Un-official off-season skills enhancement video thread

barry38

Member
Bubba Zanetti;163277 wrote: I will say one thing I did on Summit-Main was stay to the left on the big straight to be courteous to my fellow B groupers. But I have wondered if I should change my front straight bike position? But that almost doesn’t make sense as I stay on the race line on the straight as instructed. Thoughts?


BZ
No matter what bike you are on, no matter how fast you are, you always, always, always stay on the race line. This makes your actions predictable to other riders.

Example: Summit Main's front straight leads to a right turn. The proper line down the straight is the left side of the rack, within a couple feet of the left edge. Overtaking riders will see you there and pass you on the right. Lets say you choose the center or right side of the track. Overtaking riders will see you there and have to make a decision on which side to pass you, left or right. Sooner or later you'll want to move left to optimize your line into Turn 1. So if you start moving left while someone in passing you on the left, there is great potential for you to get ass packed.

Always stay on line. It's the rider who is doing the passing to make sure it's done properly (safely), you being on line will only make it easier in the long run.

BTW - How's the new baby and Mom doing????????
 
Well thats what I thought Barry and a fellow B grouper, through PM conversation, stated to me that I was predictable when he was following me or passing and I stayed to the left on the straight at Summit-Main.

Back to turn 10 for a moment. There were times when people would pass me after tunn 9 and as we came into 10 they would jam on the brakes when it wasn't needed. Now I know this all part of being in B group so I'm not complaining about the passing rules or anything, I'm just looking for some strategy in passing fellow riders who do this. Turn 10 is again interesting to me because even if I came through it topped out on the 125 (120mph that way it's geared) that straight is long enough a 1000 could get back by me. Its not the being passed that I am concerned about, somebody will always pass its the nature of riding with faster riders. I'm just trying again to get some strategy.

I'm having ahard time communicating my query:argh:

Jen and little man are doing well; except he may have a food allergy, not sure yet. Been meaning to call but sleep depravation hasn't made me the most interesting person lately LOL!

BZ
 

Mikey75702

Member
I was one of the riders talking to him about the trip to summit. He was doing great there especially for his first day on the 125. He was way left on the straights, did good in the corners. I could predict his speed through the corners and didn't have to use excessive brakes. I can only imagine his frustration with the people parking it. That weekend was pretty bad.1,3,4,&10 were all areas others seemed to like to stop. I wouldnt mind seeing some strategy like bubba is asking for. Sometimes people have enough power to get just out of range on the brakes but will hold you up through the corners like the back section of summit.
 

Mikey75702

Member
No problem. just figured I would chime in. Hopefully it gives people an idea on why you were asking. Normally after a couple of straight aways I am able to pass, worst case I just back off and get a good run out of the last corner and hit my max speed faster then the person I'm passing, but some tracks would be hell on a bike with 120 mph top speed. I know I am around 160 mph on the front straight at main, and that weekend there were multiple people that were slowing to less then 40 mph for turn 1.
 
Due to its top speed limitations (although I can gear it to go faster) Summit-Main, NJMP T-bolt and Lightning are the biggest tracks I'd take the 125 to anyway. No way would I try VIR Full LOL!

BZ
 

jfeagin

New Member
Man, I sure do know what you mean about Summit T1!! I always wind up stuck behind someone wanting to go through there about 35mph. I know because that's slow enough to glance at the speedo without missing anything. :doh:

My strategy there is to let a group get past me between T9 and T10, then run through T10 with just a little roll-off on the throttle. I'm too skeered to go over 135mph on the straight (top speed according to the trip computer on my bike). Or maybe too fat. Hard to say, really...

But anyway, I usually manage to get to T1 able to run my own speed through it that way. Not really sure, but I think I've managed around 60mph in T1 a few times. Hoping to do better next season.
 

Jiggy

Control Rider
This is a pretty good series. Here is a link to Part 1, you can click Part 2 and Part 3 in the related links section. Lots of good information that pertains to us mortals when Ben speaks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amImg7O0424

What I took away from this that still stands in my mind since I watched it for the first time a year ago......listen to what he says about lap times. My iteration of what he said: Assuming that you have familarized yourself with given "X" track. No one ever makes up 10seconds breaking into one corner. As much as you would like one corner to be "THE" corner that you can make up for all the mistakes you have just made the previous 5 turns, its very very very unlikely. A small fraction of a second quicker on the throttle at apex or a small fraction of a second less on the brakes subtracts 10-30ms total time to complete a turn . If there are 14 turns at 'X' Motorsports Park, you do the math. Take small bites, and chew.

Carry on.....
 
Jiggy;163796 wrote: This is a pretty good series. Here is a link to Part 1, you can click Part 2 and Part 3 in the related links section. Lots of good information that pertains to us mortals when Ben speaks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amImg7O0424

What I took away from this that still stands in my mind since I watched it for the first time a year ago......listen to what he says about lap times. My iteration of what he said: Assuming that you have familarized yourself with given "X" track. No one ever makes up 10seconds breaking into one corner. As much as you would like one corner to be "THE" corner that you can make up for all the mistakes you have just made the previous 5 turns, its very very very unlikely. A small fraction of a second quicker on the throttle at apex or a small fraction of a second less on the brakes subtracts 10-30ms total time to complete a turn . If there are 14 turns at 'X' Motorsports Park, you do the math. Take small bites, and chew.

Carry on.....

Tasty advice Jiggy.

But its easy to get wrapped up in the moment and try and "make up time" on certain section of X track. I think I can speak for us all, no matter the riding level, we all have our own corners or sections of a track that we are confident in for whatever reason. Its easy and obviously detrimental in the end to try and exploit that strenght than focus on the weaknesses that need addressed for a truly consistant and smooth lap.

