Skill Plateaus

Louber

New Member
Thanks again everyone for the feedback on here. Saturday at PIRC was a blast!

Went into the day with 2 missions...

This:
I have attached an image of the approximate location where the end of the rearset should be digging into your sole.

And this:
Remind yourself to push back in between turns.

What a revelation. By session 3 the confidence and smoothness of cornering felt hugely improved. It felt like i could run a similar pace as before with much less work and drama. The whole toe-point thing makes a ton of sense now. Kris' lunch novice meeting helped reinforce these two points.

Unrelated: Anybody have word on the rider that was heli'd out Saturday? Scary stuff.

Cheers!
 

Flyboy08

New Member
Some more info on hydration....Start the night before. You should need to have to pee between every session (twice for us old guys:)). Take it easy on the diuretics like coffee.
I'm going to wear a new one piece this weekend ( two piece in the past)...peeing is going to be a challenge to say the least!

Great thread brewing here!
 

tdelegram

Control Rider
My understanding is he had a recent surgury with plates that was reinjured and needed immediate surgery but not life threatening.
 

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
I'm going to wear a new one piece this weekend ( two piece in the past)...peeing is going to be a challenge to say the least!

Great thread brewing here!
Still easier for you guys, LMAO! Wear long pants and a long sleeved VnM, Underarmor, or similar compression base layer. Makes taking the leathers on and off a breeze! Compression being key, loose stuff won't work as well.
 

Hix25

New Member
I found this video awhile back. It's Troy Corser at a BMW sponsored track day at Brno. He is talking to a group of novice riders about body position. The video is about 20 minutes long and I would love to hear some opinions on this. Especially his foot position.

 

adotjdot

Control Rider
ATP/3C
I found this video awhile back. It's Troy Corser at a BMW sponsored track day at Brno. He is talking to a group of novice riders about body position. The video is about 20 minutes long and I would love to hear some opinions on this. Especially his foot position.

Hey Hix25, thanks for the post and inquiry! It's always interesting to hear the techniques of former champions and what they teach. Troy was obviously a very fast rider and was able to win championships and is no doubt still fast today. At YCRS we focus on what the "current" best riders in the world are doing. Rossi, Lorenzo, Dovi, etc. So some of what Troy is talking about aligns with what these guys are doing...but some of it doesn't. These guys have had to take the techniques that Corser was competitive with and adjust them to win or just become more competitive. Look at Rossi, he had to totally rethink his approach to riding when Marquez came on the scene just to become competitive again.

So what is different...first, foot position. Most of what he is saying about foot position falls in line with what we are currently seeing in MotoGP. Outside foot on the heel for easier shifting and braking. Inside foot on ball of foot and hip open. Keep in mind though when he talks about his inside foot placement, the WSBK and GP guys need to tuck it in more for clearance than anything. The further we can get that weight transferred to the end of the peg the easier it will be to support that load away from the bike's center of gravity. Something to add, he talks about being more flat footed or using the heel to transition weight. The problem with that is agility. Think of any world class athlete (regardless of the sport) and where they support their weight. On the balls of their foot! This enables them to transition weight better, and smoother, from side to side. Yes, we are engaging our lower leg muscles like he said which are smaller muscle groups, but we are not using JUST those muscles. We are engaging ALL of the muscle groups in our legs. Again, remember that we want to be efficient with our movements (like he said) but not at the cost of agility. Be smooth and deliberate with where you put your feet so that you minimize movements, but get them planted and ready to transfer weight early in the process.

Corner entry...he talks about not being back off the tank. This is very opposite of what we discuss at YCRS. Again, look at what current GP riders are doing. They are taking tremendous loads into their hands and arms on braking. They are back off the tank as much as possible to open up the inside of the bike to get their weight down. Look at any pics of Corser riding, he is typically twisted up on the tank with his head and shoulders high. This happens when you are too close to the tank. With that weight high like that, your center of gravity is high, so you need to carry more lean angle at a given speed to get through the corner. Also, yes, you are going to take some of the brake forces with your outside leg, but the majority will always be in your palms.

He talks about input into the handlebars. Bottom line here is the more we can lock our lower bodies and engage our core, the easier it will be to take weight off the bars.

So while some of what he covers is certainly valid, the current GP riders have found better ways to get around the track being faster, and more importantly safer. Again, by no means do I want to show any disrespect towards a guy who has won championships and is extremely fast. He obviously spent a lot of time and effort figuring out how to beat his competition. It's just that the current champions are doing things differently now and that's where we focus.

Thanks!
 

Motofun352

Control Rider
My take on body position,,,try to assume the correct (for you) body position all the time. The object is to make it muscle memory so you don't have to think too much about it. I want to feel uncomfortable if I'm in a bad BP. Frees up more brain cells (I already have too few left :)) for other issues like hitting marks, smooth throttle and trying to feel what the bike is trying to tell me. Just my thoughts on the subject.

