Training Schools

dc aka lowside

New Member
What is the best school to prepare me to race? I am currently looking at Keith Code, expensive, but he has different bikes setup for things like sliding, leaning, panic-braking, etc. and I can't find these in other schools. If you know of another school of equal or greater caliber please let me know, this is a huge investment that I think will definitely be worth every penny!!
 

JRA

New Member
There are lots of differing opinions on schools. Your best skill preparation for racing is going to come from track time...lots of it. Of the schools I have taken I would say the biggest benefit to me is that I gained track specific knowledge. I learned how to go fast much faster on those tracks than others that I have learned on my own. Another benefit will be that instructors can point out to you the things you are doing right, and maybe help you correct the things you are doing wrong before they become a bad habit. If the school is race specific you will learn things about racing procedure in addition to skill development.

My opinion (especially given your location) would be to take the Cornerspeed school, and then do lots of track days with NESBA. I say that with all seriousness. You can get your license and training with Cornerspeed, and then use NESBA to hone your skills until you feel like you are ready to race. If you can work you way into the NESBA advanced group you will not only be prepared to race, but most likely you'll do very well.

Good luck!
 

lemondrop

Professional Asphalt Surfer
I have heard good things from Keith Code. Nick Ienatsch is working with yamaha. Can get on the wait list for the spring event. Just post up on VAsportbike.

I did my frist event ever with Penguin Racing School. I was a beginner and looking back, I think I get more out of NESBA than I did with Penguin, but ya do get a race license out of it.
 

geckert

New Member
Here are my thoughts/plans on getting ready to race. After doing 10 trackdays this year ( my first year) and being in I group for 6 of them I think I can handle a race. I am going to hit up a WERA event in March or April and do WERA's race school and enter a race that same weekend. I dont think there is a need to spend big$$ on a school when you can do wera's for free(im pretty sure its free). I also think getting onto the grid and actually racing will teach you more about
sliding, leaning, panic-braking, etc.
than a school, even a trackday with a good CR will help you with those things. But it would also be unwise to jump in with No knowledge of how things work; read the rules, (several times), prep the bike and go race.
If I had 2k for a high class race school I would probably spend it on 20 TD's instead...:dunno:
 

dc aka lowside

New Member
Interesting points guys. Putting $2000 into like 12 or 13 trackdays sounds very nice. As far as racing, I didn't mean to prep me to go race the same weekend, I meant to show me some advanced techniques like trail braking, drifting the back end around tight corners for faster exits, etc. I really got think about where to spend this money wisely and what is most beneficial. I don't want to race until my lap times are competitive with current racers and by that time I should already be in advanced group as well.
 

jimmeigs

New Member
Go to the best there is available: Yamaha Champions run by Nick Ienatsch.

http://www.millermotorsportspark.com/learn/motorcycle-school/


Or to quote one of the fastest guys I know (Ron Hix) from an earlier thread on this subject:

Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxercurt
but for 2g or even 1750 if it was me i would spend it on trackdays or better parts.

speed=comfort/confidence=seat time


i can't see it being worth the money, there is only so much you can cram in you head in two days.


Ron's reply-


NO TRAINING + LOTS OF TRACK TIME = PERFECTED MISTAKES + SEVERELY INGRAINED BAD HABITS


I'm just sayin...

__________________

Ron Hix
http://http://hixracing.com/
CR #975
 

Wink

New Member
Best thing that I have ever done was go to get training from Nick Ienatsch. Period.

Learn what you need to learn, NO MATTER your level, and go to NESBA, practice and perfect. It isn't one or the other. You need BOTH.

Even top riders still go back to get tune-ups from Nick. you can;t find a better track to ride, or a better coaching staff IMHO.

On track exercises, instant feedback every lap, not every session. Video coaching, and classroom teaching and review. Remember, NESBA is a Track Day Organization, NOT a school.

You wanna learn to play the piano, get a great instructor, pay attention, take notes, get homework, go practice. I try to go see Nick every year, and he gives me enough at whatever my riding level to practice the entire year.

