Tire wear patterns (front)

[JTRC51]

Good articles that mirrors Dave Moss's teachings on tire wear. http://biketrackdayshub.com/motorcycle-tyre-wear-guide

Reading through this I was interested in the front geometry tear section only because I closely watch my rear tire wear patterns and not so much on the front, probably because the front feels so planted and well balanced. But if one were to have Geometry tears (i.e. too much weight or not enough weight on the front) how is that adjusted? raising rear, lowering front or vice versa ?? considering the spring rates also ?

Too much weight on the front

Cause - As the above heading would suggest, the other type of geometry tear is too much weight on the front. What happens in this instance is that when you start to turn the bike into a corner, because of the excessive weight on the front it will actually plough across the ground (rather than rolling), and it's only when you have finished turning the bike and get back on the gas that you take the weight away from the front end and the tyre is relieved.

As well as having too much weight on the front, this type of tear can often be caused by the front end being too soft in conjunction with too much weight.

Symptoms - What you'll see is a much smaller band of tearing that looks very similar to hot tear on a rear tyre, only the band will be about 5-10mm thick, usually about half way between the centre of the tyre and the edge. Again like having not enough weight on the front, if the wear pattern closely follows the circumference of the tyre it is most likely geometry related, if not pressure.

 

[andykurz]

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

 

[avizpls]

More weight on the front means lower the front in relation to the rear. so lower front AND/OR raise rear. Watch out for the side-effects this will have on swing-arm angle and rake angle. Very few adjustments affect only one thing.

 

[okgo]

Is this an example of too much weight on the front ?? should be a pic

 

[Spork]

okgo;292218 wrote: Is this an example of too much weight on the front ?? should be a pic

yes , please extended the swing arm , and strap the front end .

 

[Spork]

JTRC51;291923 wrote: Good articles that mirrors Dave Moss's teachings on tire wear. http://biketrackdayshub.com/motorcycle-tyre-wear-guide

Reading through this I was interested in the front geometry tear section only because I closely watch my rear tire wear patterns and not so much on the front, probably because the front feels so planted and well balanced. But if one were to have Geometry tears (i.e. too much weight or not enough weight on the front) how is that adjusted? raising rear, lowering front or vice versa ?? considering the spring rates also ?

Too much weight on the front

Cause - As the above heading would suggest, the other type of geometry tear is too much weight on the front. What happens in this instance is that when you start to turn the bike into a corner, because of the excessive weight on the front it will actually plough across the ground (rather than rolling), and it's only when you have finished turning the bike and get back on the gas that you take the weight away from the front end and the tyre is relieved.

As well as having too much weight on the front, this type of tear can often be caused by the front end being too soft in conjunction with too much weight.

Symptoms - What you'll see is a much smaller band of tearing that looks very similar to hot tear on a rear tyre, only the band will be about 5-10mm thick, usually about half way between the centre of the tyre and the edge. Again like having not enough weight on the front, if the wear pattern closely follows the circumference of the tyre it is most likely geometry related, if not pressure.

Thats exactly what my bike was doing last time I tired to carry speed through the corners , but My Front had no visible tearing .

 

[okgo]

Spork;292343 wrote: yes , please extended the swing arm , and strap the front end .

how do mods for a powerful drag bike have anything to do with tire wear on a ex500? The Dunlop gt 501 is a good tire within its category no doubt but where should someone go about improving tire wear? Compression? Rebound? Preload... theres just so much to mess with, as a rider if your not consistent tuning means nothing because you could be taking the corner slightly different making you think its the bike/setup whatever when really its rider error. Is 4 months and lets say 6k normal for a sport touring tire? If anyone could point me in the right direction thatd be great..

oh yeah 1 more thing coming into a corner(bit before the apex) just getting off the brakes, craking the throttle open or neutral throttle ill smoothly increase gas and lean a bit more but the front just dont follow.. i mean its ight i guess, its not like suddenly hitting ice but if i dont keep that steady smooth increase going id probly weight the front that bit more slamming me into the pavement. Used to get entry/ just before apex chatter till i started to weight the pegs properly, its like day and night seriously weighting the pegs properly can sometimes get you that extra grip you need. Ill chase the perfect mid corner setup for this ex till i die and if i do find it think i could surprise alot of people..someday i hope

please ride safe, dont hit me

 

[avizpls]

4mo/6K is about par. Maybe even a little better than some will see.

