So I did my first track day...in a car!

Streetfighter122

Streetfighter122

Member
A few of you know that I have been talking about doing this. Well, this past Saturday I did a track day (HPDE) with my 2014 Mustang GT with the track package at VIR full course.

Anyone else try it with a car? Big difference between a car and a motorcycle as most would expect. The biggest is how lazy you feel sitting in a seat the whole time. Your body is so much more active when negotiating turns on the bike. And a car leans the wrong way in a turn.

It is strange having the instructor (Like a CR) sitting beside you commenting on your driving the entire time. Wonder what it would be like having a CR in your ear via a Bluetooth device, following you around the track commenting on every corner? Something to think about. The technology exist.

For those wondering, I have to say the thrill is much higher tracking a bike than a car. Not that it wasn't fun, it totally was, just calmer than a bike. The speeds were much lower in the car, too.

One more thing, there are comments made by the car guys that raise a red flag to the instructors, just as we have at our track days that raise a red flag to the CR's. You know how a guy will say "the CR's are slowing me down." Or "I'm too fast for B group and they are in my way." I got to witness a guy say "the traction control is slowing me down". The instructors do not let beginners shut off the traction control. Anyway, the guy does turn off his traction control. Anyone want to guess what happened? Yup, spins out big time coming out of oak tree turn.

So there it is. Just thought I'd share with the group.
 
Greg ZX6R

Greg ZX6R

Member
Brian, I knew Dan had some issues with his car after one session, which begs the question: How many people, in your estimate, drove their vehicle to the track? You see it every once in a while with the bikes, but I would guess it's a greater number with the cars.
 
Slitherin

Slitherin

Control Rider
Director
Jason Crisamore was out there in his Red Porsche too. I told him he had 2 wheels too many.
 
wmhjr

wmhjr

Grandpa
Control Rider
I typically spend a good deal of time on the track with my car - have for years. I've been on the same track (not at the same time :) ) with both my car, and on a bike. There are lots of similarities, and lots of differences.

There are also lots of differences in the experience you'll get in a car. I can tell you that you won't feel lazy sitting in the right seat of my car on the track. Without racing seats and the 6 point harness, you'd be hard pressed to stay in the seat. It's "different" - not easier or harder. On the bike I'm measuring tire pressure between sessions. On the car, I'm measuring tire temps across different parts of each tire in addition to pressures. On the bike you're thinking about rebound and compression changes based on the track. On the car, I'm thinking of that - plus camber and toe adjustments for each track. Even pinion adjustments in rare circumstances. I think the big difference is that our track bikes are so much closer to full race machines than a typical street car is, so it's hard to get the kind of performance out of a street car you can easily get off the showroom floor from a bike.
 
Streetfighter122

Streetfighter122

Member
Greg,
It seemed to me that a lot more people drive their car to these events than people ride their bikes to a bike track day. Dan had an issue with his tire after the first session. Looks like maybe the belts had separated and there was a bulge in the side wall (SlowSteve gets excited at that word). He was unable to find a replacement tire for the rest of the day, and the drive home the next day. He did make it home without an issue.

wmhjr,
When I say I feel lazy in the car, it is compared to riding the bike. Sounds like you have a lot of experience with car track days, as I am very new. I am a slow pace A rider on the bike. At pace on the bike there is a lot of side to side movement. When I finish a track day on the bike, my legs are tired and wobbly. When I finished the track day with the car, I didn't feel like I had a workout as compared to the bike. Don't mistake my comment to mean I was bored, or not active. Just a big difference than with the car and at my level between the two.
 
wmhjr

wmhjr

Grandpa
Control Rider
I agree that if the car is setup properly, you won't be as "physical" as on the bike. Racing seats are by design very "contained" and "restrictive". The whole point is to eliminate to the maximum extent how much your torso can possible move, leaving arms and legs only moving (and your head to some extent). Without those seats and the 6 point sub harness, you simply wouldn't be able to operate the vehicle closer to the extremes. I also agree that on the bike, you get a real workout, as you're effectively a component of the machine. In other words, on the bike, you use your body as a variably on the fly adjustable component of the total "machine". In the car, you want to completely eliminate yourself as a moving object.

I'm relatively new on the track with bikes. I find it far easier to reasonably fast on a bike than in the car. Not meaning fast compared to the experienced A riders and CRs or racers, but fast just generally compared to being on the street. There is also the power/weight ratio thing. Sure, my car has over 600hp and 550 lbs of torque. But it also weighs a LOT more than a bike. 14" 6 piston brakes are awesome but you're still dealing with a crap load more weight and momentum.

IMHO it's not necessary for me to decide which is more fun. Being able to do both is a great problem to have! If anybody really has an opportunity and wants some fun on 4 wheels, I'd encourage you to try and get a ride with somebody having a reasonably fast car that knows what they're doing on a track like RA or VIR. Preferably not a "stock" or real "street" car, but something built to really run on the track. It's a real hoot!
 
mpusch

mpusch

Micah
You made a great example about the differences between the two with your anecdote about the guy turning off his TC. In a car, he spun out. On a bike, he probably high sides himself halfway to the moon. There's still plenty of risk to be had in cars on the track, but in general, the punishment is a lot less severe for exceeding the limits incorrectly.
 
wmhjr

wmhjr

Grandpa
Control Rider
I would very strongly disagree with the punishment being a lot less severe! Most of us have less than $15K in our bikes. Maybe a lot less. I know some have more. I've seen $300k cars get removed from the track with $100k in damages! I could buy and/or build my bike 10 times over for just the price of the drivetrain in the car. And when two cars come together, bad things happen. Honesty, one of the things I like about the N2 scene is that for the most part, so long as you wear appropriate safety gear and ride with your head screwed on, I feel less at risk than when I've got the car I built out on the track. Do the math - it's physics. When I'm in the car moving at 160mph, if I hit something the force of that car with me in it is incredible. If I'm coming off the back straight at Gingerman into a 90 degree right turn with a wall in front of me at over 155, things get really serious really fast. And you sure ain't gonna slow down 3300lbs from 155 like you can slow an R6. How many people go down every weekend at a track day? And how many are back on the track that weekend or the next one?

An air fence is useless for cars, unfortunately! :)

It's different guys. Including the risk. Maybe if you're just comparing bone stock street cars to bone stock bikes, the risk is closer to what you're saying. But trying to compare the two and come up with which is "riskier" or "harder" is impossible. The idea of getting around the track is similar, and even some of the lines "may" be very similar. But there is so friggin much that is different.
 
Streetfighter122

Streetfighter122

Member
It's great to have different views. I have to agree with mpusch, while the price of property damage may cost more with the car, I actually feel I am personally more at risk on the bike than the car. Again, that is just me, your results may differ, as they say. Luckily I don't have any car wrecks to compare to my 2 on track bike wrecks.

And yes, both are loads of fun. I wouldn't want to try and talk someone into picking just one. And thanks to my bike track days and knowing how to pick the line around a track, I do believed that helped me to get moved up a group after just one day out. The bump as we call it :)
 
Streetfighter122

Streetfighter122

Member
John,
I did see 2 red Porsche 911's out there, but I don't know the names of the drivers. Saw a lot of Porsche's, BMW's, Miata's, and Corvettes. At tech, I felt like I was in a Corvette parade. Had me thinking I was in the wrong line at first, ha ha.
 
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