Trouble finishing the corner, and GP shift.

madriders86

madriders86

New Member
So last monday at VIR I frequently found that I was running out of gear when exiting a corner or even mid corner on some of the longer ones. Does this mean I simply need to go into the corner a gear higher? :notsure:

I think this has convinced me to make the switch to GP shift.
 
J

Justin_H

New Member
Since we're not racing out there I wouldn't want to change sprockets for every track. I'd go in gear higher and see how it feels.

Justin
 
madriders86

madriders86

New Member
i think i'll give that a try.

Lonewrench;182795 wrote: What bike and current gearing?
Click to expand...

sv650. not sure on gearing, not too worried about it either because i don't feel it's a setup issue yano?
 
D-Zum

D-Zum

My 13 year old is faster than your President
I don't know Man...gearing has been a remarkable change on all my GSXRs.

-1f/+2r was a VERY good starting point on those bikes.

Looks like 15f/45r with a 110 link 525 chain is the stock ratios according to Vortex's site.

https://www.vortexracing.com/shop/sprocket/111/

I'd think a 14f would be a little too small for comfort..see if your rear is able to go maybe to 47.

On my GSXR600, with stock gears 2nd gear I only had about 4K rpm's to go to redline...spinning way too high and had no room to "finish the corner" as you say...third gear was just bogging the engine. I changed to the -1/+2 combination installed I was in 3rd gear in T1 right where I wanted to be in rpm's at about 7K just where the power comes on..and had about another 7K rpms to roll on the throttle and get a really nice drive from the apex.


Just trying to help.

Oh..and give GP shift a try...You'll probably screw up a few times, but end up loving it. Coming out of corners you don't have to work to wiggle your foot to find you're under the lever...you just push down and it's there. Besides that, it's a more positive engagement because your foot's push muscles are much stronger (calf) than your pull (shin/tendons).
 
snikwad

snikwad

New Member
GP shift does make it a lil easier, as dude said, no need to move the foot under, just click, but youd better be smooth or the interuption may make for some nervous twitchy cornering.
Just go into the corner with a higher gear and let the torque pull you through, if you do that what you may find is you end up carrying more corner speed anyway, somethign about the lower revs making for a smoother more tractable turning and the lower revs playing some mental trick on you making you think youre going slower.
 
dbakerpa

dbakerpa

Member
15F 45R seems to be good gearing for the SV at VIR. You would probably go in a gear low if you arent getting the drive you want out of the corner.
What corners were you having a problem with ?

By the way - on the SV you will find yourself going in higher and short shifting as you pull off the corners. If you are smooth the bike stays glued nicely.
I would much rather run in closer to 10000 and get a good drive coming off the apex. GP shif makes that easier; especially on right hand turns like the hog pen and turn 2
 
stow

stow

New Member
Lonewrench;182795 wrote: What bike and current gearing?
madriders86;182813 wrote: sv650. not sure on gearing, not too worried about it either because i don't feel it's a setup issue yano?
Click to expand...
Not sure, but I think I would listen to the guy that has more race/mechanic/setup experience than anyone on this board. Chuck knows what he is talking about. Westby was a bad man on an SV650, and I hear Chuck is pretty familiar with Westby.
 
madriders86

madriders86

New Member
lol I'm no westby,,,

Sorry if I came off as obnoxious, but I don't know the guy and have no idea what kind of experience he has. From where I'm sitting it just read like somebody trying to sell me parts when I was asking a question about my technique. I'm not saying that's what it was, and I'm interested in hearing any and all advice. Knee jerk reaction I guess :p
 
Bubba Zanetti

Bubba Zanetti

Member
Hey Mad:

I'd seriously consider studying gearing. Recently my good friend and 2T mentor explained the importance of gearing to me. The short version is "The faster you get on the 125, the more you will change gearing". I under estimated this but in the end it makes sence. Our bikes share something in common, their strengh is cornerspeed. It is the only way we get around the track and pass more powerful bikes, which lets face it, everybody else pretty much has higher HP bikes than we do. So as the track season progresses I'll probably be buying different rear sprockets.

Sniff around the WERA forum and see if anyone talks SV gearing, ask other SV riders and Lonewrench would probably help too as he posted a legit question to you.