PS AAA+++ on foot position being the first priority.
 

wmhjr

Grandpa
Control Rider
AJ said it well. If you have a chance, take a look at the movie "Hitting the Apex". It explicitly calls out and shows how Rossi had to completely change his riding style in order to be competitive. The way he rode when he won his early Championships would not allow him to be fast enough to compete once the new riders came on the scene. They even superimpose the "old" and "new" Rossi to show the difference. Can you ride fast with bad body position? Yup. But you're also taking on risk - and you're limited in how much faster you can go.

Lean angle is your enemy - it's a necessary evil. But only in so much as you use the minimum amount of lean angle on the bike to execute a turn at a given speed. The more lean angle, the less the contact patch, and the smaller the circumference of the tire - plus the tire is not "aligned", so it's not actually turning in exactly the direction of travel - meaning you're giving up points of traction as you scrub the outer circumference of the tire. Unless you're REALLY naturally gifted and have a ton of experience, none of us have the same "feel" of that tire as to the MotoGP guys, the WSB guys, or the front MA guys. So, why make it even harder on us when we don't have that skill. Keep as much lean angle in reserve as possible - when you run out of lean angle reserve, you have reached the limit of how fast you can go through a corner. That's not a good thing.

Riders - including the Pros - continually search for ways to improve technique to allow for better performance. I wish I could ride as fast as Corser. I can't. But he can't ride as fast as the newer guys - and part of the reason is that they've continued to learn, adapt and develop technique.
 

Hix25

New Member
Thank you AJ for your detailed breakdown of the video, and others for their input. When I first saw this it caught my attention because Troy talks about the possibility of your foot slipping off when trying to weight the end of the inside peg. A couple years ago when I started riding track, I had an issue where my feet were always wanting to slip of the pegs(riding a bone stock R6 with factory rearsets). I had also noticed that quite a few of the current GP riders use the foot position Troy talks about. But AJ pointed out something I completely overlooked, which is the fact that those guys carry such extreme lean angles that they have to tuck their feet like that for clearance.
 

Lenny ZX9R

Control Rider
Hey Hix25, thanks for the post and inquiry! It's always interesting to hear the techniques of former champions and what they teach. Troy was obviously a very fast rider and was able to win championships and is no doubt still fast today. At YCRS we focus on what the "current" best riders in the world are doing. Rossi, Lorenzo, Dovi, etc. So some of what Troy is talking about aligns with what these guys are doing...but some of it doesn't. These guys have had to take the techniques that Corser was competitive with and adjust them to win or just become more competitive. Look at Rossi, he had to totally rethink his approach to riding when Marquez came on the scene just to become competitive again.

So what is different...first, foot position. Most of what he is saying about foot position falls in line with what we are currently seeing in MotoGP. Outside foot on the heel for easier shifting and braking. Inside foot on ball of foot and hip open. Keep in mind though when he talks about his inside foot placement, the WSBK and GP guys need to tuck it in more for clearance than anything. The further we can get that weight transferred to the end of the peg the easier it will be to support that load away from the bike's center of gravity. Something to add, he talks about being more flat footed or using the heel to transition weight. The problem with that is agility. Think of any world class athlete (regardless of the sport) and where they support their weight. On the balls of their foot! This enables them to transition weight better, and smoother, from side to side. Yes, we are engaging our lower leg muscles like he said which are smaller muscle groups, but we are not using JUST those muscles. We are engaging ALL of the muscle groups in our legs. Again, remember that we want to be efficient with our movements (like he said) but not at the cost of agility. Be smooth and deliberate with where you put your feet so that you minimize movements, but get them planted and ready to transfer weight early in the process.

Corner entry...he talks about not being back off the tank. This is very opposite of what we discuss at YCRS. Again, look at what current GP riders are doing. They are taking tremendous loads into their hands and arms on braking. They are back off the tank as much as possible to open up the inside of the bike to get their weight down. Look at any pics of Corser riding, he is typically twisted up on the tank with his head and shoulders high. This happens when you are too close to the tank. With that weight high like that, your center of gravity is high, so you need to carry more lean angle at a given speed to get through the corner. Also, yes, you are going to take some of the brake forces with your outside leg, but the majority will always be in your palms.

He talks about input into the handlebars. Bottom line here is the more we can lock our lower bodies and engage our core, the easier it will be to take weight off the bars.

So while some of what he covers is certainly valid, the current GP riders have found better ways to get around the track being faster, and more importantly safer. Again, by no means do I want to show any disrespect towards a guy who has won championships and is extremely fast. He obviously spent a lot of time and effort figuring out how to beat his competition. It's just that the current champions are doing things differently now and that's where we focus.

Thanks!

I 100% agree AJ! I couldn't have said it better myself! :)
 
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