The politics of being bumped

[PJZOCC624]

TDA;141322 wrote: Key word "WATCHED" you didn't ride in them. It's easy to offer an opinion when you aren't involved. I guess our view of "clear track" is different. When you get can't go more than 2 turns without hitting a line of 10 people I don't call that a clear track. Maybe my definition is off.

When I see a pack of 10 bikes thunder down the front straight, followed by 7 to 10 seconds of no bikes, then a pair or three come down the front, followed by another 7 second gap, and then a pack of five or six bikes... this happened routinely throughout the day. And not just watching the front. I was at turn 12, and I could see 4-5, 7-9, the esses... My point is, if you do come upon a big bunch of bikes, pit out, roll down hot pit, and roll back out when the marshall lets you on. Chances are you're gonna get a cushion. I did this 2 or 3 times yesterday. But, if your idea of "clear track" means there's nobody in front of you for laps at a time, then you really won't get that at a track day unless you rent the track by yourself, for yourself. Part of the fun, IMO, of a track day is passing people, and learning how to deal with a big group of bikes in front of me. I go out at the very end some sessions just so I can work on dealing with large packs, and working on good clean passes.

I'm not trying to be combative, but to say CRs were overwhelmed, or the track was overcrowded (neither was the case), is inaccurate. Sometimes, the rider can help to alleviate some of the on-track issues that you have mentioned. But use those situations not as a point of complaint, but more as an opportunity to learn and work on your skills.

 

[TDA]

So I must have imagined the hour long meeting at lunch telling the B group how crowded and how much of a mess it was. What track were you at yesterday ?

 

[fitz]

TDA;141323 wrote: LOL....That's all I'm saying. Very well put!!:agree:

LOL, not sure if I'd say it is an example of politcs though.

More like part of the perks of being a CR

 

[nickmick]

what exactly would you like NESBA to do about people being asshats?

it looks like they were doing all they could trying to sort out the mess of B. sorry you got stuck in it, but it's not NESBA's fault the people who attended decided to be jags.

 

[PJZOCC624]

TDA;141340 wrote: So I must have imagined the hour long meeting at lunch telling the B group how crowded and how much of a mess it was. What track were you at yesterday ?

Crowded does not mean OVERCROWDED. And the mess that was out there was created by the RIDERS in the group. People riding over their heads, aggressive, out of control, UNSAFE. I guess that is the fault of the CRs, since they're the ones making those riders weave and go 3 wide into turns.

Go ahead, man, grind your axe...

 

[fitz]

gorecki;141333 wrote: ugly40+males. opcorn:

lololol!

 

[GSXdoubleR88ciNINJA]

Legitimate first post. Good feed back too.

Ya I got my butt chewed out for looking back at the CR... don't do that.

 

[BigBird]

EngineNoO9;141332 wrote: I always hear traffic is an issue but I rarely see people use hot pit to get clear track. I did this a couple times in I group yesterday. I rode around most of the day without seeing very many people and our group was full. :dunno:

ummmm...in group Mike Miller had a great lunch meeting trying to make things better. It was totally crazy in the morning, people inside passing (and when i confronted them they said it was allowed :doh: ), no rhythm, tons of parades.

I came into hot pits for one, two, sometime 3 times for a gap, in about 4 sessions, and then run into a group of riders in less than half a lap.

The later afternoon sessions was much better and it was fun to pass once the crowd thinned out some.

One of the other major problems was that people do not know where to stage. I've been to a number of trackdays, and I know I'm not good (hence all my crashes), but A LOT of people with a slow pace were lining up in the fast lane.

Because you have a R1, GSXR1000, ZX-10R, have a Rossi Helmet, wear his number, gave Ben Spies a handshake, does not make you fast. If you never get off the seat, and only blast it down the straights and park it in the corners, stage in the right lane, near the back and learn. Lets all learn together, and let those faster get some free track, so we can learn to catch them.

