Question on Body Positioning

[BonesDT]

Does the amount of body hang off directly correlate to speed/lean angle?

What about perfect form for the street? Even though you are at a street speed and modest lean angle, is it ideal to hang off the seat as much as you would if you were on the track dragging knee?

 

[Meat]

I think hanging off on the street is a very bad thing. It shows everyone around you that you are trying to go as fast as you can through a turn. Same goes for tucking behind the windscreen on the interstate. My BMW has a great air bubble behind the windscreen when I tuck, but I don't because of the perception it gives.

We already have a difficult time with our reputation as it is.

 

[avizpls]

^LOL full tuck for 25 miles to work everyday.

screw the perception. Its not reality.

But leaning on the street is just leaning. Dont hang off. The forces arent there to balance that way and you become less stable. Street and track dont really have a whole lot that crosses over like that.

Hang it off on the track, lean body only on the street.

 

[gkotlin]

BonesDT;142445 wrote: Does the amount of body hang off directly correlate to speed/lean angle?

What about perfect form for the street? Even though you are at a street speed and modest lean angle, is it ideal to hang off the seat as much as you would if you were on the track dragging knee?

Yes, your body position is relative, speed, line, pace and type of bike. See your local neighborhood Nesba CR for more details. Body position is best taught at the track where someone can see your riding.

On the street. You don't hang off the bike. You can't swerve effectively in the other direction to dive around a cell phone using mini van driver, if you're hanging off. Save that stuff for the track.

 

[TheGrouch]

avizpls;142450 wrote: Street and track dont really have a whole lot that crosses over like that.

Actually, I'd say the truly important factors crossover perfectly...


- Ability to brake as hard as the bike will allow, without locking up the front wheel
- Ability to accelerate hard out of a corner (or out of the path of an errant car) without spinning up the rear
- Understand how tight a line your bike can carve when leaned over hard
- Look where you want to go (not where you want to crash)

I learned these things on the track, with NESBA, but they made me a safer street rider.

 

[Trent1098S]

Very good points Chris!

 

[ronhix]

TheGrouch;142471 wrote: Actually, I'd say the truly important factors crossover perfectly...


- Ability to brake as hard as the bike will allow, without locking up the front wheel
- Ability to accelerate hard out of a corner (or out of the path of an errant car) without spinning up the rear
- Understand how tight a line your bike can carve when leaned over hard
- Look where you want to go (not where you want to crash)

I learned these things on the track, with NESBA, but they made me a safer street rider.

:agree:

 

[Ron P]

What you may want to consider for street use is what Reg Pridmore teaches. Rotate your pelvis around your gas tank. What that does is loads up your bike from the footpegs and spreads the inputs between the front and rear ends. It's not a full hang-off and gives you a good degree of control.

 

[vinny337]

TheGrouch;142471 wrote: Actually, I'd say the truly important factors crossover perfectly...


- Ability to brake as hard as the bike will allow, without locking up the front wheel
- Ability to accelerate hard out of a corner (or out of the path of an errant car) without spinning up the rear
- Understand how tight a line your bike can carve when leaned over hard
- Look where you want to go (not where you want to crash)

I learned these things on the track, with NESBA, but they made me a safer street rider.

:agree: I know it looks good when your hanging off while riding on the street I would save it for the track, it looks even better...

 

[rk97]

i'm guilty of hanging off quite a bit on the street. with questionable road surface, I feel it's that much more important to keep the bike as vertical as possible.

With that said, i'm on an EX500 on the street, so relative to a sportbike, my pegs are low, my bars are high, and the bike turns in quite a bit slower. On big touring bikes, I'd think it would be that much more necessary to get off the bike to pull it through a turn.

 

[jaren warren]

i'm guilty of hanging off quite a bit on the street. with questionable road surface, I feel it's that much more important to keep the bike as vertical as possible.
QUOTE]

I agree. I get nervous if I don't hang off a bit when on my street bike, with cold street tires, with unseen gravel/oil/etc.

 

[Blinky]

I know someone that told me that they were better on the street than on the track. We just laughed and carried on and I thought that was the funniest thing ever.

opcorn:

 

[Rydell]

You don't need to hang off on the street. The reason you hang off on the track is to displace your center of gravity to allow your bike to stay more upright, while cornering faster. If you are doing this on the street, you are probably going too fast - If you aren't going fast enough, you would look like a monkey. Just don't do it.

I did however do this accidently :doh: The first time I got on my bike since a weekend of track riding, it didn't occur to me I needed to slow down for an exit off the highway... by the time I realized I was going too fast not to hang off - it was too late... and hang off I did.

Guess I should eat my own advice!

 

[jfeagin]

Ron P;142493 wrote: What you may want to consider for street use is what Reg Pridmore teaches. Rotate your pelvis around your gas tank. What that does is loads up your bike from the footpegs and spreads the inputs between the front and rear ends. It's not a full hang-off and gives you a good degree of control.

