Road Atlanta April 6th/7th Roll call!
- Thread starter Otto Man
- Start date
Well in this case, we were taking it easy on the first session. That was why it was so unexpected.
Getting info on the other guy is coming 3rd hand and kind of sketchy... Seems he has some liver and kidney damage and is in and out of consciousness. Not sure if just blunt trauma, or if he broke a rib and it punctured something? It wasn't a fast crash, if we were going more than 40mph I would be amazed.
Will keep trying to get details and post them as I get them. Still have not gotten a name yet. They checked him into the Hospital under John Doe because nobody could find his wallet or ID.
Getting info on the other guy is coming 3rd hand and kind of sketchy... Seems he has some liver and kidney damage and is in and out of consciousness. Not sure if just blunt trauma, or if he broke a rib and it punctured something? It wasn't a fast crash, if we were going more than 40mph I would be amazed.
Will keep trying to get details and post them as I get them. Still have not gotten a name yet. They checked him into the Hospital under John Doe because nobody could find his wallet or ID.
I think that one other point of confusion of the control riders, is that at least one of them was not wearing the orange shirt that would mark them as a CR. I saw that on the one other session that I did go back out on before my shoulder and knee started tightening up, forcing me to abandon the rest of the day.
I saw on that session a rider or two that were dangerously slow, like doing maybe 90mph on the back straight where literbikes were pulling 150+, and there was no CR with them, keeping them a bit off the raceline so that people coming through the kink and over the blind hill wouldn't find a rider wandering around the raceline at little more than half the speed.
My comments on the number of CR's was based on what I saw, what Earl told Donna, and what "Bob" from NESBA corporate admitted on the phone, that not having enough CR's on the track was a known concern of theirs in general.
Not sure if that clears things up or not, but I guess we can move on from that point regardless.
I have done several track days through NESBA in the past, and always enjoyed them. Never had an issue or concern. This was the first incident that I have had at a track day with them, or with any group for that matter. Law of averages said it had to happen sooner or later, guess it was just my turn.
I saw on that session a rider or two that were dangerously slow, like doing maybe 90mph on the back straight where literbikes were pulling 150+, and there was no CR with them, keeping them a bit off the raceline so that people coming through the kink and over the blind hill wouldn't find a rider wandering around the raceline at little more than half the speed.
My comments on the number of CR's was based on what I saw, what Earl told Donna, and what "Bob" from NESBA corporate admitted on the phone, that not having enough CR's on the track was a known concern of theirs in general.
Not sure if that clears things up or not, but I guess we can move on from that point regardless.
I have done several track days through NESBA in the past, and always enjoyed them. Never had an issue or concern. This was the first incident that I have had at a track day with them, or with any group for that matter. Law of averages said it had to happen sooner or later, guess it was just my turn.
JRA
New Member
This post is meant to further my other post and offer facts, nothing more.
First. not sure why he would be John Doe. We gave his name and all emergency information to EMS before he even left the track.
Second, it's common practice for one of us to be out there without a shirt. It's easier to catch speeders in an unmarked car. To avoid confusion her this wasn't the case in this first session of the day. All the CR's had shirts on.
Third. Bob O is in Pennsylvania and his job is administrative. He only been to a handful of trackdays in his whole life. If you want or need accurate info concerning anything outside of administrative information then a regional director, or DJ, or Bob B are where you can obtain reliable information. I have never had one conversation ever where having enough CR's was an official concern of the organization. Unofficially we could always use more help. Not from a safety standpoint but from the standpoint of making the CR duties easier. Being a CR is a lot of work and it would often be nice to take a few sessions off and still have five or six guys out on the track. But just like in my business in theory it would be great to have a lot more help building a house, but I can promise my customer doesn't want just anybody who can swing a hammer putting up their crown molding. I already mentioned we had six CR's on track, and for the number of riders on track at that time at most it was a 1 to 7 ratio. That is more than sufficient.
Lastly, we make every effort to help out the slower riders both by helping them improve, and also by getting them out of harms way if necessary.
I've read through this thread carefully and I don't see any suggestions as to how we could have prevented this particular crash.
First. not sure why he would be John Doe. We gave his name and all emergency information to EMS before he even left the track.
Second, it's common practice for one of us to be out there without a shirt. It's easier to catch speeders in an unmarked car. To avoid confusion her this wasn't the case in this first session of the day. All the CR's had shirts on.
Third. Bob O is in Pennsylvania and his job is administrative. He only been to a handful of trackdays in his whole life. If you want or need accurate info concerning anything outside of administrative information then a regional director, or DJ, or Bob B are where you can obtain reliable information. I have never had one conversation ever where having enough CR's was an official concern of the organization. Unofficially we could always use more help. Not from a safety standpoint but from the standpoint of making the CR duties easier. Being a CR is a lot of work and it would often be nice to take a few sessions off and still have five or six guys out on the track. But just like in my business in theory it would be great to have a lot more help building a house, but I can promise my customer doesn't want just anybody who can swing a hammer putting up their crown molding. I already mentioned we had six CR's on track, and for the number of riders on track at that time at most it was a 1 to 7 ratio. That is more than sufficient.
Lastly, we make every effort to help out the slower riders both by helping them improve, and also by getting them out of harms way if necessary.
I've read through this thread carefully and I don't see any suggestions as to how we could have prevented this particular crash.
D-Zum
My 13 year old is faster than your President
It is the responsibility of the faster rider to pass for the comfort of the slower rider. The race line belongs to the rider that has it..slower or faster..and if a faster rider comes up on a slower rider, then it's the faster rider's responsbility to alter his or her path in order to proceed so both riders continue on their way safely and uninterrupted.