Rinse, and repeat the following year. Remember, you have to practice to get good at something. So, with Nick's foundation, and NESBA days for the season, I strongly feel you will see the fastest growth.
 

arhale09

New Member
dc aka lowside;94427 wrote: Interesting points guys. Putting $2000 into like 12 or 13 trackdays sounds very nice. As far as racing, I didn't mean to prep me to go race the same weekend, I meant to show me some advanced techniques like trail braking, drifting the back end around tight corners for faster exits, etc. I really got think about where to spend this money wisely and what is most beneficial. I don't want to race until my lap times are competitive with current racers and by that time I should already be in advanced group as well.
I could be wrong (and somebody please correct me if I am) but I don't think there is a school in the country that is gonna teach you how to back it into a corner, spin up the rear or push the front. All that stuff is a result of speed, not a cause of it. But again, I could be wrong...
 

dc aka lowside

New Member
arhale09;94450 wrote: I could be wrong (and somebody please correct me if I am) but I don't think there is a school in the country that is gonna teach you how to back it into a corner, spin up the rear or push the front. All that stuff is a result of speed, not a cause of it. But again, I could be wrong...
Can others confirm this? I was watching Rossi's 10 ways to be like Rossi video on On The Throttle website and it didn't appear that he was going that fast into the hairpin, but he lighlty tapped on the rear brake enough to slide the rear out to where it was in line for his exit, so is it truly a result of speed or a skill that you learn for the really tight corners?
 

Perlzuki

New Member
Lowside, Everyone has great ideas in regards to learning how to ride & race. I feel track days with CR help & tires will be your best investment when first starting out. Then a quality race school will help you hone your skill set! What you are talking about in your last 2 posts will most likelly get you to start into a LOWSIDE that will result in a HIGHSIDE! You have to learn how to walk before you run the Boston marathon! Just my opinion.

Mark
SE CR #249
06 GSXR 1000
 

dc aka lowside

New Member
Perlzuki;94457 wrote: Lowside, Everyone has great ideas in regards to learning how to ride & race. I feel track days with CR help & tires will be your best investment when first starting out. Then a quality race school will help you hone your skill set! What you are talking about in your last 2 posts will most likelly get you to start into a LOWSIDE that will result in a HIGHSIDE! You have to learn how to walk before you run the Boston marathon! Just my opinion.

Mark
SE CR #249
06 GSXR 1000
Mark you are correct about the advanced techniques that I want to learn turning really bad on a trackday but at a school like Keith Code's he has special built machines that allow you to learn these techniques without worrying about crashing. I have learned how to walk for the most part of course I can use more corner entry speed but it will come with more track days but I want to learn these so that I can practice throughout next season.
 

Meat

Member
dc aka lowside;94497 wrote: Keith Code's he has special built machines that allow you to learn these techniques without worrying about crashing.
In my experience with Keith Code's level 1 through 4 schools is that the special bikes like the slide bike (same as lean bike) are just a side show and not really much of a utilized tool. Some people have gotten a lot out of the Code schools; I was not nearly as happy.

I would take Nick's school. I liked the Freddie Spencer School for which Nick was the lead instructor.

I only took the Keith Code's Level 3 and 4 schools because they were local but I found them a waste of time as I had a poor on track instructor for both level 3 and 4. But, like I said, some others have like he Code schools.
 

Trent1098S

New Member
Having the bike move around under you is something that'll happen on it's own as you get more seat time. For me, the first couple of times resulted in me and the bike separating! Nothing like a trip to the ER to raise questions in your head like "WTF am I doing this for?" Big confidence shaker.

All this year I've been adding in speed, deepening brake points, trailbraking, and standing up / getting on the gas earlier - but I've been creeping up to this stuff SLOWLY and INCREMENTALLY.

Everyone learns at a different pace, and everyone adapts to speed differently, has different reflexes, etc. But one thing is for sure, if you listen, ask questions, watch, and practice, you'll go faster as you get used to doing things at a faster pace. Muscle memory plays a big role in this, but I agree that you need to get taught "right" early to avoid having to make hard changes later when bad habits get integrated in to what becomes your "cornering routine."

Listen to your CR's, ask lots of questions, implement what they tell you to. Don't rush in to trailbraking or backing it in just because you see {insert favorite racing icon} doing it on TV. Eventually some of it will come to you, but you have to first learn to be patient and smooth to go fast.

(I say some of it because like anything else, there are "naturals" at this who just "get it", while the rest of us mere mortals have to work our asses off to get there.)