 

[BigBird]

and not to go off topic, the do their "jobs" extremely well. Giving back to the community, by VOLUNTEERING and helping us all get better. I feel that all bumps are well deserved, and if your good enough, I think they'll find you.

 

[Mikey75702]

TDA;141340 wrote: So I must have imagined the hour long meeting at lunch telling the B group how crowded and how much of a mess it was. What track were you at yesterday ?

Nesba's version of crowded is actually pretty light. If you think nesba was over crowded, you need to ride with motorcyclexcitement at summit main. It was my first time on main and i could have passed all but a handful of riders if i was on a Harley. There must have been 40+ people out there ( literally, not this over exaggeration you hear on here sometime) and I think maybe 10 of those people had been on a track before. Nesba does a good job at not over booking and the control riders do a decect job at keeping things flowing. But the ability of them to manage traffic requires all of the riders in the group to listen and follow directions. If you are a slower guy working with a control rider when traffic comes, follow him off the race line, dont get your ego hurt and try to win the trackday. And if you are one of the faster guys, relax, be patient, and set up the pass properly. For example, I was as jefferson July 3rd, and it took me 4 laps to pass a guy because he out powered me severely on the straights but was slow in the turns. I would get a good run out of a corner, pass him, and by the end of the straight he would be back infront of me. But i took the advice of one of the guys i run with and just kept my cool, finally I got a good drive, went late on the brakes, and just stuffed it into the corner and didn't have to see that guy anymore. As the faster guys have said, it just takes patience.

 

[Bubba Zanetti]

If I had a dollar for eveytime one of these threads flairs up I could buy that two-stroke track bike I've always wanted.

BZ

 

[fitz]

Mikey75702;141358 wrote: There must have been 40+ people out there ( literally, not this over exaggeration you hear on here sometime)

I like Nesba, but come on, you must have been lucky at all your Nesba Summit Main events, on some days I would say there was close to 50 bikes with all the intro riders etc.. in the morning, no hot pitting or setting up to pass a clump of 15+ is going to help when an intro rider is going 5mph in a turn, you catch back up pretty fast (NO exageration). Crap happens.

Last weekend at VIR full my wife counted 70+ bikes on the track, bigger track yes, but still.



All you can do is make the best of your day with what you are given. You can then choose to ride again with Nesba or not, but chances are you are going to have less luck OVERALL with other organizations.

fitz

 

[avizpls]

you poor poor CR's. I do not envy you.

You just get SHAT upon, when really we all owe you a great thank you (as many of us do)

I think TDA needs to do some days with other orgs and see how that works out.

 

[chaveezy]

I thought VIR Full was pretty nicely organized, seemed pretty light on track in the group. When I was lined up I did take a peek back, and there did LOOK like a lot of bikes but when I was out there it didn't seem so bad, just look at my video.

It's ok Venom/TDA, we're actually trying to HELP you oorguy:

 

[PJZOCC624]

Bubba Zanetti;141361 wrote: If I had a dollar for eveytime one of these threads flairs up I could buy that two-stroke track bike I've always wanted.

BZ

If I had a dollar for every time my hemaroids flared up....

Wait...... what???

 

[lemondrop]

TDA;141317 wrote: I'm not doubting your skill. I am curious how you would maintain your pace when you are restricted from passing on the entire back section of the track. If I had been able to pass there wouldn't have been such an issue for me at least.

I am not saying that I am skillful. I am saying that traffic should not be an issue. If it is, you do not 1) have god entry speed or 2) do not have good exit speed, compiled with 3) poor judge of distance between other bikes/speeds. These three things are crucial to going to the next step.

If you are able to properly judge the speed of the bike ahead of you, and you are able to set your entry/exit so as to not run up the person's pipe at the apex, you should be able to ZOOM by them at the exit (which is legal in the rules of Beginner). It does not matter if they are on a 1000 and you are a 600.

So, if you cannot do these things and are "caught up" in the traffic, then you are not ready.

 

[eE jeremy]

eE jeremy;141335 wrote: TDA, you can make all the excuses you want, but when you're ready to get bumped out of B you'll find you no longer "get stuck" in traffic. My first time in B I felt how you do, and I got the same talk by more experienced riders I'm giving you now. The day I got bumped out of B I was flying around the track passing everyone effortlessly, nobody was holding me up more than a couple seconds, when you're really riding a much faster pace and capabile of good decision making and pass PLANNING, you'll have no problem taking people going into and coming out of the corners. Heck, half the passes I made in I group were B group legal passes, and I'm on a stock 600. It's all about getting a good drive out of the corners or getting on the brakes later going into the corners.

IF you truely want to get bumped, here's what you need to do, stop looking for the bump, go out and focus on your riding, focus on your passing skills, focus on being a better rider. Line up at the front of your group every time to minimize the traffic in front of you and just ride your own ride. When you're ready they'll bump you up.
lemondrop;141376 wrote: I am not saying that I am skillful. I am saying that traffic should not be an issue. If it is, you do not 1) have god entry speed or 2) do not have good exit speed, compiled with 3) poor judge of distance between other bikes/speeds. These three things are crucial to going to the next step.

If you are able to properly judge the speed of the bike ahead of you, and you are able to set your entry/exit so as to not run up the person's pipe at the apex, you should be able to ZOOM by them at the exit (which is legal in the rules of Beginner). It does not matter if they are on a 1000 and you are a 600.

So, if you cannot do these things and are "caught up" in the traffic, then you are not ready.

We speak the truth yo

 

[beevan217]

To TDA-

Not trying to pick on you but, since you've offered yourself up.... This is what I saw:

The MAJORITY of the day, I watched the I & B guys since 2 of my friends ride in those groups. Like it was stated previously, there were big clumps of riders BUT, I also saw several people come into hot pit, pull up to Keith (Track Marshall) & he got them plenty of space. Things do look differently on track than off but, if you ever decide to sit out a session, you'll see what the people are talking about when we say there's room if the option of "hot pit" is used. There were a lot of bikes out there yesterday but, there were also tons of space. I'm not going to comment on your ability to ride since 1- I'm not a CR & 2- I don't know you & haven't seen you ride. All I ask as a fellow member that came up through the NESBA ranks is take a moment & see things from a different perspective or at least be open to the fact that there is a different perspective to take.

I also saw that there were a good number of B riders that were crawling down the front straight then parking & polishing their bikes in turns (just kidding) while others made their way around them. There was one rider in particular that looked as if he were learning to ride a bike while at a track day. Even still, people made their was safely around him/her. There was an older gentleman that rides a blue Kawi 650R (I think) & he hot pitted a few times during the day & found some space.

To the Original Poster- I'll just say that your "friend" should have said something (if you/he/she didn't) while at the track instead of posting here on forum. The CR's & rest of the staff emphasize that point in the riders meeting EVERY riders meeting. Don't talk about it on the boards the day after, if there's an issue address it while at the track so they can deal with it or at least try to. Good luck to your friend.

To the comment about disparity- There's always going to be someone faster, smoother, more consistent at every level whether it's track days or racing. From my experience doing track days, I try to gather as much info on riding better from different sources be it CR's, my friends that are faster & some not that may see something I may not in my riding & do my best to apply that info. There's a wealth of info out here for what we LOVE to do, we just have to use it. Talk to the Cr's & staff, watch vids, read books, talk to your riding buddies if you have them & find what works as best possible.

**sorry for the long post LOL**

I'll leave the "40+ yr old man versus cute woman" comment alone. LOL

 

[beevan217]

pjzocc17;141375 wrote: if i had a dollar for every time my hemaroids flared up....

Wait...... What???

lmao!!!

 

[Bluenvy]

BigBird;141356 wrote: Lets all learn together

*e-hug*awwww

i have nothing else to add, its all been covered :rtfm: