Race fuel questions?

[pajixxer]

So I am trying to find some answers on what type of fuel I should be running for this coming race season. I have a 07 gsxr 600 stock motor but with full yosh exhaust, factory pro velocity stacks, and ignition advance kit (+4 degrees), bmc race filter, and a PCIII. I have not had the bike tuned on the dyne but will be doin so within the next month.
Realistically my fuel options would probably be what the sunoco pumps supply at beaver, summit, Nelson etc...
So would it be to my benefit to have the bike mapped with my bolt ons with a higher octane then 93 and also what are the benefits of leaded/non leaded?

 

[LOrtega]

If you are gonna run race fuel Pick a brand and Octane and Dyno the bike with that Fuel....and Plan on using that fuel from that point forward...

If I were you I would think about a Bazzaz of a PC V that way you can save a pump gas map and a Race Gas map, that way you can just hook up a PC and remap...

 

[pajixxer]

Ya I have the power commander pc3 so different maps is an option I'm looking at... I am planning on picking one fuel getting it tuned and sticking with it. I'm just looking to see if it will be worth the extra money to use race gas then normal pump from your local station.

 

[vinny337]

+1 I ran race fuel to wards the end of the season and you can feel the difference of horse power. From what I understand the leaded are for the older bikes and have some type of lubrication for the engine. I ran the 110 unleaded in my 06 600 gsxr...

 

[Gorilla]

Get a pump gas map and your flavor race fuel map. Practice on pump race on the other your wallet will thank you. If you run U4.4 or MRX01 get it mapped for that and you can run pump gas on the same map with no issues.

 

[sobottka]

pajixxer;168296 wrote: So would it be to my benefit to have the bike mapped with my bolt ons with a higher octane then 93 and also what are the benefits of leaded/non leaded?

yes and no. you would probably benifit from a dyno tune but probably see no gains of any value by upping the octane on a stock motor. if you want more power out if your fuel on a stock motor, try vp's u4.4 with a dyno tune for 3-5hp on a 600 and 6-10hp on a 1000.

 

[noobinacan]

If you have not done upgrades such as
- Light weight wheels/sprockets (am sure you're already on aluminum sprocket..but can go to lighter weight titanium from Japan..lol

then that's what you should do first
Nothing beats less un-spring weight. The gains for lighter rotational mass is huge!
in terms of power delivery and handling.

sorry don't want to take it off topic..but everyone keeps working on power mod's and sprung weight reduction, while completely ignoring un-sprung weight.

 

[slowpoke]

noobinacan;168325 wrote: If you have not done upgrades such as
- Light weight wheels/sprockets (am sure you're already on aluminum sprocket..but can go to lighter weight titanium from Japan..lol

then that's what you should do first.....

lighter wheels would not be superstock legal so unless you're only running superbike, it wouldn't be an option.

Assuming you already have upgraded suspension, the money you would spend on wheels would be better spent on a supersport motor which should give you plenty of power especially if you ran race fuel in it.

 

[pajixxer]

Yes it is a superstock bike, and an ss engine build is not in the budget for this year, so I am trying to squeeze everything I can out of this bike when a lot of the guys I'll be gridded against are going to have very fast bikes.

 

[Meat]

noobinacan;168325 wrote: ...am sure you're already on aluminum sprocket..but can go to lighter weight titanium from Japan..lol

I would be suprised if running a Ti rear sprocket would be much, if any lighter. You are limited by geometry (width of teeth do to chain size, as well as the mounting flange), as well as vibration (normal modes), so even though Ti is stronger per unit density than AL, the AL is slightly stiffer per unit volume. And Ti is about 1.5 times more dense (weighs more per unit volume).

So, they may be able to make a Ti rear sprocket lighter than an Al one, but the difference would be pretty small, and the polar moment of inertia (effects how easy it is to make something rotate) difference would also be negligable.

Ti, is much more durable and abrasion resistant and that is why I would run a Ti rear over a AL rear, if they paid contengency money.

 

[slowpoke]

pajixxer;168373 wrote: Yes it is a superstock bike, and an ss engine build is not in the budget for this year, so I am trying to squeeze everything I can out of this bike when a lot of the guys I'll be gridded against are going to have very fast bikes.

MR12 will make the most power if tuned for it but it's very expensive and you cannot run pump on the same map.

 

[Mikey75702]

Cost vs return probably isn't worth the money. With the money you will spend in race fuel this year, you could get a nice Ss build. Last time I checked, cam 2 was like $7-8 a gal. I would imagine all vp fuels and most of bw fuels are in the same range.