Good vid.

BZ
 

dand

New Member
Hey Zanneti,
I saw your post and thought I'd throw in some ideas.
Keep in mind that you can brake really late on the 125. Like really late... as late as you think physically possible then you can still brake 10 ft later. If someone comes by you on the middle of the straight, yeah, he's going by you. But if he's coming by late on the straight, you might be able to pass him right back. Just keep it pinned, when he starts braking you just keep it pinned til your brake marker and make a decision about whether you can get by him safely before turn-in.
Also, 600s and 1000 punch a big hole in the air on the straights, if it's safe, try to get behind them. It's kinda fun, you get a free tow, to higher top speeds. Tuck in as best as you can too, and stay tucked until you're braking. i have to practice this too; and late braking...
you're doing great man, there's lots to learn and you're on the right bike for learning.
Dan
 
Hey Dan!

You can draft a 125!? LOL! I had no idea. Thanks for the tips. I know the brakes are pretty amazing on the TZ. Fisrt time down the straight with any speed and I braked way to early and felt like I was going to stop on the track.

Thanks for answering my query. Its basically a beat them on the brakes is the answer.

I've struggled with braking ever since I stated doing track days. But something barry38 said is starting to make sence. Like the throttle, you never roll on and off with aggression. Brakes shoudn't be stabbed but like the throttle "dialed on and off". I finally started to do that at Summit, but I still sucked.

Since this is a video thread, and I can't find anything, any CR's got some video of their brake hand on the track?

BZ
 

dlockhart5x

New Member
Bubba Zanetti;163888 wrote: Hey Dan!

Thanks for answering my query. Its basically a beat them on the brakes is the answer.

BZ

You guys are on 125s
much less brakes and more gas

It takes a lot to trust the front end, get off the brakes and just turn the bike at super silly entrance speeds, but a gp bike will do it.

I believe it was Chuck Sorenson (sp?) who after a wild card 250 GP ride commented that at that "world level 250 gp " everyone gets on the brakes at the same time. The fast guys are the first ones off the brakes.

While we are a long long long ways from that level, the idea is the same
get off the brakes

and get your entrance speed up

If in a corner you see a "street bike" leaned over going the same speed, you are doing something wrong
 

blueninja1

New Member
Dear BZ,

Racing of any kind is like a delicate dance. I always picture in my mind 2 people on opposite ends of a sea saw. The goal is to stay as balanced as possible. The weight will eventually have to oscillate up and down a little as you brake and sway the bike across the track to get ready for the next set of corners, and accelerate. However, the smoother you are, the faster you will be. You have to be smooth in all inputs to get the output that you want, speed. Treat everything like it could break with the softest whisper (not literally lol but i'm sure you understand what i'm getting at). When you stab the brakes it screws the balance of the bike. It is the same as if someone just gets off the sea saw, then the other person falls down and that is not what we want. We want everything serene and balanced, feet hanging in the balance. I know it's a weird analogy but it truly is how racing is. Squeeze on the brakes and taper it off so the bike eases into the next corner. Gently get on the throttle early, rolling onto it as you transition out of the turn, it helps the wheels 'grab' better. When you jam on the throttle the wheels slip. Gently pull your body down to the ground to give the tires a little time to adjust, etc. You have to feel everything, its all about sensory perception.

Best,

brendon
 

1up5down

Control Rider
Apex apex apex!!!

The following is more from the article by Eric Wood. My words are in blue text.

Set the apex first:
Once a rider has conquered the areas of highest stress, the next priority is to establish apexes, turn points and brake points for the remainder of the track. When you are at your apex you should generally be able to both see your exit point and be aimed towards it (the correct trajectory). The strategy in each corner is centered around the apex and this should be the first reference point you seek to obtain in each corner. In a future segment we will discuss the process of analyzing a corner to decide if the priority for your efforts will be to maximize entrance speed, roll speed or exit speed.

For me hitting the "APEX" is non-negotiable when trying to run consistently fast laptimes. You ever wonder how the pros run lap after lap within 10ths of a second from each other. They set the "APEX" for every corner and then manage the race/track to ensure they can consistently hit each apex at their maximum speed. If they run wide and miss the "APEX" it will show on the lap chart or even worse the chasing rider overtakes them:doh:. To me missing the "APEX" means I left valuable currency (i.e. time) on the table. Unfortunately, I've left some currency on the table, but that will cease in 2011.

Turn point:

With the apex set, riders should next establish a turn point that brings the motorcycle to the apex at the proper trajectory. A turn point that is too early will run you wide of your exit point and one that is too late will often cause you to miss the apex. As you gain speed, this turn point is the reference that will most often be subject to change. Apex points and trajectories tend to stay relatively constant once a corner strategy is determined. However, as braking gets deeper and entrance speed improves, the turning of the motorcycle tends to need to happen earlier, more quickly, or a combination of both.

Exit Point:

Your cue for when to open the throttle is triggered by your exit point. As your turn point brings you towards the apex you should be scanning up the track for your exit point. Ideally, as soon the a major part of your turning is done you will be able to see your exit point and start rolling on the throttle again. The earlier you are able to look up and draw the line from the apex to the exit, the slower you will feel you are going and the sooner you will crack the throttle.
 

blueninja1

New Member
good stuff here. also if you are up for a read, i suggest ross bentley's speed secrets 1 and 2. He's an auto racer who explains racing line, mental preparedness, etc. Subtle differences for a motorcycle but many of the same principles can be applied.
 
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