Rode with TPM for the first time today.

4everwikid

New Member
I've had minor complaints with things that have happened while attending a NESBA track day. Some things get resolved, and others not so much. It is what it is, but one thing I'll give the people who are running things here. You've got your shit together better than that organization. Way more organized, and structured. I've predominately ridden with NESBA so the comparison may be biased, and it was my first trackday with them. However, my first impression wasn't a good one. It really sucks that this organization doesn't have more weekend dates at NJMP as it's only 20-25 minutes from my house. The point in this thread isn't to bash TPM, but to give this organization kudos for a job well done. Hopefully more weekends will be available next year at NJMP.
 

Turbo329

New Member
4everwikid;250236 wrote: I've had minor complaints with things that have happened while attending a NESBA track day. Some things get resolved, and others not so much. It is what it is, but one thing I'll give the people who are running things here. You've got your shit together better than that organization. Way more organized, and structured. I've predominately ridden with NESBA so the comparison may be biased, and it was my first trackday with them. However, my first impression wasn't a good one. It really sucks that this organization doesn't have more weekend dates at NJMP as it's only 20-25 minutes from my house. The point in this thread isn't to bash TPM, but to give this organization kudos for a job well done. Hopefully more weekends will be available next year at NJMP.
Please, don't take this the wrong way. Every club has it's pros and cons. No club is perfect as it's made up of imperfect people. I ride with every club that runs in the Northeast and I try not to look at the negatives. Yes there are some but I choose to focus on the positives and unless there is a major hazard to safety I usually don't complain or start pointless threads about how things aren't perfect. I'm just there to ride and not be a hazard myself.

If the intent of your thread wasn't to bash TPM as you've stated, then you could've just left the TPM part out and gave NESBA kudos for running a good show. My $0.02
 
What he said^. Also, they are hard to compare as they are vastly different organizations. NESBA is awesome but they are more about structure and track time while tpm is more about coaching and as a result have more new riders to cater to. Just depends what you like, but why name names?
 

Mr.DJ

New Member
HunterHughes;250304 wrote: What he said^. Also, they are hard to compare as they are vastly different organizations. NESBA is awesome but they are more about structure and track time while tpm is more about coaching and as a result have more new riders to cater to. Just depends what you like, but why name names?
That is great feedback.

In your opinion, what is it about the coaching that is lacking with NESBA?

-- Is the the quality, quantity or both?
-- Is your experience in a particular region or NESBA wide?

You can email me if better for you.

Thanks
 

Mr.DJ

New Member
4everwikid;250236 wrote: I've had minor complaints with things that have happened while attending a NESBA track day. Some things get resolved, and others not so much. It is what it is, but one thing I'll give the people who are running things here. You've got your shit together better than that organization. Way more organized, and structured. I've predominately ridden with NESBA so the comparison may be biased, and it was my first trackday with them. However, my first impression wasn't a good one. It really sucks that this organization doesn't have more weekend dates at NJMP as it's only 20-25 minutes from my house. The point in this thread isn't to bash TPM, but to give this organization kudos for a job well done. Hopefully more weekends will be available next year at NJMP.
Thanks for taking the time to post and share your opinion. Each club has its strengths.
I am curious to the items you feel are lacking with NESBA. If you don't mind sharing, please post.

DJ
 
My first instinct was to privatly email you but i figured it would be better if others could read my post and rebute/ agree with my opions. So..

In my experiance the major differance between NESBA and TPM is the CR's (coaches for TPM). In NESBA the CR's are the wise old(er) men of the paddock, their racing days are past but still fast as hell and will definatly teach you loads over the course of a session, and you will never see one of them make a bad decision. It is clear though that their main purpose is to enforce the rules and correct riders who do not follow them or are struggling in their riding and causing others to make bad decisions in frustration. They are the enforcers of the law and the testers of your skill/ decision making ability (for the all-mighty bump). With them a getting bump is MUCH harder to come by and pure speed will not get you into A group, you have to show more.

With TPM it is a different world, and the differance is stated in the name; 'coaches', not 'control' riders. It is evident from the second the rider meeting breaks. After the break the B and I groups go to private classroom sessions with some of the most seasoned coaches as the A takes the first session of the day. They talk to you about body position, throttle control, lines and brake points in an off track environment before you get out there in the heat of it, and the first sessions for B and I are run with no passing to get everyone warmed up. You can then choose to go back to the classroom and get more time with the senior coaches or not (classes go to lunch). Now, on to the coaches, for the most part they are much younger than NESBA CRs and almost all of them are amatuer racers. This has a double-edged sword-effect as they have less experiance and their judgement can be jaded by skill/ tetosterone but there are more of them and they have a lot more time to work with individuals on/ off track. Also, you can pay 50$ to privately work with the coach of your choice for the afternoon (awesome). The downside of all this is that the rules are not as strictly enforced and i have seen one of their coaches even make a questionable decision when towing a fast rider (granted few and far between). Even from the upper management it feels like a 'softer' or less organized group but its only really evident in the little things. I.E. their crash truck is a van and may have a dog in it lol.

I told a friend recently that NESBA feels like a well-oiled buisness with a solid structure and rules while TPM feels like a bunch of guys who rented a track soley to teach people to ride. Different styles but i will say NESBA pushes me to ride faster while TPM better teaches me how to do so.

Just to be clear, I love both orgs. If i had do choose and were an older, more experianced rider i would choose NESBA but if i were a new rider, i would choose probably choose TPM.
 

worldrider929

New Member
HunterHughes;250323 wrote:

In NESBA the CR's are the wise old(er) men of the paddock, their racing days are past but still fast as hell and will definatly teach you loads over the course of a session, and you will never see one of them make a bad decision . . . Now, on to the coaches, for the most part they are much younger than NESBA CRs and almost all of them are amatuer racers . . . If i had do choose and were an older, more experianced rider i would choose NESBA but if i were a new rider, i would choose probably choose TPM.
Great, now I REALLY feel old. Just what I needed. Thank you so much . . . :argh:
 

dbakerpa

Member
In my experience the CRs with NESBA will always take time to show and explain what to do and why you want to do it. As for older guys. I am old so if 30 something is old so be it. The only problem I have ever seen with NESBA is lack of CRs. Still - I find them responsible for the success I have had at the track. TPM has strong points - I will leave it at that, but none of them make it better in any way in comparison. I will say that the skills day was the best experience I ever had with NESBA and they need more. Nothing builds skill like a 400-500 mile day on the track. I dropped four seconds a lap after that.
 

ericlouie1

New Member
I enjoy riding with both groups, passing in the corners in the white group is great, but on the same token, i realize that not everyone is ready to make a clean pass, not is everyone ready to be passed mid-corner.
With NESBA, I've learned more to "read" riders, learn their habits, and make a pass using more space, and drive on the exit of a corner, this makes me a bit slower in sections than some in TPM, but it is purposeful, as I do not want to be pushed off the track, nor do i want to startle a new-rider into making a mistake. However, on the same token, passing in a slower environment has made me less nervous to be passed, as i do not become unhinged at the sound of a motorbike screaming past me when i (feel like) am at a good lean angle.
To me, TPM's beginner group seem better suited for an aggressive street rider, whereas NESBA's beginner group is more catered to a rider wanting to go faster for the first time.
I've seen both NESBA days and TPM days in my respective groups turn into crap-fests, but its more about the individual riders, and not the overall organization. I've heard kubricky chew into a group and not allow passing in certain sections because of dumb decisions in the am, and I've heard froggy rip into a group on pit lane b/c of dumb passing decisions.
And in the coaching/CR regard, I've never had a problem grabbing a CR/coach and asking for a tow, of pointers on a line, as long as he/she wasn't previously commited to another rider. Theres so many people riding out there, it is hard to get individual treatment when a coach/cr has to look out for a totally new/potentially dangerous rider.
Bottom line is, both groups have their ups and downs, but its up to the rider to learn the most from the day. Both groups have awesome riders as coaches/CR's, I'm a member of both because i want to see the most tracks possible, and learn as much as possible from multiple sources.
 