 

[andykurz]

okgo;292773 wrote: how do mods for a powerful drag bike have anything to do with tire wear on a ex500? The Dunlop gt 501 is a good tire within its category no doubt but where should someone go about improving tire wear? Compression? Rebound? Preload... theres just so much to mess with, as a rider if your not consistent tuning means nothing because you could be taking the corner slightly different making you think its the bike/setup whatever when really its rider error. Is 4 months and lets say 6k normal for a sport touring tire? If anyone could point me in the right direction thatd be great..

oh yeah 1 more thing coming into a corner(bit before the apex) just getting off the brakes, craking the throttle open or neutral throttle ill smoothly increase gas and lean a bit more but the front just dont follow.. i mean its ight i guess, its not like suddenly hitting ice but if i dont keep that steady smooth increase going id probly weight the front that bit more slamming me into the pavement. Used to get entry/ just before apex chatter till i started to weight the pegs properly, its like day and night seriously weighting the pegs properly can sometimes get you that extra grip you need. Ill chase the perfect mid corner setup for this ex till i die and if i do find it think i could surprise alot of people..someday i hope

please ride safe, dont hit me

I honestly can't tell if you are trolling so let me apologize in advance, but you posted a picture of a tire that is worn to the cords. This is about tire wear patterns visible in the rubber. Your picture shows a tire with no rubber left. Mod 1, replace front tire!!!

 

[okgo]

So this is the other half of the tire..just based off the article, under suspension tire wear the tire shown has a zig zag looking tear while mine compared to that is nothing. they say to adj rebound but am i on the thicker, slower rebound side or too thin??kinda confusing. ok then it says if the tear was around the whole tire= bad, whew check but wait then it says "However if it doesn't and you follow the tear around the tyre and notice that it is not a continuous tear i.e. there is an affected area, then there's a sizable area where it's clean, then there's some more damage, then it goes clean again, this is another indication that a suspension setting is out, most probably rebound or compression, or even a combination of them both." help lol

1 more thing is the size of the contact patch about right?? should i add psi or lower

thank you for your time

 

[physicistkev]

Your tire is worn well beyond being able to read rubber wear patterns. If cords are exposed on one side, then the other side is also so worn that any indicators are not conclusive of real tire wear patterns. With lots of rubber gone, the tire will spread heat differently across the tire among other things. This tire correlates to suspension setup like temperature outside correlates to whats on TV. It's worthless.

The thing about "reading" tires is that the information is only good if you are completely consistent on every lap, the tire is essentially brand new and has been through exactly one heat cycle. To say that you can "read" a tire means that the tire has been exposed to just one situation. For example, if I do a lap at Barber and then a lap VIR, then looking at my tire is pointless. The track surfaces are vastly different, not to mention the track smoothness, temperature, humidity, tire age, how fast my lap is (am I tired, bored, aggressive...)..... and so on. IF you go into one corner a little hotter and brake more, then the tire pattern will be different than if you took the corner consistently. Your tire reading is now completely worthless if this is the case.

My suggestion is, don't read tires. Ask people who know suspensions to help you get setup correctly. The feel of the bike is far more telling on what the current state of the suspension in.

 

[Otto Man]

okgo;293041 wrote: So this is the other half of the tire..just based off the article, under suspension tire wear the tire shown has a zig zag looking tear while mine compared to that is nothing. they say to adj rebound but am i on the thicker, slower rebound side or too thin??kinda confusing. ok then it says if the tear was around the whole tire= bad, whew check but wait then it says "However if it doesn't and you follow the tear around the tyre and notice that it is not a continuous tear i.e. there is an affected area, then there's a sizable area where it's clean, then there's some more damage, then it goes clean again, this is another indication that a suspension setting is out, most probably rebound or compression, or even a combination of them both." help lol

1 more thing is the size of the contact patch about right?? should i add psi or lower

thank you for your time

The only thing to read from that tire is that it's beyond shot and needs replaced.

 

[okgo]

First when you say only one heat cycle does this apply to any tire/compound or does this only hold true for race or track oriented rubber??

They were set around 31 HOT the entire time i had them but is this consistent enough to deem it readable?

thanks again

 

[JRA]

Forget about "reading" tire wear patterns. Set your bike up to handle properly front and rear, and then select the proper compound tire to sit the track and temperature.

 

[D-Zum]

okgo;292218 wrote: Is this an example of too much weight on the front ?? should be a pic

It's an example of a tire with way too many street miles on it. It's shot, dangerous and desperately needs to be replaced.

And street riding's not really all that applicable to what's being talked about here. Riding public roads versus closed course environments (Track Days & Racing) have extremely different levels of intensity, thus extremely different levels of stress on equipment, like tires.