Shifting Question

[RADAR Magnet]

With the 2013 schedule mostly set I'm finding myself looking forward to another season of track days. As this year will be my third, I'm still relatively new and have much to learn. One thing that I struggled with last year was shifting while leaned over. I'm hoping the collective wisdom of the board can help me find a solution and keep progressing.

It didn't seem to matter if I wanted to shift up or down; if I was leaning right it pretty much wasn't happening until I could straighten up somewhat and move back to the center of the seat. Examples of turns where this happened include T2 and T9 at Summit as well as coming into the decreasing radius down at Barber (I think that's T14). It likely happened elsewhere too but those turns stand out in my mind.

I'm wondering if the solution is new rear sets or if going to a GP shift would solve the problem; I'm not keen on the latter but would consider it if that was really the solution. Or maybe there's another solution.

I'm riding a fairly stock '05 600RR; stock rear sets, no quick shifter, slipper clutch or other goodies. I did drop a tooth on the front sprocket last year and like the extra grunt in the lower gears but obviously I need to improve my ability to move up or down through them in order to fully realize the benefit. Lastly, I'm about 5' 8" and not expecting to get any taller.

Anyway, that's my issue. All thoughts are welcomed and appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

[D-Zum]

GP shift would definitely help with shifting up in my opinion and from experience. You don't have to search for the lever and get your foot under it with GP. You just push down and it's there, you hit it, and you go into the next higher gear. Ergonomically, it also makes more sense. The calf muscles are much larger than the shin's muscles and thus the push movement of your foot yields a much firmer, more positive shift response/experience.


But, there's NOTHING like a quickshifter.

 

[1up5down]

What Darrin shared is good advice for sure.

However, based upon your description, you may have ask yourself what or why is it that you would not shift until the bike was straighten up somewhat and you move back to center of the seat?

Was it because your foot could not reach the shifter? If so, why was/is foot not in position to make a shift wile leaned over?
Was it because you were not comfortable with shifting while leaned over?

There a other possibilities as to why, ultimately you have to figure out what's preventing you from making the shift and then make the right change/adjustment to allow such to happen.

-Adjustable rearsets offer you the ability to make several ergo changes that could enhance your ability to reach/feel the foot controls while leaned over
-In my experience GP shift makes it very easy to up shift while leaned over versus standard shift (your results may differ)
-Ensuring your riding position is in proper alignment can also enhance your ability to make shifts while leaned over

Hope this helps you and good luck with your 2013 riding season!

 

[D-Zum]

1up5down;263328 wrote: What Darrin shared is good advice for sure.

However, based upon your description, you may have ask yourself what or why is it that you would not shift until the bike was straighten up somewhat and you move back to center of the seat?

Was it because your foot could not reach the shifter? If so, why was/is foot not in position to make a shift wile leaned over?
Was it because you were not comfortable with shifting while leaned over?

There a other possibilities as to why, ultimately you have to figure out what's preventing you from making the shift and then make the right change/adjustment to allow such to happen.

-Adjustable rearsets offer you the ability to make several ergo changes that could enhance your ability to reach/feel the foot controls while leaned over
-In my experience GP shift makes it very easy to up shift while leaned over versus standard shift (your results may differ)
-Ensuring your riding position is in proper alignment can also enhance your ability to make shifts while leaned over

Hope this helps you and good luck with your 2013 riding season!

:agree:And who says Steelers and Ravens fans can't get along?

 

[vinny337]

:agree:You may have to consider changing to GP shift and maybe invest in a quick shifter as well, if you intend to shift while leaned over.

 

[TonyR]

Two and nine at Summit are both right hand turns*. I would think that you're upshifting since both turns lead onto short straights. Anyway, you might want to spend some time adjusting your controls (like 1up suggested). I can really see the advantages of using GP shift. I've never been able to get used to it. But it seems like the way to go, especially in a few left hand corners where space between the lever and ground is at a premium.