 

[slowpoke]

Mikey75702;168405 wrote: Cost vs return probably isn't worth the money. With the money you will spend in race fuel this year, you could get a nice Ss build. Last time I checked, cam 2 was like $7-8 a gal. I would imagine all vp fuels and most of bw fuels are in the same range.

:agree:

U4.4 is roughly $13/ gallon

MR12 is roughly $25/gallon

Pump race (100oct) about $8.50/gallon trackside

 

[Dave561]

Problem is a good SS build really should have race fuel to get the full effect so you're still out the same $$

 

[Chad Dupree]

IMO, I don't think it's worth the money unless you have a SS built motor. By your sig line, your a WERA Ex. Unless you plan on running up front (finishing top 3) then I don't really think it's worth it, and if your running top 3 in the Expert class then you'll need a SS built motor. I say save the money you'd be spending on race gas and put it in a savings account toward a good SS built motor for the next year.

FWIW, I ran a stock 750 motor in the 750 superbike class and 1000 superbike class and did fairly well. Got a couple of podiums in the 750 class and held my own in the 1000 class. All with everybody else having a SS build and race gas. The guys that are running in the top 3 in those Expert classes, beat me because they have more skill than I do, and the 5-7 hp that race gas was gonna give me wasn't gonna change that. You can have all the power in the world, but if you don't have the skill to use all that power, it's useless. races are won in the corners, not the straights.

This all just IMO, good luck with what ever you decide.

 

[Mikey75702]

slow_honda;168408 wrote: Problem is a good SS build really should have race fuel to get the full effect so you're still out the same $$

Yeah but he doesn't have that. So he stays with pump gas this year, does a Ss build over the winter then starts using race fuel.

 

[rk97]

Chad Dupree;168413 wrote: By your sig line, your a WERA Ex.

let's back the bus up and talk about when this happened! I knew you were doing well this season, but I didn't know you racked up that many points. How many races did you even start?

Damn dude...

FWIW Brad, I am not a fan of "consumable" horsepower gains, unless you really can (and will) run separate maps for practice and races.

Otherwise you're just punching yourself in the junk (err... wallet) every time you fill up the bike. They don't award any points for being fast in practice.

 

[sobottka]

Mikey75702;168405 wrote: Cost vs return probably isn't worth the money. With the money you will spend in race fuel this year, you could get a nice Ss build. Last time I checked, cam 2 was like $7-8 a gal. I would imagine all vp fuels and most of bw fuels are in the same range.

this depends on your perspective. i used about 14 or 15 cans of u4 last year, 15 cans @$75=$1125 in race fuel. race fuel gives me an extra 4hp (on a 600) for $1125. where can you get a supersport build that adds 4hp for $1100?
*i ran the same map for pump gas on track days and all practices

 

[Mikey75702]

sobottka;168502 wrote: this depends on your perspective. i used about 14 or 15 cans of u4 last year, 15 cans @$75=$1125 in race fuel. race fuel gives me an extra 4hp (on a 600) for $1125. where can you get a supersport build that adds 4hp for $1100?
*i ran the same map for pump gas on track days and all practices

You did pretty good then. I was thinking along the lines of what my bike drinks and how many races I would enter. I am no where close to fast, but my bike can still drink ten gallons a day, that would be mighty expensive. With those figures and a dozen weekends throughout the year I should be able to afford an engine build.

With that said, will the extra 4 HP make the difference between 1st and 2nd?? Or even the difference between winning contingency money or not?? If you are mid pack and trying for 7th instead of 8th, probably best to save the money... YMMV

 

[sobottka]

Mikey75702;168515 wrote: You did pretty good then. I was thinking along the lines of what my bike drinks and how many races I would enter. I am no where close to fast, but my bike can still drink ten gallons a day, that would be mighty expensive. With those figures and a dozen weekends throughout the year I should be able to afford an engine build.

With that said, will the extra 4 HP make the difference between 1st and 2nd?? Or even the difference between winning contingency money or not?? If you are mid pack and trying for 7th instead of 8th, probably best to save the money... YMMV

at most tracks, on my 600 i use about 1 1/4 gallon per sprint so for 4 races i need just over 5 gallons or 2 cans.
as far as does 4 hp make a difference? you can pour it in and feel the power difference so for me it does. just like a dyno tune, aftermarket suspension, fancy levers, bodywork, motor build or anything else that cost money above and beyond the bare minumum required for track /race use, it all adds up. like my buddy jason temme (one of the smartest racers i've known) said about rear brake rotor lightening "its worth a 1/10th" and shrugged his shoulders just like this ---> :dunno: