Sunday I group crash, thanks and apologies...

[arhale09]

I had my first "cold tire episode" this weekend, and I just wanted to again thank Mike and Chuck and the couple other gentlemen who essentially packed up my shit while I sat around useless. Thanks again guys! I would have been in a bad way without you.

And aplogies to all of "I" group for cutting short an already shortened day. I wish I could have dusted myself off and gotten back out there and prevented another red flag, but I just couldn't. If any of you guys were behind me when I went down through the chicane in the afternoon, I'd love to hear what it looked like from your perspective.

I am assuming your rear stepping out on the first lap would likely be a cold tire issue? Any other thoughts would be appreciated.

Oh, and as always, thanks to the CR's.

andy hale
i-21

 

[zangman]

Andy,
Glad you were at least hobbling around. Hope you are feeling better. There were three of us that helped you out, not counting the EMT's and crash crew helping load your stuff up.
Thank Chuckie first, he was the primary guy helping you out, then Mike, then me. That is why we are a family. When someone needs help then we chip in.

I didn't see what happened but saw you on the ground with the corner worker with you when I came around to the chicane after the red flag. I was about half a lap around from where you went down.

Get healed soon. Hope nothing was broken.

 

[chucke133]

arhale09;20770 wrote: I had my first "cold tire episode" this weekend, and I just wanted to again thank Mike and Chuck and the couple other gentlemen who essentially packed up my shit while I sat around useless. Thanks again guys! I would have been in a bad way without you.

andy hale
i-21

No problem Andy. How's the ankle?

 

[Ruhe52]

Hey Andy no worries like John said we are family. Just like blood family you get us if you want us or not. Sorry you went down. With all the breaks in the day and delays etc not running warmers and going out and running hot with the guys that odds on had warmers you probably needed the rest of that lap before turning up the volume to 11.
I bet the drive home was rough. Three peddles to work and one foot. Hope your ankle is feeling way better but it will no doubt take some time. What if anything new has your Dr said? (you did go didn't you)

Again glad to help sorry we had to heal up and get your ass right back out there.

 

[gcutchen]

Andy, glad you are ok (for the most part). Unfortunately I was too far behind your group to witness what happened, but my guess would be that you possibly got a little too aggressive with the throttle.

While cold tires could have played a part, since we were on the out lap I don't think your CR would have had you guys up to full speed by that point. So that is what makes me think that it may have been related more to your right hand than a cold tire.

You can carry a lot of speed through that section and obviously have the bike really cranked over on the edge of the tire on exit. So you just have to remember to be really smooth rolling on the throttle on exit and make sure you have the bike up off the edge of the tire before you go WOT.

Again, I didn't see your specific mishap so I can't say for sure but I have seen a lot of them in that section and in most cases it was due to being too aggressive with the throttle too soon.

I hope you heal up soon.

 

[speedfree]

I noticed you were running Power Race's? If you weren't running warmers (I didn't see any around your pit, and you were on the non-power side of the paddock), it could very well be a cold tire issue. Even on street tires, I usually take a whole lap at 8/10ths to warm everything (including my brain!) up. Glad you made it back to Durham OK, and I hope it's just a sprain. Even if it is, go easy on that thing for a few weeks. PM me if you need some PT advice - I have notoriously bad ankles & have suffered a few!

 

[stkr]

Glad to hear you're doing reasonably well. I was just a few turns behind you, and when I came by there was someone tending to you as you laid on the ground. That was not a good sight to see so early in the morning, but at least you're okay.

Heal up fast

 

[arhale09]

Hey guys,

It turns out my ankle is just sprained, and I will be out of work for at least a week with a reevaluation next week. The swelling went down over the first night, but then sitting in the car for 8 hours made the thing swell up like a football! All in all I think I got away pretty well, with the pain getting less each day. Again, thanks for all of your help, I owe you all a few beers next time out.

Gill, I had thought much the same as you are saying here. I honestly had always assumed you wouldn't have a cold tire problem at "I" pace, especially with a CR leading us out. It seems we just wouldn't be that fast yet, but as I was riding comfortably and getting through the apex of Turn 10 the back end just started stepping out. I had been smooth on the throttle, picking it up before 10 and maintenance throttle through the turn. WOT doesn't happen for me till the bike is pretty well upright. I could be forgetting it completely, but I don't think there was an abrupt throttle input there, but I could be wrong. I usually like to start out VERY slow, and I was faster than normal that session, so maybe my brain and throttle hand just weren't up to speed...

andy hale
i-21

 

[sheepofblue]

NEVER apologize for staying down when hurt it is the correct thing to do. Glad you are feeling somewhat better

 

[JVance]

Andy,

Sorry to hear about your get off. Some of the CR's seem to forget that most I riders do not use warmers and most likely they have a little heat in the tires from running in the A group. Glad to hear you are not seriously hurt. I hope the bike is not too bad. Let me know if you need help with something. I still have your manual. email me you address and I'll get it to you one way or another.