BZ
 
Landshark

Landshark

Control Rider
Once you settle on a front sprocket just changing the rear sprocket isn't a big deal. I found that even a two tooth change can have significant impact. Typically I found that if my chain was long enough to accommodate the smaller sprocket while giving the longest wheel base. I could also fit the large +2 without a chain change. This would shorten the wheel base.
Typically a longer wheel base is desirable on higher speed more open tracks. There is always an argument to be made about setup geometry but on that SV I don't think wheelbase issue is as noticeable as the gearing.
 
madriders86

madriders86

New Member
bronsonj;183219 wrote: the problem w/ gp shift on an sv650 is that you can bust the engine case if you crash on the left side.

http://www.twfracing.com/vbforums/showthread.php?t=794

Good info, thanks...looks like there is a fix.

Bubba Zanetti;183284 wrote: Hey Mad:

I'd seriously consider studying gearing. Recently my good friend and 2T mentor explained the importance of gearing to me. The short version is "The faster you get on the 125, the more you will change gearing". I under estimated this but in the end it makes sence. Our bikes share something in common, their strengh is cornerspeed. It is the only way we get around the track and pass more powerful bikes, which lets face it, everybody else pretty much has higher HP bikes than we do. So as the track season progresses I'll probably be buying different rear sprockets.

Sniff around the WERA forum and see if anyone talks SV gearing, ask other SV riders and Lonewrench would probably help too as he posted a legit question to you.

BZ
Click to expand...
How practical/easy is it to keep a 125 or 250 2 stroke running for trackday use? I've always been interested in riding them but the SV was easier...I just keep up on the basic maintenance and add zipties to keep the fairings from falling off and ride it ;)

As for the gearing issue, I understand that it will be necessary to learn and apply that stuff at some point or another; however suppose I go into a corner and find that 2nd gear is too short and I run out of revs, but 3rd gear leaves the motor struggling to tractor through the rest of the corner, if that makes any sense....isnt the real solution more cornerspeed so that I can take the corner in 3rd with more revs? It also seems like a 125 2t would be far more sensitive to gearing changes than an SV due to the engine characteristics, but I could be wrong.

I'm just trying to keep it simple guys :)

Landshark;183293 wrote: Once you settle on a front sprocket just changing the rear sprocket isn't a big deal. I found that even a two tooth change can have significant impact. Typically I found that if my chain was long enough to accommodate the smaller sprocket while giving the longest wheel base. I could also fit the large +2 without a chain change. This would shorten the wheel base.
Typically a longer wheel base is desirable on higher speed more open tracks. There is always an argument to be made about setup geometry but on that SV I don't think wheelbase issue is as noticeable as the gearing.
Click to expand...
Weeell as long as you guys are assuming I'm doing everything possible right :D

Next time I'm around the bike I'll count teeth. I have an extra set of wheels and everything. Can't remember if I have another sprocket carrier...
 
U

unclepaulie

New Member
Mad, it all depends what you are looking to do, but if you are out there just doing trackdays and trying to enjoy yourself, I wouldn't worry about gearing. My opinion is all the gearing changes for different tracks and what not is a pita and nothing I want to do. I wanna go ride and improve my skill as a rider. If your racing or just like pushing yourself for laptimes then that's up to you and there's plenty of people who will help, but I would just run it a gear higher, learn to carry the speed and roll on that throttle :)
It looks like you run in I class, and I know you probably have heard this before but at our level, it's best to spend your money on tires and tracktime to better the rider. It's all about the rider. For example, last weekend at putnam I CR'd for my club over the weekend there and we hold races at lunch and at the end of the day. The 2 guys who took 1st and 2nd in the Amateur lightweight GT ran slower than me. They were on superbike motors puting out 82HP, gixxer front ends with ohlins internals, penske shocks and race tires. I'm on my 1st gen SV stock motor puting out 67HP(maybe), stock gearing (stock pipe, haha) penske shock and springs emulators and oil in the stock forks on dunlop Q2's with superbike bars on and I was running a quicker pace than the both of them. Even ran faster than the one SV expert that was there that weekend. Not trying to toot my own horn, my point is it's all rider most of the time until you get to a certain level.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do!!
 
Bubba Zanetti

Bubba Zanetti

Member
madriders86;183431 wrote: Good info, thanks...looks like there is a fix.