I do not blame you for the crash, nor do I think that you could have prevented it. So there is no need to be defensive or circle the wagons.
It was more of an observation. Maybe I was right, maybe I wasn't. I can only report on what I saw or think that I saw.
I did not start the conversation, I simply chimed in when I saw others talking about the "2 guys that crashed"... I said several times why I think the crash occurred. The rider in front of me seemed nervous, his lines were shaky, he would brake hard when it wasn't necessary, and he did so when leaned over in turn 5 and lost the front, and both he and the bike slid into my line and I was caught up in it.
Honest mistake, not the first time, won't be the last. It is what it is.
The comment about the CR's was merely an observation I made. I remember when I was there last summer with STT, they had everyone in Novice broken into groups of 6 or 7 riders max, each with their own CR. There were 6 or 7 groups in Novice, and what I saw on Saturday was nothing like that. They also had classroom time and extra help for newbies.
Before this turns into a pointless flamewar about which track group is better and all that nonsense... Don't. It isn't about that, and getting emotional and defensive when you are not under attack serves no purpose.
I am just gonna bow out now, because I can already see where this is headed. Into the sandbox like most internet discussions, where everyone flexes their ePenis and becomes a keyboard-commando and people who were not even present will jump in with their expert testimony, etc...
There was a crash. It sucked. I am fine, and I hope the other guy is too and I will post those details as I get them. Thanks.
There was a crash. It sucked. I am fine, and I hope the other guy is too and I will post those details as I get them. Thanks.
D-Zum
My 13 year old is faster than your President
What I said was almost a verbatim quote from the 100+ Rider's meeting I've attended in the last 11 years.
John, Matt and I are not flexing anything here. We're sharing experience.
We're glad you're OK and hoping the other rider involved makes an expedient recovery as well.
JRA
New Member
They do, and they also help us identify riders; problem or otherwise.
SquireSCA,
My intention is expressly to state what the facts are as I know them. There is so much speculation in this thread that people don't know what to think. You stated what happened, what you were told, and what you thought about it earlier. I purposefully tried to make a post that stated what actually happened in order that people who are concerned might know what is accurate and what isn't. This thread is getting quite long and you re-stated parts of your earlier post with no mention of what I said. Many will only read what is being said now so I made the decision to make my points again, but also to try and do so clearly so there is no ambiguity. The very first thing I wrote was that the post was to add some information to my first post so that the facts were clear for everyone to read. I don't have any interest in being defensive about this because it won't change a thing and it's a waste of time. My purpose in this thread is to limit as best I can misinformation about what happened.
noobinacan
Member
Hey man..hope you have a speedy recovery.
Hope the guy who was airlifted has a speedy and 100% recovery too
Just think through what you said there for a minute...
Everyone here is showing nothing but sympathy for you and certainly for the rider airlifted.
I know, but I have seen countless threads start out one way, and go completely sideways as it turns into an internet debate, where the battle ground is far from the original topic. I simply don't want to go that road.
The crash is what it is. A rider made a simple mistake that put him on the ground. I am guessing that 75% of the people reading this have been there at some point in their career, and if not, one day they likely will. It became worse when his crash slide into another rider's line and put him(me) down. That was where it got really ugly.
Trust me, I have spent days wondering what I could have done differently... How it might have been avoided, etc. I just don't know. I can say in retrospect that I could have done a simple slow speed pass on a straight(under the yellow flag), which might have made a CR angry, but would have saved me a lot of pain, $3k in damage to my 1198, and possibly saved the other rider a helicopter ride. I wanted to, but decided to play by the rules and not pass, as I didn't want to get black flagged on the warm up lap.
I could have ride way back from him, but then I would be holding everyone else on the track up because they wouldn't be able to pass either.
What if I did pass him, but then it was another rider, like my girlfriend that got caught up when he went down? Wouldn't want that on my conscience.
I have run at least 100 scenarios through my head since this happened, and I have not come up with an answer. I keep coming back to it is just one of those things. It happened. I can simply deal with it.
Dave,
First of all I am glad your Ok.... Second of all shit happens...
ALL orgs have days like this and sometimes things just cant be avoided... Hell last year at a STT Event we had a guy
whose front wheel locked up due to a chinese lever... He couldnt put his hands up because he pulled clutch in and didnt know what to do.. Came to a dead stop going in the Esses first lap on Saturday.... I clipped the left rear of him then the guy behind me went over his front fairing doing a stoppie.....This was the first lap.. first session first day.... ACCIDENTS HAPPEN...
Regardless of the people that frown upon Orgs for days like this will never get it.... Hey Squire if you need a bike for the next event until your DUC gets fixed hit me up....
Marc
First of all I am glad your Ok.... Second of all shit happens...
ALL orgs have days like this and sometimes things just cant be avoided... Hell last year at a STT Event we had a guy
whose front wheel locked up due to a chinese lever... He couldnt put his hands up because he pulled clutch in and didnt know what to do.. Came to a dead stop going in the Esses first lap on Saturday.... I clipped the left rear of him then the guy behind me went over his front fairing doing a stoppie.....This was the first lap.. first session first day.... ACCIDENTS HAPPEN...
Regardless of the people that frown upon Orgs for days like this will never get it.... Hey Squire if you need a bike for the next event until your DUC gets fixed hit me up....
Marc
Hey Marc! No worries, I am back to about 95% today. Ordering new plastics soon, the other odds and ends are already fixed. Getting a Xerox painted set, like Checa used last couple years.
I appreciate the offer on a loaner, but I still have an '11 Speed Triple 1050 that I can use if a track day comes up before the Duc gets fixed. Already had it out on Tally a few times, lot of fun.
Still no word on the other guy. :-(
