Tire warmers

[g_debell757]

I'm fairly new to the sport but loving it. Just recently got a track dedicated bike. It came with pirelli superior v3 tires. They were pretty much new. They now have two trackdays on them. Can I use tire warmers on these tires? I'm told they are dot but geared for the track. I'm trying to learn as much as possible about tires. Is it worth getting warmers? Thanks in advance.

 

[bmart]

Welcome! Superior model Pirelli?

I like the security of going out with warm tires, but the second reason for warmers is to set PSI consistently, due to having the same tire temp regardless of ambient temp.

People who sell/run Pirelli can help with that bit!

 

[g_debell757]

Welcome! Superior model Pirelli?

I like the security of going out with warm tires, but the second reason for warmers is to set PSI consistently, due to having the same tire temp regardless of ambient temp.

People who sell/run Pirelli can help with that bit!

Well I've asked a few people about this subject. I guess it depends on who you ask because many have stated to not use warmers on a dot tire, they are for slicks.

 

[bmart]

I can tell you that isn't true at all. Keep in mind that many people at track days use street DOTs as well as race DOTs. Since pretty early days, I've run warmers on my tires at the track, mainly to get PSI in the ballpark.

I can tell you that my Dunlop DOTs go up ~8 PSI from cold (varies by ambient temps) to off of the warmers, which are around 180F. I generally use 1 PSI for 10F change as a guide. I also do the same on the street. My garage is insulated and cool. If I'm going out on a hot day, I adjust the garage PSI to accomodate. Yesterday was 2 PSI low for the 20F difference from garage to ambient. It isn't "science" but it will get you in the ballpark.

 

[NothingClever]

Can I use tire warmers on these tires? I'm told they are dot but geared for the track. I'm trying to learn as much as possible about tires. Is it worth getting warmers?

To answer your question - yes, I think warmers are worth buying because they mitigate the risk of cold tires and they bolster first lap confidence. However, I defer to CRs like @bmart, @tdelegram @meanstrk etc since they’ve probably forgotten more about tires than I know. Here’s what I’ve gathered:

1) DOT tires + no warmers = fine, ride like a yellow flag is out for a lap or two, advantage with DOT tires is you don’t have to sit out rainy sessions

2) DOT track day (TD) tires + no warmers = good, one yellow flag lap to warm them up and then start picking up the pace, TD tires are DOT legal but may have less siping than regular DOT tires

3) DOT TD tires + warmers = better, attack with confidence, may see faster wear than the street-duty DOT tires

4) Race slicks + warmers = best, you’re probably obsessing over pressures and track conditions now, analyzing your line and corner speed, thinking about consistency, how to shave off the tenths each lap, now probably scouting out classifieds for a second set of wheels to mount dedicated racing rain tires

5) Race slicks + no warmers = red flag, trash truck is on its way, maybe ambulance, too.

Pirelli makes great tires but so do Dunlop and Michelin. All three sponsor world-class racing so hard to pick a bad tire. Might get the stink eye if you show up with Shinkos.

 

[bmart]

"Bob's getting the Shinkeye..."

 

[meanstrk]

I look at it like this: Warmers are cheap insurance for that first lap, and if you are spending two laps a session rolling around trying to get heat in the tires, you blow the equivalent of an entire session through the day, which decreases your ROI for the track costs.

 

[Motofun352]

Warmers can be a mixed bag for N & I groups, not that they don't work. It's just that they can give a false sense of security. We can sit down on hot pit for several minutes waiting for a pick-up from a previous session. During that time the tires are losing heat. Sometimes I wish we had an electronic sign like they use on the interstates at pit-out where we could flash COLD TIRES at the riders. Think of all the time, money and hurt we could avoid minimizing those first lap crashes.

 

[g_debell757]

To answer your question - yes, I think warmers are worth buying because they mitigate the risk of cold tires and they bolster first lap confidence. However, I defer to CRs like @bmart, @tdelegram @meanstrk etc since they’ve probably forgotten more about tires than I know. Here’s what I’ve gathered:

1) DOT tires + no warmers = fine, ride like a yellow flag is out for a lap or two, advantage with DOT tires is you don’t have to sit out rainy sessions

2) DOT track day (TD) tires + no warmers = good, one yellow flag lap to warm them up and then start picking up the pace, TD tires are DOT legal but may have less siping than regular DOT tires

3) DOT TD tires + warmers = better, attack with confidence, may see faster wear than the street-duty DOT tires

4) Race slicks + warmers = best, you’re probably obsessing over pressures and track conditions now, analyzing your line and corner speed, thinking about consistency, how to shave off the tenths each lap, now probably scouting out classifieds for a second set of wheels to mount dedicated racing rain tires

5) Race slicks + no warmers = red flag, trash truck is on its way, maybe ambulance, too.

Pirelli makes great tires but so do Dunlop and Michelin. All three sponsor world-class racing so hard to pick a bad tire. Might get the stink eye if you show up with Shinkos.

Good information. Thank you

 

[NothingClever]

@g_debell757 - To address what @Motofun352 brought up (tires losing heat while waiting), I avoid gridding up. I get jocked up like everyone else with the grid marshal’s loudspeaker calls but stand by in my paddock (in the shade, off my bike) until I hear engines whine. Once I hear bikes getting released, I strip off my warmers and roll out to the grid marshal station for a wave on. Most times I get waved right onto the track. The most I’ve had to wait at the grid marshal station is literally seconds (for spacing). My tires are warm and I’m able to go right into a hot lap…well, sorta. This technique means I’m guaranteed to have traffic in front of me but clean and courteous passing is something I’m working on this season so I don’t mind.

This technique works if I’m riding on my own or with a buddy.

If I want to work with a CR (lead/follow, swap positions and debrief), I’ll need to grid up early like everyone else.

 

[bmart]

MotoE is some of the best racing available to watch right now. They have a superb graphic on live tire temp during the races. If you can, have a look. This is why there isn't "a PSI" or "a temp." There's an enormous variation in temp from warmer to sitting, to on track...varying further still by pace, bike/rider weight, track surface temp, etc.

We don't need "the answer" but instead, reasonable bookends to work within and understand. Warmers and some basic knowledge can give you those.

https://www.epaddock.it/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/DutchGP-MotoE-2021-800x450-64.jpg