How practical/easy is it to keep a 125 or 250 2 stroke running for trackday use? I've always been interested in riding them but the SV was easier...I just keep up on the basic maintenance and add zipties to keep the fairings from falling off and ride it ;)

As for the gearing issue, I understand that it will be necessary to learn and apply that stuff at some point or another; however suppose I go into a corner and find that 2nd gear is too short and I run out of revs, but 3rd gear leaves the motor struggling to tractor through the rest of the corner, if that makes any sense....isnt the real solution more cornerspeed so that I can take the corner in 3rd with more revs? It also seems like a 125 2t would be far more sensitive to gearing changes than an SV due to the engine characteristics, but I could be wrong.

I'm just trying to keep it simple guys :)



Weeell as long as you guys are assuming I'm doing everything possible right :D

Next time I'm around the bike I'll count teeth. I have an extra set of wheels and everything. Can't remember if I have another sprocket carrier...
Click to expand...
Well Mad, I am a newbie still with 2T’s but I can tell you what I know.

I’ve only been on the 125 once before my season was over last year. So all winter I’ve been reading, learning, being mentored and working (or watching the 125 be worked on by my mentor) on the 125. The long and the short is these bikes are going for very cheap right now with some killer deals. If you are serious about getting one try for a 2T that comes with a bunch of ‘spares’. Now is the time to get one if you have always wanted one. As far as cost…it can be done very reasonable if you get a 125, especially on a TZ. A Honda is really expensive due to Honda jacking up their prices, but a few companies make aftermarket goodies, but they are really expensive too LOL! But there are way more Honda RS125’s than TZ’s so that can be a benefit. Also, the 2T’s run race gas so that is an added cost. Although I just saw a TZ250 sell for a little over 3,000 (which is a steal) they can be very expensive to run. Just think double cost on everything. I don’t know your financial situation so you would need to decide on what bike.

You have to be willing to work on the bike. There is no way around it, but if you can keep your SV then on your ‘lazy’ days just take it instead. As far as riding one, with my limited experience, it is the most fun I’ve had and it is the hardest bike I’ve tried to ride too. If you would like to talk in more detail please PM me and I’ll give my number and I can go over details and costs a bit easier.

In short, it can be fairly easy and practical to run a 2T, it boils down to the owner of the machine and their mentality.

BZ
 
dlockhart5x

dlockhart5x

New Member
On a GP bike where you have plenty of clearance and grip, lean angle can be used to control the final gear ratio.
On some corners I am pulling the bike down and moving to the highside in the corner to keep the motor on the pipe.

At our level mostly it is just a matter of riding faster.

When you are truely dialed, and there is still a issue, internal gearing can be changed to get the perfect spacing.
 
dbakerpa

dbakerpa

Member
If you arent concerned about contingency the sprocket center has the best prices on the web. http://www.sprocketcenter.com/c/16223/1/sv-650-ssfabs-99-09.html

If you go 15 45 or 15 46 your gearing will work out for about any track as a begginer.
You wont need a second carrier. The sprockets are easy to change out. You can change out tires and the carrier will just pop into your other rims - if you have carrier bushings in both rears.

If you have a couple of sprockets to play with it will give you an idea of ratio changes. As for the rest you will get the feel. Zoran is
very much smart so it doesnt hurt to kick around the TWF forum.

Good luck and have fun. I cant imagine a bike that is more fun than the SV. It corners better than everything but a Moriwaki. There is perverse pleasure in passing a bike on the corner with 100 more horsepower that cost 6000 bucks more. Seeing him power by you on the straight and then doing it al over again. LOL
 
dbakerpa

dbakerpa

Member
Bubba Zanetti;183517 wrote: A Moriwaki!?!? What about its 2T partners? LOL! Where do you think the Moriwaki came from?

BZ
Click to expand...
LOL I did that on purpose to see if you would crack. I was waiting for a couple of others to join you. OF course your right and I am evil to try and incite riots. :haha:

Dlockhart ?
 
Bubba Zanetti

Bubba Zanetti

Member
Damn right a riot is gonna start! :p

You come to NJMP we are going to back up the smokers and clean out the pipes by your pit for such statements LOL!

BZ
 
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