Summit Point - Shenny - 4/3/16

[JakeSizzle]

Who else is going to be there this day? It's my first time trailering with my Focus and a single rail trailer so I may ask for help loading/unloading...

Question regarding tires. I have a 2014 Street Triple R that I bought August 2014. I still have the original tires on it (4,600 miles total and 4 trackdays at intermediate pace). They aren't quite at the wear indicators yet and I'm really tempted to just run them one last day to kill them off before I put my fresh rubber on. I figure an early-season cold/slow shenny day should be okay for that. Thoughts?

 

[Thunderace]

Per the manual, you will need 50% of your tread left on your tires to pass technical inspection. If they are worn like you said, you will need to put on new tires. I really hate to tell people that they need to spend a bunch of money at the tire trailer the morning of an event. But, the rule is there for your safety, so it is enforced at every event.

 

[Dave561]

New tires are cheaper than bodywork

 

[Otto Man]

Nothing puts a bad taste in your mouth like crashing on the very first track day of the year, especially on a bike as nice and as new as yours. It's not what you want to hear, but get new tires. I just bought a track bike off a good friend of mine. It's been sitting for years, the tires have to be at least 4-5 years old. They look almost new. I won't track it until I get new tires for it. Does it kill me to throw away a set of slicks that look brand new? Absolutely. Would I be even MORE pissed at myself if I tucked the front or high sided because the tires were sub par, and I trashed up bodywork that had never been down? You bet.

We go to the track to go fast and have fun, if you can't go out and ride at the pace you want because you're worried about the tires, why the heck did you take time off work, coordinate logistics to get there, and pay for the track day...just to do parade laps? Of course no one can say for certain if the tires would put you at danger for crashing...but if you know they are worn, why risk it?

 

[JakeSizzle]

Sounds like I should put my new DRC's on before the trackday. Thanks for the input all! A new set on STG.com was only $270 so it really wasn't that expensive. I'll put them on and see you out there!

 

[i-Zapp]

because I'm a cheap bastard, and because there's a former tire engineer two offices down from me, I feel compelled to add my own comment... if you have a reasonable amount of tread as determined by your tire wear indicator (how is 50% actually determined by tech???), there's little reason to swap out those tires for running at intermediate pace for one more day. on most performance tires you've got to completely wear past the tread to get into the less grippy inner rubber and only then does it become an issue. rules are rules, and are there to protect the innocent. since you've made up your mind, it's a non issue.

 

[Otto Man]

We determine the amount of tread by the N2 rider's manual. Tire tread is covered under the tech section, page 18:

http://www.n2td.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/N2-Riders-Manual-Ver.-2.0.1.pdf

"Tire condition (1/2 tread in center) and pressure (Inflated to recommended track riding pressure)" Common sense dictates that if the sides of the tire are completely gone, it's not gonna pass tech.

If the tire is under 50% tread, I would disagree with you about the fact that there is little reason to change them, because if your tires fail tech, you don't ride until you change them. You can't get into the topic of available tire grip in a wearing tire without also discussing a rider's skill. Of the many things we look at for people to get bumped to Advanced group, smooth input on the bike controls is one of them. If people tend to stab the brakes and/or whack the throttle in a corner (Not terribly uncommon to see in Novice/Intermediate), what works out to "the bike being a little wobbly" on the brakes/throttle with tires that are at 50% will put you on your ass with tires at 25% or less tread.

The tire tread rule, like most other things in the rule book, are there for the rider's safety. We are all volunteer's here at N2. None of us do this for a living, we don't get a commission if you buy tires from anyone. We want you guys to be riding for a long time, and if you constantly go out riding on worn out tires all the time, you're gonna crash more. And when you crash more, you damage yourself and your bike more (assuming you don't take anyone else out when you crash). Every crash, even a simple low side, is at least a foot peg and a clip on, and at least one or two missed sessions. That's not even counting your riding gear, and this is assuming you walk away without any injuries, and do not care about your bikes bodywork. Add up all that, and it's easy to see it's much cheaper (and far less painful) to just get a new tire(s).

 

[JakeSizzle]

I breezed through the manual but didn't see an answer. Does N2 require the tape on your tank with your shift pattern and last name?

 

[i-Zapp]

all the manual says is "Tire condition (1/2 tread in center) and pressure (Inflated to recommended track riding
pressure)", which speaks to my point of how exactly is that determined... to determine "1/2 tread" you'd need to know what the "new tread" measurement was. I get the point, but it's just not very specific and lends itself to interpretation.

maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I seem to always wear the SIDES of my tires out before the center (at least the front). and the sides are what I care about, not the center...

 

[Otto Man]

I breezed through the manual but didn't see an answer. Does N2 require the tape on your tank with your shift pattern and last name?

No, but it's highly recommended. If you crash and the corner workers have to load your bike, it lets them know what direction to shift to try and find neutral so they can load up your bike.

 

[Otto Man]

all the manual says is "Tire condition (1/2 tread in center) and pressure (Inflated to recommended track riding
pressure)", which speaks to my point of how exactly is that determined... to determine "1/2 tread" you'd need to know what the "new tread" measurement was. I get the point, but it's just not very specific and lends itself to interpretation.

maybe I'm doing something wrong, but I seem to always wear the SIDES of my tires out before the center (at least the front). and the sides are what I care about, not the center...

You have a fair point about the tread depth on the sides, maybe we need to look at the manual and specific 1/2 tread in the center AND on the sides. We have a lot of street riders, and seeing tires that are more worn in the center than the edges is not at all uncommon.

I am confident in any N2 control rider that they have enough experience with looking at tires, new and used (and riding on them) to tell you roughly how much life is left in it. There are a ton of variables - tire brand, compound, pressure, ambient temp, what track, rider's pace...essentially, there is no black and white definitive answer with the amount of variables, but we can give you a pretty accurate ball park estimate. You are correct, interpretation plays a certain degree in a bike passing tech - but on the flip side, it's literally impossible to have it completely black and white. What about brake pads? Should we pull off the brake pads from each bike rolling through tech and measure pad thickness with a digital caliper to see if it meets the minimum thickness as 'recommended' by the manufacturer? There comes a certain point where you just have to use your best judgement.

Here's the BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front): If it's questionable, replace it. Whether it's your tires, brake pads, or whatever. This sport is already high risk enough as is. There is no need to compound the risk factors by running mediocre equipment. If the item in question has you asking yourself "I'm not sure if it'll pass tech", you are already subconsciously acknowledging that it needs addressed.

 

[i-Zapp]

Here's the BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front): If it's questionable, replace it. Whether it's your tires, brake pads, or whatever. This sport is already high risk enough as is. There is no need to compound the risk factors by running mediocre equipment. If the item in question has you asking yourself "I'm not sure if it'll pass tech", you are already subconsciously acknowledging that it needs addressed.

+++ you are 100% right, that IS the bottom line. last thing you want on the track is ANY amount of doubt about the soundness of your equipment. I'd venture a guess THAT is what causes more crashes than half worn tires.

 

[JakeSizzle]

Thanks for the info on the shift pattern/last name. It was required at all my TPM trackdays. I went on DecalGorilla.com and was able to order a handful of decals with my shift pattern and name! no more scribbling on blue tape!

 

[Dave561]

Never a bad idea. Hopefully you won't need to let anyone else know the shift pattern or your name.

 

[Motofun352]

I hesitate to add (but I will ).....this is about having fun and being as safe as reasonably possible....if your tires suck, where is your head gonna be? Is fun going to be about learning, going fast , executing a cool pass...or is it going to be about keeping it upright?

 

[JakeSizzle]

Any experienced riders have any input on how to prep for a cold-morning trackday? planning to wear under armor under my 1-piece instead of my usual wicking suit. Any recommendation for keeping hands warm?

I'll let my buddies running summit main on 3/26 with TPM be my first hand report on how a cold morning feels.

 

[Motofun352]

I find that I'm so jacked when out on the track that I don't feel the cold. I'll wear slightly heavier socks, my undersuit works both for hot and cold. THE issue is keeping tire temp in my head....last year at Summit on the first day (it was kinda cold...55 if I remember?), 3 laps in I thought I was good to go....I was wrong....

 

[JakeSizzle]

lowside or a highside?

Shenny was my first TD of last season on 4/25 and that was a seriously chilly morning. Wore a neck cover and under armor under my suit. I might also bring some latex gloves to try to wear under my gloves to stay warm.

 

[JakeSizzle]

Anyone else going to be at this event on Sunday? What approach does N2 take with cancelling a day? Do they cancell day-of if weather conditions look bad/cold/? Do they cancel a day if low attendence is projected?

Just curious, with a high of 47F, I'll either need to wear my winter gear or freeze

 

[rob92]

Yup, there are indeed people signed up to ride. We do not cancel days for 50 degrees . Unless we feel a track is unsafe (standing water, lightning, etc.), we ride rain or shine. Most would rather ride in 50 degrees with the sun hitting the pavement than 70 and wet. For those that do not prefer to ride in less than ideal conditions, we offer the Elite membership. It allows you to decide up to the morning of the event and receive full credit for cancellation, offers additional $ off track days and NO late registration penalty (space must be available, tho, to register). Don't like the weather, your friend kept you up all night snoring... cancel completely at your discretion.