Later,

John

 

[Rick Johnson]

Tirewarmers are a great investment.I bought some right after I made to I group.It's a real confidence booster knowing your tires are already warmed up when you hit the track.You can get some fairly decent ones for around $275 that will do the job.I'm A group now and usually keep them on till last call so I can just go out a ride hard every lap unless I get to pit out and there is a slight delay I'll take alittle easier the first lap or so.Good luck healing!

 

[arhale09]

Hey John,

Old Girl is not too bad off, considering she went down at 90+ mph, but I think I'll need the manual to work on some of the wiring repairs. I'll get it from you in the next few weeks before old man winter gets here.

As to the warmers and whatnot, it seems like most of the "I" guys were running warmers down there, and I have never seen so many slicks...even saw some in B group. I've avoided warmers cuz I am just not that fast and I'd feel silly running 'em, but maybe I will pick up a pair, just in the hopes of avoiding anything like this again. But I think I'll feel like the guy running a spoiler on the back of his 1988 Honda Civic

andy

 

[speedfree]

Tire warmers don't really have anything to do with how fast you are or aren't; they have a couple major benefits:

1. The ability to dial in your "hot" tire pressure before you turn a lap - thus being in the ideal operating window for the design of the tire...otherwise it's a crapshoot until after your first session.

2. The tires will last longer because the number of "heat cycles" is reduced. Tires lose their grip as the molecular structure of the rubber compund changes with multiple heat cycles. The fewer times you can heat them/cool them/heat them again, the better - and your tires can be used all the way up before they start to go off.

Most people misuse the race takeoffs they get, thinking the tire is instantly going to be a better tire b/c it's a "race" tire. Not necessarily the case. Race takeoffs need warmers more than a trackday tire such as the PP or DC3, b/c they don't even work until they're up to full temp, plus they are much more sensitive to heat cycling than trackday rubber.

A wing on a Honda Civic is just stupid. Tirewarmers r smart!

 

[JVance]

Warmers can help you avoid a crash due to a cold tire. If you only avoid 1 crash they will usually pay for themselves.

Another factor can be the fact that you are not warmed up either. On the first lap I get a little lazy and don't bother to get my butt moving like I should because the pace is slow anyway. That is a bad idea and just adds to factors that can contribute to a first lap/cold tire crash. Not moving your butt like you normally would = more lean on an already cold tire.

Get rid of the Michelins!!! The Pirellie's are great and you will be hard pressed to beat Dereks prices and service!!

 

[gcutchen]

JVance;20876 wrote: ....... Some of the CR's seem to forget that most I riders do not use warmers and most likely they have a little heat in the tires from running in the A group. ..........

Later,

John

Not at all. He specifically asked if anyone had any other ideas (besides the cold tire) that could have contributed to his crash. And from what I have experienced and witnessed, I gave him additional input based on that.

While I said it could have very well been attributed to the cold tire, I want him to at least think about other potential contributing factors.

 

[arhale09]

I am sure there were some other contributing factors (late in the day fatigue, lazy body position, maybe an abrupt input, head not up to speed, etc) piled on top of cold tires, which could have all added up.

At least I have the winter to decide about the warmers and entertain new tire ideas, as well as pick up some new pants and gloves. I was really upset to see the Held's bust a seem....

andy

 

[JVance]

Hey Gil what's up?

My wording was off. In my other post I gave other ideas of what could have caused it too. I do however think it is a real good idea for the I and B group riders to realize that on the first few laps the CR may have heat in the tires from riding in the previous group (especially I since it is right after A) and perhaps the CR takes off at a pace a little faster than he or she realizes and the following rider just may try to keep up sooner than they should. I am not saying that is what happened, I am just saying it's plausable and could be a contributing factor.

You CR's are so, so sensitive . I wasn't challenging your input. Certainly wacking the throttle there could do it.

See y'all at Barber in a month.

John

 

[Folly1]

I am cheap and HATED spending money on warmers (softeners) but a buddy was nice enough to crash 3 times on the out lap for me and I finally saw the light. Christmas is coming up. Be nice to your wife/husband/SO and get them a set of warmers for you to use so that they don't have to deal with your broken body.

Ben.

 

[drdoom]

I saw It Happen

Andy,

I was about 30-40 yards behind you went you went down! Although it was hard to tell exactly why...my initial thought when I saw what happened, was that your tires just basically lost grip...It looked as though you just pushed way wide when throttling, you compensated by leaning hard and there was no grip for you. As I (and one other rider) passed you, I knew there was going to be a red flag...It looked like you hit hard.

Sure glad you are okay. That's what I saw.

-Rob
05 Gsxr 1000
I 33