Meat

Member
beevan217;250346 wrote: Spell check please:wow:
Which one? Many members, including me, are frantically trying to use their thumbs to type replies on their phones. I honestly don't have a problem with misspelled words on the forum.

I think this is an excellent thread, even if excitement gets in the way of proper spelling.
 
I started riding with NESBA back in 2007. Been in B group for quite awhile now LOL! I only do a handful of track days a year but as time has gone on I have often questioned NESBA’s philosophy with regards to passing in B group. This past year I decided, for various reasons, to branch out and try a few other orgs. The main reason is the bike I ride. For those who don’t know what a Yamaha TZ125 is its two great strengths are its braking and its corner speed. It does both so much better than my measly skill set allows. If you ever get to watch a truly fast rider on one of these machines going through turns its hair raising!

Anyway, after two days with other orgs I now fully understand beating people on the brakes and coming in way hotter into turns than a slower rider. Put simply passing on the outside in turns is a whole new set of skills that requires a consistent riding style with a disciplined mind to pull it off correctly. I not only had a few try and make passes on me they could not or should not, one rider in particular got pissed that (I can only guess) that small bike passed him he made a shit pass on me and ran wide. I thought maybe it was a fluke. I set him up and pass him back. He comes back by on the straight and damn near crashed going into turn one at T-bolt for carrying more speed than he was comfortable. SO I pass him again LOL! When he came back by me this rider (on a straight again) his body language showed that he was so pissed that I just let him go. I forgot to mention that the rider at first was trying to pass me back in turns and was damn near disastrous for him. I gave the shortened version, but it made me wonder if this happened with other orgs how would they handle it? Also, that rider wasn’t the only one who acted that way. Imagine a faster rider trying to pass both me and that other rider and he is all over the place. That 3rd rider could get seriously tangled up.

He wasn’t the only one. Yours truly, Bubba Zanetti passed a rider going into turn one on the INSIDE! To say the rider was pissed was an understatement. Yes it was a clean pass, yes I rocketed by and was gone, but when I pitted in after the session this rider was in my face before I got off the bike and was screaming at me. He wasn’t expecting someone to come on the inside. Ask vinny337, he witnessed this guy going off. What happened? I was closing on him coming into turn one and for whatever reason he slows more than I expected and doesn’t make the apex. The rider is in the middle of turn one. I was coming in to make the pass and wasn’t expecting the rider to be on that part of the track. So I went on the inside to make the pass safe and clean. I broke the rules and startled the guy. That’s when NESBA’s passing rules started to make sense. Consistency in the turns matters more than can be described. Those two days guess were all my close calls were? Yup, passing on the outside in turns. Either I misjudged something small or the rider went wide when trying to over take.

Will I still ride with other orgs? Sure thing! But NESBAs passing rules, if adhered to will make you faster. When you know you cant pass in the turns you focus on entry speed and braking. You get those down then you will really be quick in the turns.

BZ
 

JRA

New Member
Will I still ride with other orgs? Sure thing! But NESBAs passing rules, if adhered to will make you faster. When you know you cant pass in the turns you focus on entry speed and braking. You get those down then you will really be quick in the turns.
Very good observation. So the passing rules actually do two things...From a safety standpoint they remove most of the unknowns and uncertainties of of the skill of the other riders around you, and second they force you to develop a certain skill set that will allow you to work through traffic.

Developing those skills is what will make you fast. I think it's pretty well understood that anybody who is qualified to give an opinion on what organization has the fastest riders will say hands down it's NESBA. The reasons for are being touched on in this thread.

