Special Discounts for Outsiders

[geekmug]

I attended Putnam Park this past weekend and some attention was drawn to there being a number of "Ohio Riders" in the B group meeting. I was bored today and thought I'd pop over to their forum and give a shout-out to those folks. And so, I hunted down their thread about the event.

It seems that for this event, a discount was offered ($125/day) including the waiving of the member/non-member fee. And as a member, who plans to attend any and all NESBA events within a reasonable distance (presuming good health and sound bike), this makes me a bit sour. I spent a majority of Sunday practicing passing as it seemed to be a packed day -- my g/f counted ~35 bikes in the B group Sunday. Furthermore, the last time there was a "special deal" offered (the BHF opener), it was offered to everyone and I received a credit that covered the difference (ironically, I have an Ohio Riders account).

I understand that deals like this are offered to expose riders to the NESBA experience, but I think this is the first time I have personally been aware of that exposure being to the detriment of the membership. I don't know if there have been other discounts like this before (I would effectively call this my first year with NESBA), but I don't like that I am now paranoid about it. I'm not saying that I don't think the normal rate ($155/day) is a fair sum to pay (it is!), but I don't know that I agree with how this discount was offered and the ultimate result (packing B group to the brim with a lot of inexperienced riders who did not pay full price to be there). I'm not sure how it served anyone's best interests.

*puts on his tin-foil hat and flame retardant pants*

 

[Bucky Badger]

geekmug;134936 wrote: I understand that deals like this are offered to expose riders to the NESBA experience

You hit the nail on the head with this statement.

Much like the intro program works to provide riders that have not ridden the track exposure to this sport, the Ohio Riders forum special provided riders that have not had the opportunity to ride with NESBA the opportunity and motivation to do so.

Many people who ride primarily with other organizations are hesitant to step out of their comfort zones since they have built up that comfort with an organizations staff and procedures. Having them join us for a day with a large group of their forums members provides the opportunity for them to experience what NESBA has to offer. Our experience shows us that a good number of them become NESBA members and ride with us again and again.

The Ohio Riders forum special also required a minimum amount of people to attend and the organizer secured the required commitments before a post was made. Over two days, the forum brought over 20 people to our Putnam event, many of them experienced track riders. I believe there were 2 or 3 members from Ohio Riders that had never ridden the track there on Sunday...the rest had some track experience.

Going forward, we will continue to actively recruit "outsiders" to NESBA days so that we can remain a viable organization for many years. All of the Ohio Riders that I talked to had a great time and felt that NESBA ran a great trackday...that is why I prefer to call them "future NESBA members".

 

[ronhix]

Keep working on those skills Scott and you will be in Intermediate before you know it, then all those "newbies" won't be in your way. The Putnam SED day may be the ticket to help you to make the jump.

Your doing a great job with the marketing Brian, keep up the good work.

 

[rk97]

Scott - I hear where you're coming from. I'm on Ohio-Riders as well, and was already registered to ride (albeit at another track) with NESBA (at full price) before the Putnam deal was offered to OR members.

I wouldn't consider myself a terribly religious person, but I do think there's some wisdom to be found in religious texts (of many denominations). The situation at hand reminded me of this:

Matt 20:1-16 "the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who was the master of a household, who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. When he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. He went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace. To them he said, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went their way. Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. About the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle. He said to them, ‘Why do you stand here all day idle?’ "They said to him, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ "He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and you will receive whatever is right.’ When evening had come, the lord of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning from the last to the first.’ "When those who were hired at about the eleventh hour came, they each received a denarius. When the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise each received a denarius. When they received it, they murmured against the master of the household, saying, ‘These last have spent one hour, and you have made them equal to us, who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat!’ "But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Didn’t you agree with me for a denarius? Take that which is yours, and go your way. It is my desire to give to this last just as much as to you. Isn’t it lawful for me to do what I want to with what I own? Or is your eye evil, because I am good?’"

Take from that what you will.

(now somebody make my mom's day by calling and telling her I was paying attention in church ...at least some of the time.)

 

[ronhix]

rk97;135071 wrote: Scott - I hear where you're coming from. I'm on Ohio-Riders as well, and was already registered to ride (albeit at another track) with NESBA (at full price) before the Putnam deal was offered to OR members.