It's been a while since I read it, but as I recall, Lee Parks talks in his book about just moving your upper body. Because you carry the bulk of your weight up high, just moving your head and shoulders to the inside of a turn can help without compromising stability. At least, it works well for me. I don't move my butt much, if at all.

 

[BonesDT]

Thanks for all the replies

Rydell;142739 wrote: You don't need to hang off on the street. The reason you hang off on the track is to displace your center of gravity to allow your bike to stay more upright, while cornering faster. If you are doing this on the street, you are probably going too fast - If you aren't going fast enough, you would look like a monkey. Just don't do it.
Actually, that's my point. Concerns about looking like a monkey aside, even if you are turning at a proper street speed, if you hang off, you can keep your bike even more upright, which is always a good thing, right?

Actually, my first question was more related to the track:
BonesDT;142445 wrote: Does the amount of body hang off directly correlate to speed/lean angle?

So, say I'm competitive racing around a hairpin turn on the track. Ideally, I'd be at maximum lean angle, knee touching, which means maximum body hang off. But say I'm going around a sweeper, or I'm doing a warm up lap, do I hang off less?

In other words, if I wanted to practice my body positioning, would I be practicing a single position (full hang off, which I would use in every track turn on all occasions), or would I be practicing variable hang offs, a little, a moderate amount, and full hang off?

 

[Mikey75702]

BonesDT;143555 wrote: Thanks for all the replies



Actually, that's my point. Concerns about looking like a monkey aside, even if you are turning at a proper street speed, if you hang off, you can keep your bike even more upright, which is always a good thing, right?

Actually, my first question was more related to the track:


So, say I'm competitive racing around a hairpin turn on the track. Ideally, I'd be at maximum lean angle, knee touching, which means maximum body hang off. But say I'm going around a sweeper, or I'm doing a warm up lap, do I hang off less?

In other words, if I wanted to practice my body positioning, would I be practicing a single position (full hang off, which I would use in every track turn on all occasions), or would I be practicing variable hang offs, a little, a moderate amount, and full hang off?

I do a full body movement even on warm-up laps to get myself in the habit of doing it. They say practice doesn't make perfect, Perfect practice makes perfect....... And as I was once told by a control rider, there is no perfect body position. Everybody is different, and so is their perfect body position.

 

[D-Zum]

The track and the street are two extremely different environments.

At every Rider's Meeting, the director usually states:

"When a Red Flag situation arises during a session..the track becomes THE STREET...get your hand up, foot out so that those behind you know you're coming off the pace"

...heard it so many times I can quote it.

As a NESBIAN, you become an ambassador to this sport and an advocate to "There's a time and a place to push your limits and your machine's limits." If you still choose to ride public roads, riding them using body positioning techniques you're taught on the track furthers an already existing negative public opinion that exists about us "Crotch Rocket" riders. That, and any local law enforcement that sees you doing that will undoubtedly pull you over and cite you for exhibition driving/wreckless driving, or both.

To me the skills and techniques you learn riding with NESBA do indeed make you a safer rider because you've extended your abilities. This sharpening of your skills occurred in a closed course environment. On public roads I feel they should be like that fire extinguisher behind the glass case that has, "IN CASE OF FIRE, BREAK GLASS"...only used in case of emergency.

 

[avizpls]

D-Zum;143583 wrote:
On public roads I feel [the skills and techniques you learn riding with NESBA ] should be like that fire extinguisher behind the glass case that has, "IN CASE OF FIRE, BREAK GLASS"...only used in case of emergency.

quoted for massive worth.

 

[dbakerpa]

On the street you can lower your upper body and drop your head into the corner. That leaves your butt in evasive maneuver position if needed. If you need to be off the seat you are going to fast for the street. Remember they dont clean the corners on the street,

 

[jfeagin]

BonesDT;143555 wrote: So, say I'm competitive racing around a hairpin turn on the track. Ideally, I'd be at maximum lean angle, knee touching, which means maximum body hang off. But say I'm going around a sweeper, or I'm doing a warm up lap, do I hang off less?

In other words, if I wanted to practice my body positioning, would I be practicing a single position (full hang off, which I would use in every track turn on all occasions), or would I be practicing variable hang offs, a little, a moderate amount, and full hang off?

I definitely start working on body position from the first warm-up lap. But I need all the help I can get. Not everybody does it, so far as I can see.

Another thing I've noticed is that I don't hang off the same amount (assuming I'm doing it anywhere near correctly...) in every turn. For example, take Summit Main. Turn 1-2, I'm as far off as I can make myself get. In 3, I'm a little less off and then even less in 4. Going into 5, I'm back to getting way off and do that for each turn through 9, for the most part. Into 10, I'm looking for max hang, but sometimes it changes depending on the traffic even though it's a fast corner.

I also try to watch what the CRs are doing. Not that I expect to match them, but seeing what they do helps me understand the demands of a given corner.