* Two's kinda really the exit of one, you might mean three, which is the first left on a lap of Summit, but turn two on a motorcycle isn't really there. I'm not trying to be a dick, just thought I'd point it out in case you're wondering why I'd be talking about a left hand turn going right and it seems easy to confuse.

 

[j_fuggin_t]

Rearsets or experiment more with gearing the bike so you don't have to shift mid corner and I agree 100% with the quick shifter

 

[jcurtis]

GP shift, QS and rearsets are great additions but I have a feeling that your body position is the culprit. If you feel like you are unable to move or adjust your outside foot to shift, your body position needs to be adjusted. Next time you are at the track grab one of the CR's and tell them the problem. This is an easy thing to correct. Your avatar is a bit small but it looks like you are crowding the tank and a bit twisted. I had a 03 CBR and had no problem shifting while leaned over.

 

[tdelegram]

Coming off of standard shift to GP shift with QS made everything much easier. Just tap down to grab next higher gear. It takes one session to get used to the new pattern, but after that it's a huge advantage in my book.

 

[noobinacan]

I'm running one down in the front and +2 in the rear on mine.
I take 3rd from T11 to T15 at barber....I use to take 4th and catch a downshift going into T14, but 3rd works better for me.

I'd say stick with what you have, buy rearsets for sure.
cause if you have stock rearsets on that bike, you're gonna drag your toes everywhere at Barber

i run vortex all the way back and up one notch.

I don't think GP shift will fix your issues. cause T14 with GP shift is a little bit more technique and work to come back a gear.

try one change at a time...NOT all.

 

[JRA]

GP shift isn't a magic fix. Most racers prefer it for a variety of reasons, but not all. I'm guessing that your problem isn't shift pattern though but more likely technique and body position. There is nothing wrong with trying GP shift to see if you like it better though. Bottom line is anything that makes you more comfortable riding the bike is a good thing.

 

[ajcjr]

RADAR Magnet;263322 wrote: With the 2013 schedule mostly set I'm finding myself looking forward to another season of track days. As this year will be my third, I'm still relatively new and have much to learn. One thing that I struggled with last year was shifting while leaned over. I'm hoping the collective wisdom of the board can help me find a solution and keep progressing.

It didn't seem to matter if I wanted to shift up or down; if I was leaning right it pretty much wasn't happening until I could straighten up somewhat and move back to the center of the seat. Examples of turns where this happened include T2 and T9 at Summit as well as coming into the decreasing radius down at Barber (I think that's T14). It likely happened elsewhere too but those turns stand out in my mind.

I'm wondering if the solution is new rear sets or if going to a GP shift would solve the problem; I'm not keen on the latter but would consider it if that was really the solution. Or maybe there's another solution.

I'm riding a fairly stock '05 600RR; stock rear sets, no quick shifter, slipper clutch or other goodies. I did drop a tooth on the front sprocket last year and like the extra grunt in the lower gears but obviously I need to improve my ability to move up or down through them in order to fully realize the benefit. Lastly, I'm about 5' 8" and not expecting to get any taller.

Anyway, that's my issue. All thoughts are welcomed and appreciated. Thanks in advance!

im a newbie so im still learning about some of the items and options for the track, but thought you may enjoy this article as well.
http://www.sportrider.com/tips/146_0809_reverse_shift_pattern/viewall.html

 

[RADAR Magnet]

Thanks guys, lots of good food for thought. I'm kinda rooting for poor body position since that doesn't cost anything to fix! Rear sets and other toys are fun, and I may look to add here or there, but I'll definitely grab a CR next time out and see if I can get some pointers on my positioning. Is it April yet???

 

[VState60]

jcurtis;263360 wrote: GP shift, QS and rearsets are great additions but I have a feeling that your body position is the culprit. If you feel like you are unable to move or adjust your outside foot to shift, your body position needs to be adjusted. Next time you are at the track grab one of the CR's and tell them the problem. This is an easy thing to correct. Your avatar is a bit small but it looks like you are crowding the tank and a bit twisted. I had a 03 CBR and had no problem shifting while leaned over.