Remember to enjoy yourself and not get overly frustrated trying to push things because that's when you WILL get in deep trouble and get yourself hurt. I absolutely guarantee it - "been there done that"!
 

dc aka lowside

New Member
Interesting post Trent. So have you taken a riding school before? So as you learned and became faster this year the trailbraking came natural to you? Maybe I just need to work on my overall smoothness which will result in more speed and maybe I'll just learn how to back it in when I get my speed up to where it's needed? I know the CRs can help me with this and they do a good job from what I've heard from other members.
 

barry38

Member
I don't get your fascination with "backing it in". I've done over 100 events now, and have seen maybe 3 people do it. I've watched some wicked fast guys get around alot of different tracks without doing it. I'll admit it does look cool as hell, but it's completely un-needed to go fast.

As a side note, I'm with the rest of of these guys. I did the Freddie School a few years, and I feel Nick Ienatch is one of the premier instructors of high performance motorcycle riding in the country.
 

arhale09

New Member
I would tend to think that the fastest guys are not only NOT backing it in, but in fact are pushing the front all the way to the apex, but I don't know. It would seem like covering your line in a race would be a lot harder if you are constantly worried about swinging your back end around....
 

dc aka lowside

New Member
Very good point Arhale. I think that is the reason why you don't back it in every corner, their good for hairpins setting the bike up for a faster exit because the back end is lined up quicker. Barry, backing it in is not my primary focus for next year, it's just one technique I want to learn and practice with all of my track time. I'm thinking that I need not to pay for an expensive school and instead buy some nice grippy tires and lots of track days and pick one CR to work with, because from my previous track experience each CR has different views and things to advice you about which may get confusing.
 

Trent1098S

New Member
dc aka lowside;94551 wrote: Interesting post Trent. So have you taken a riding school before? So as you learned and became faster this year the trailbraking came natural to you? Maybe I just need to work on my overall smoothness which will result in more speed and maybe I'll just learn how to back it in when I get my speed up to where it's needed? I know the CRs can help me with this and they do a good job from what I've heard from other members.
No, I haven't taken a riding school. Next year, if funds permit, I'll do the Yamaha school of Champions. But that's taking a lower priority than race entry fees, tires, gas, etc.. :)

Trailbraking will happen naturally as you push your brake markers further back. Beginners come down a straight, hit the brakes hard, release the brakes, and then turn in and corner. As you progress as a rider you'll learn to be very progressive applying and releasing the front brake. Naturally you will begin to brake while you turn in, in order to keep the front "planted." Tracks like Barber bring it to a whole new level. You're forced by the track layout to brake while leaned over with fast declining radius turns.

If you do all of your braking "straight up and down", releasing the front brake before you turn in, your front will unload before you turn in. This is quite forceful due to the springs and g forces involved. Although this effect is dampened by your forks rebound somewhat (as well as your rear compression), if the front unloads enough at the moment you are turning in, you WILL lowside because you have no friction between your tire and the track, and a very small contact patch on the front tire.

The best method is to gradually release the brakes VERY smoothly from the time you begin turning in until you are at the apex, then you crack neutral throttle and start feeding throttle back in. It's a progression from 95% braking to 0% braking as you increase lean angle. And it's very much a "feeling" thing.

You MUST have good body position by the time you start doing this, and you must use your lower body as much as possible, or your arms will be too tight holding your weight from braking. As Marshall Skloss put it to me, "you can't type on a keyboard while your'e doing pushups."

Basically the majority of your "riding habits" have to come in to place and be working right before you really start pushing it in the corners. Your body position, relaxation, and "smoothness" must really click before you "ramp it up a notch."

Otherwise you're setting yourself up for disaster.

I don't see much of a point to "backing it in", personally. My rear wheel is already skipping across the ground when I brake hard, I don't want it sliding out on me when 100% of the load is on the front and there's zero traction available to the rear. Touching the rear brake slightly to induce a rear end slide sounds like a quick way to get an ambulance ride to me. :)

Just remember we're not on dirt, we're on asphault (or polymer in some cases) riding with the best rubber compounds that mankind has ever known. There's a tremendous amount of traction waiting to bite you if you misjudge the rear wheel slide or throttle control even a tiny bit.

Then again.. there's a lot of stuff you see that may or may not matter, like Rossi's "hanging leg" crap. He was fast before he started doing it, and it hasn't made him noticeablly faster since.. so what's the point? I think it's more of a superstition thing.
 

dc aka lowside

New Member
Trent that is good information. Take a look at my avatar and let me know what you think of my body position. You have given me something that will take all of next year to practice and get better at with track time.
 
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