I wouldn't consider myself a terribly religious person, but I do think there's some wisdom to be found in religious texts (of many denominations). The situation at hand reminded me of this:

Matt 20:1-16 "the Kingdom of Heaven is like a man who was the master of a household, who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. When he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. He went out about the third hour, and saw others standing idle in the marketplace. To them he said, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went their way. Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. About the eleventh hour he went out, and found others standing idle. He said to them, ‘Why do you stand here all day idle?’ "They said to him, ‘Because no one has hired us.’ "He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and you will receive whatever is right.’ When evening had come, the lord of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning from the last to the first.’ "When those who were hired at about the eleventh hour came, they each received a denarius. When the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise each received a denarius. When they received it, they murmured against the master of the household, saying, ‘These last have spent one hour, and you have made them equal to us, who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat!’ "But he answered one of them, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Didn’t you agree with me for a denarius? Take that which is yours, and go your way. It is my desire to give to this last just as much as to you. Isn’t it lawful for me to do what I want to with what I own? Or is your eye evil, because I am good?’"

Take from that what you will.

(now somebody make my mom's day by calling and telling her I was paying attention in church ...at least some of the time.)

:congrats:

 

[Joe Vital]

how long would that vineyard owner be able to sustain his business by doing that more than once. wouldn't all of the workers then expect to come at the 11th hour from then on and still expect to get a full days wage? how much work would the owner get from those in that 11th hour?
do you really think any of the laborers that worked a full day wopuld return to that owner to work a full day?

short sighted vinyard owner if you ask me.

 

[ronhix]

Joe Vital;135086 wrote: short sighted vinyard owner if you ask me.

I don't think it is a manual on how to run a business Joe.

It seems to be a simple story about someone's desire to be generous and other people hating on him because of it. At least that is the way it seems to me.

 

[Joe Vital]

not to have this degenerate into a bible theology class, but i think it is a parable about how as long as you come to god (the vineyard) it does not matter when you come. you will get paid the same. (nothing is simple in the bible...)

as for running a business, i think if the meaning is taken literally, the vineyard owner would have to be held accountable to whatever other interests there were held in the vineyard.
it is one thing to be generous with your own property but an entirely different thing to be generous with others.
to bring it back to the topic at hand, we dues paying members pay those dues because we get specific perks for those dues. a concern would be if those perks were available to those riders that hadn't paid the dues or the day use premium.
ron/brian i am not at all averse expanding the membership. to the contrary i am constantly telling anyone that will listen to come and ride with us. we --the club-- offer the best place to gain access to the track. we have free sessions, we have free demo rides on brand new bikes. do we really need to dilute our product/brand by discounting the days to non-members?

 

[rk97]

interesting how people are taking different things from the parable.

My take was, "if you get what you were promised, you can't really complain. The fact that someone else got MORE than they were promised doesn't hurt you; it only rewards them."

The lesson (for me) was in being the worker who was hired early in the day, not being the vineyard owner.

 

[Joe Vital]

see nothing is simple in the bible...thank you for your perspective rk97.

 

[stow]

Parables are always slightly confusing to me but I believe Joe has the correct interpretation. God's gift is equal to all who come to him and accept Jesus. The gift is the same whether you are Billy Graham and have served God your entire life or you are the death row inmate that turns to God in your final hour. No amount of deeds will raise your stature in God's eyes. Of course I also believe if you have accepted Jesus then you will desire to do the good deeds and serve God.

Shane

 

[ronhix]

stow;135114 wrote: Parables are always slightly confusing to me but I believe Joe has the correct interpretation. God's gift is equal to all who come to him and accept Jesus. The gift is the same whether you are Billy Graham and have served God your entire life or you are the death row inmate that turns to God in your final hour. No amount of deeds will raise your stature in God's eyes. Of course I also believe if you have accepted Jesus then you will desire to do the good deeds and serve God.

Shane

Yeah, I agree with that one too.

(THE BELOW OUTLINES MY PERSONAL OPINION AND IN NO WAY REPRESENTS THE "OFFICIAL" OPINION OF NESBA. I DO NOT PRESUME TO SPEAK ON BEHALF OF NESBA, BUT RATHER ONLY SHARE MY PERSONAL OPINION)

The bottom line Joe and Scott, in my opinion, is that sometimes people need a little extra incentive to come out and try NESBA for the first time. We all know it is great product, they will too once they experience the product for themselves.

If NESBA said that the members of a particular group NEVER had to pay a membership and ALWAYS got discounted prices, etc. then I would have issue with that as well because it would indeed be unfair and discriminatory. This policy is a limited offer to a limited group for a specific (and much needed) purpose.

The cold hard facts are that the attrition rate of trackday folks is about 2 to 3 years on average. If NESBA does not promote in such a way as to bring in fresh blood all the time, then NESBA will quickly cease to exist. If NESBA wants to grow in spite of this attrition rate, it must do a great job in this area.

I think Brian is doing a good job and I support him. If I thought Brian was out of line, I would be the first to have my foot in his butt (and he would be the first to tell you that) - that is what friends are for

 

[geekmug]

rk97;135105 wrote: My take was, "if you get what you were promised, you can't really complain. The fact that someone else got MORE than they were promised doesn't hurt you; it only rewards them."
This is an aspect of replying to the weekend that I pondered over. I certainly enjoyed my weekend. It's possible I might have enjoyed it more with fewer people, but really, the intent of my reply was discuss what was best for NESBA and not what was best for me. My own personal experience was that nobody needed to convince me to come to NESBA and once I went, I signed up for everything possible.. and it's easy to forget that other people are not as crazy as I am.

Bucky Badger;135008 wrote: Having them join us for a day with a large group of their forums members provides the opportunity for them to experience what NESBA has to offer. Our experience shows us that a good number of them become NESBA members and ride with us again and again.
I appreciate the explanation of the rationale. I have no reason to doubt your word that it is an effective way to bring in new members, and I appreciate you talking to me about it.

ronhix;135133 wrote: If NESBA said that the members of a particular NEVER had to a membership and ALWAYS got a discount, etc. then I would have issue with that as well because it would indeed be unfair and discriminatory.

That was indeed my concern, and perhaps I was extra worked up about it because it was the first time it hadn't rained all over one of my track days since the BHF opener. But, I appreciate that the "future NESBA members" in question will have gotten a one-time deal.

ronhix;135133 wrote: At the end of the day, the attrition rate of trackday folks is about 2 to 3 years. If NESBA does not promote in such a way as to bring in fresh blood, NESBA will cease to exist. I think Brian is doing a good job and I support him.

I had no idea there was that sort of attrition rate. That shocks me the same way it does when people say, "I used to have a motorcycle." Like, what?! Why did you stop?! Having checked out the thread over at Ohio Riders again, it does like we got some new members, so hear, hear!

ronhix;135070 wrote: Keep working on those skills Scott and you will be in Intermediate before you know it, then all those "newbies" won't be in your way.

Thanks for the reminder! We'll see how things go at BHF..

 

[HondaGalToo]

ronhix;135133 wrote:
The cold hard facts are that the attrition rate of trackday folks is about 2 to 3 years on average.

Wow, really that short? I'm waaaay beyond my expiration date, then LOL. Most folks I know have been doing this a lot longer than that. Perhaps I just don't get to know the ones that don't stick around for years.

 

[lemondrop]

i'm in this gig for at least 10 years...gotta get my monies worth outta that lifetime membership

 

[stow]

I tried to quit after 4 years; after not riding on the track for 4 or 5 months I flipped out.

 

[HondaGalToo]

stow;135185 wrote: I tried to quit after 4 years; after not riding on the track for 4 or 5 months I flipped out.

That explains why I flip out in the winter around here. Six months downtime kills me. I'm not feeling comfy again till June. I should really start skiing/snowboarding again to make the winter tolerable.

This is season #15 for me. Yeah, I got it bad.

 

[Dave561]

HondaGalToo;135226 wrote: That explains why I flip out in the winter around here. Six months downtime kills me. I'm not feeling comfy again till June. I should really start skiing/snowboarding again to make the winter tolerable.

This is season #15 for me. Yeah, I got it bad.

Hence the need to make a trek or two down south for a little sun and track time.

 

[HondaGalToo]

slow_honda;135227 wrote: Hence the need to make a trek or two down south for a little sun and track time.

:idea: Yes, that's what I need, you're right. Jennings in February. Yeah. How the heck to I keep the water wetter from freezing on the trek down? I swap it out for the green stuff around November.

 

[Joe Vital]

HondaGalToo;135233 wrote: :idea: Yes, that's what I need, you're right. Jennings in February. Yeah. How the heck to I keep the water wetter from freezing on the trek down? I swap it out for the green stuff around November.

Do what Dave does and run Captain Morgan...