It took 8 posts before someone pointed out the real problem. I agree whole-heartedly with the above post minus the GP and QS part. If you still have so much work to do on your BP that you cannot upshift without having your bum in the middle of the seat, fancy go-fast parts are not the answer. I run a QS and GP shift but before I had these two options at my disposal I didn't have a problem getting my foot under the shift lever. I imagine you're doing something with your body position that's putting you out of position to make the transition. Think of it just like the tail end of a straight and coming into a hard braking zone, just before a corner: The first thing you do is sit up, slide that ass over to whatever side that the upcoming turn is on while simultaneously getting your hands and feet where they need to be. "Set up" sooner for the upshift/corner exit and you will be fine.
Someone else mentioned gearing and that could possibly be the culprit. Rather than chasing the perfect gearing set up you could just run a gear higher so you're not forced to upshift until you've picked the bike up and are pinning it.
I love my GP shift but Mat Mladin sure did just fine running standard, didn't he?

 

[rk97]

j_fuggin_t;263358 wrote: Rearsets or experiment more with gearing the bike so you don't have to shift mid corner and I agree 100% with the quick shifter

on a 600, stock gearing might be necessary for Summit's front straight.

I generally agree 100% with the philosophy here (change gearing to move shift points around the turns), but I'd wait until you're pretty quick (fast "I" pace, if not solidly in "A") to start messing with things.

Where the OP is needing an up-shift now, he might improve his entry and mid-corner speed to the point that he's already in the gear he currently needs to shift into. I know there were some turns I took in 2nd gear when I was in "B" group that I would be banging off the rev limiter in 2nd now... There are also places that I grab an 'extra' down-shift for better drive out, where that down-shift used to scare me by unsettling the bike.

 

[Meat]

I very much like GP shift but it will make downshifting in T14 at Barber more difficult. GP shift makes up shifting while leaned over easier.

I don't see new adjustable rear sets helping your shifting problems that much, unless you need more room for your boot or that is the only way your bike can go to GP shift.

GP shift or not, you will always run into problems, with certain turns, shifting exactly when you want to. In some turns you have to evaluate if you are able to use the power in second gear or could you go into the turn in 3rd and still pull as hard as you want.

 

[ritelite77]

1st thing...before even takin a bike out on track, the ergos of bike need adjusted to suit you. Adjust both levers and both foot pedals to your liking. Then take er out, see how it feels & adjust accordingly. Be patient cuz it can be a pain to get em just right. Then as said by many others, focus on proper body position. Once that is sorted, now focus on proper set up times for entering each & every corner. I'll bet after all that & work with a cr you'll be hitting them shifts like a pro. Technique & having the bike setup (for you) is everything when it comes to fast track riding, not the trick kit ya got on ur bike. QS & GP shift are not a cure all. Kevin Schwantz & Mat mladin (two of the best racers I've had the pleasure to see in action) use standard shift. QS is an awesome peice of kit, but unless your a racer searchin for precious lap times, its just a perk. I'm 5'6" & 120lbs in full gear. so as you can imagine it was hell at first. between the long reach to the bars/pegs & suspension for a rider thats 150-180lbs, i had my hands full. But i made it into I group on a bone stock 750 with only ergo setup & proper technique training from the schwantz school & the great cr's of nesba ( and im by no means "Johnny Racer" fast). Good luck! hope this helps.

 

[jimgl3]

i'll bet you are doing what i used to do: you are entering the turn with your toe on the peg. it's part of setting up for the turn... just like getting off the bike for the turn, get your heel on the peg and maybe even go ahead and get your toe under the lever before you turn in. get behind a CR and watch them. you may have a hard time noticing when they shift because they are so smooth. and if you ask me, it's because they set up for the turn, not because they have gp or qs