If you ask a CR what qualities they are looking for in a rider before bumping them they will be in order of importance:

1. Willingness of a rider to follow the rules.
2. That rider's on track judgement and their ability to work traffic within the rules.
3. Technique
4.Pace

If you can work your way around the traffic easily while doing it within the rules you are well on your way to becoming a very fast rider. If you aren't yet doing that then that's what you should be focusing on. As described by Bubba Zanetti anybody can go fast in a straight line and hold you up in the turn. Learning how to put those people behind you with ease will result in you being one of the "fast guys".
 

jcrich

Member
Good thread,

this just cracks me up....

In NESBA the CR's are the wise old(er) men of the paddock, their racing days are past but still fast as hell
motorbike-old-man-584-1278695645.jpg



:D
 

matt2212

Member
As everyone has said this is a good thread. as a 30 something rider I like the rules for safety and for the challenge. As an I group rider In the southeast I can tell you I've seen my share of crazy passes, and have made a few mistakes... I very much understand the intent of the rules and appreciate what they do.

Someone said that the NESBA Cr where not like coaches, and I would like to disagree with that. sometimes they are busy enforcing rules and keeping traffic flowing, but I'm sure they are paying attention to what people are doing right and wrong. sometimes a coach lets you make a mistake so that you understand what was wrong when they correct you.
I made a mistake at RA last month, liter bike passed me on the back straight, I held WOT way longer and came into 10a a bit hot on the brakes, It just so happens Darren was following me. he didn't run me down and yell at me, he continued to follow me and at the end of the session when I went to him for feedback he let me know what i did wrong, (he said it was close, OK because I was in control, hit my apex, etc but don't do it again) and we discussed what to do next time. I closed my line and pinched myself off. and I learned... was I afraid of getting yelled at, YEP... I kept a humble attitude said I was wrong and asked how to fix it... He got back to coaching.

Also I will say the I have gotten more coaching out of NESBA Cr's than I got out of expensive schools. The schools I took you got 1 or 2 laps of help or even just a thumbs up as the instructor flew by. Many times I have had NESBA Cr's work with me for whole sessions only to have another Cr do the same the next time out. I think they see who is struggling and who is standing out, but also see the guys who "need more seat time" and are doing everything well, just need to get used to the______ (fill in blank) before they can "get" the next level
At vir S last year a cr who I never even saw before (i think a ny guy down on vacation maybe Lenny) found me in the pits because he saw something wrong with my foot position, that affected my body position. The 10 minutes he took on a hot day, still in his leathers made a bigger difference in my riding than California super bike school.

I have been track days when I got no "Help" and in hindsight I'm sure i needed more seat time, I was not ready to understand what they had to show me next, my mind needed time to understand what I was doing.

When I first started doing track days someone told me that "not all track days are created equal" So I rolled to Jennings in February for a JGP track day in there I group, pass anywhere, no Cr's, SH*T show, dangerous, kids with no brain and less skill, think they are doing something and it was DANGEROUS 30% crashed out, some taking others with them... I'll take rules and structure please

I have nothing bad to say about TPM and have never ridden with them, but I don't believe any other org would give me more instruction or coaching than I received from NESBA
 

rob92

Control Rider
N2
Smithereens;250436 wrote: I don't remember giving permission to have a picture of me posted in this thread........
Emphasis on the phrase "don't remember..." :D
 

Jiggy

Control Rider
HunterHughes;250323 wrote: In NESBA the CR's are the wise old(er) men of the paddock, their racing days are past but still fast as hell

Oh jesus, here we go. Please spare me the 'dad-playing-basketball-with-his-kid-in-the-driveway' comparison.
 
Jiggy;250452 wrote: Oh jesus, here we go. Please spare me the 'dad-playing-basketball-with-his-kid-in-the-driveway' comparison.
I'm sorry, are you offended because I said Nesba CR's are older? Next time I will just say something negative instead :$
 
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