA what say you?

 

[mike_21]

Geoff Doyer;8812 wrote: Motards will NOT be allowed to run at NJMP. These tracks are too fast and the closing speeds too dangerous. Sorry

I think Mr. Doyer has addressed it for those on this thread and I'm sure the staff will be updating communications for future registrations.

 

[Manny]

mike_21;10321 wrote: I think Mr. Doyer has addressed it for those on this thread and I'm sure the staff will be updating communications for future registrations.

I think updating for future would be good but it doesnt change things for those of us who are now screwed for the upcoming event

Edit: Sorry, this is my last post opn the topic!!

 

[2OLD]

OK, you guys are making me nervious! I'm scheduled to ride in B group monday, and riding a ex250. I saw nothing about restrictions signing up. I don't want to get a** packed, nor do I want to experince the total disregard for passing rules I had at Beaver last month, on an extremly fast track.

 

[rmgreen13]

This is stupid. This is a trackday right? Isn't it the rider and not the bike that controls speed?

You go on and on about how it is the passing bikes responsibility to make a safe clean pass, and then ban the slower bikes? If someone, or a group, on faster bikes can't make a safe, courteous, clean pass on a slower bike, they should be the ones to make an adjustment, or go home. Anyone can go fast in a straight line, there are no awards, let people have their fun.

Last trackday I went to there were groups riding at different speeds and you chose the one that best fits your abilities. Maybe you should try that... Or you could institute a qualifying session for your trackdays, and award pole position.

I guess I won't be doing any more NESBA days.

 

[grendels_arm]

Geoff Doyer;8852 wrote: We love Motards and I agree on some if not most of your points. Three of the MA Directors own motards for what it's worth. The problem is, Valentino Rossi can only go 110 mph down the straight and liter bikes will be going in excess of 165 or more. That is simply too much speed differential. Frankly, I'd rather make a few people upset over this then see someone die.

Hey Geoff will my RS250 be ok to ride there? I'm guessing top speed is 125-130 on it and definitely alot slower getting up to that speed than liter bikes. Are the straights at NJMP longer than Summit and VIR or something?

I just wanna find out before I sign up for the Thunderbolt course in November.

 

[EngineNoO9]

2OLD;10327 wrote: OK, you guys are making me nervious! I'm scheduled to ride in B group monday, and riding a ex250. I saw nothing about restrictions signing up. I don't want to get a** packed, nor do I want to experince the total disregard for passing rules I had at Beaver last month, on an extremly fast track.

What do you mean total disregard for passing rules? Passing in turns?


And the straight at Thunderbolt is shorter then Summit Main. I've seen true motards at main before and they don't fair well. 250's, 2 strokes, and hyper motards should be fine at thunderbolt.

 

[antirich]

EngineNoO9;10373 wrote:
And the straight at Thunderbolt is shorter then Summit Main. I've seen true motards at main before and they don't fair well. 250's, 2 strokes, and hyper motards should be fine at thunderbolt.

My Aprilia 250 would struggle to reach 120. How does that fair so much better than a tard' doing 110?

I've had more close calls with running into the back of big bikes on the 250 that I've even had with passing a motard on a track. No engine braking is some scary shit when the guy in front of you starts using it in a turn.

 

[squirrel211]

rmgreen13;10363 wrote: This is stupid. This is a trackday right? Isn't it the rider and not the bike that controls speed?

You go on and on about how it is the passing bikes responsibility to make a safe clean pass, and then ban the slower bikes? If someone, or a group, on faster bikes can't make a safe, courteous, clean pass on a slower bike, they should be the ones to make an adjustment, or go home. Anyone can go fast in a straight line, there are no awards, let people have their fun.

Last trackday I went to there were groups riding at different speeds and you chose the one that best fits your abilities. Maybe you should try that... Or you could institute a qualifying session for your trackdays, and award pole position.

I guess I won't be doing any more NESBA days.

I have to disagree with you. This place is way different than Summit Point; it maintains a high speed over a long distance in 2 different sections of the track, and those places aren't particularly friendly with passing (a blind turn, switchback S turns). Closing speeds between a motard (the ones I've been on track with) and an inline 4 are going to be dangerous. Dangerous in the wrong spots. This isn't just about outgunning somebody down the straight. On probably over half the track a motard is just plain going to hold people up for long stretches, or be in danger of someone closing in WAY fast.

I think motards running in the beginner group may be alright, if the motard pilots are A or I riders. Or maybe make a motard group for this track????

 

[LOrtega]

:doh::doh::doh:

 

[Geoff Doyer]

antirich;9290 wrote: So i guess we should be running a radar gun and clocking riders on the track and clocking riders top speeds on the straights? After all, if you're not running over 120 then you're a liability, correct?


Anyone who's ridden a slower top speed bike (motard, 250, 125, 500, etc.) knows that you stay off the racing line on the straights.

This is absolutely the best was to get killed on a racetrack. When I am coming into the braking zone at 50+mph faster than the rider in front of me the last thing I want to see is that rider NOT on the race line. Do I pass on the left, the right? Is he going to stay there, come over on me? :notsure: