When do you know the time to change bikes?

[Otto Man]

I've been pondering of getting a newer/different bike, and was just wondering when you guys decide to get rid of a bike, what's the factor? There's obvious ones, like wadding up your bike on the track, motor blew then parted out, etc. I'm just talking about ones that are still fine. What made you change? I hear how each brand has it's own unique features - and how would I know that I wouldn't be faster on a R6 vs a ZX6, etc etc? :dunno: I realize at the end of the day, it's mostly between the ears in regards to speed, but if someone is better mated on a certain bike, wouldn't that maximize their potential?

We can open the can of worms even further, and bring engine size into the mix - why you went to a 1000, or why you went to a 600. I'm kind of scared going to a 1000 - I'd almost feel like I'd lose all my experience from this past year being on a 600.

How did you get to where you are today?

Edit: I guess it's fair that I add mine. My '05 ZX10 I had prior to my current bike was a monster. I had never tracked it, it was super mint and clean, and I was afraid of wadding it up on the track. Plus, I wanted a 600 to get into track riding, on the advice of many people. The deal was right, and at the right time. One of the better choices I've made in life.

 

[JRA]

Stay on a 600 for as long as your ego will allow. As far as which one they are all pretty good. What sets them apart in my view is set-up knowledge and parts availability of the ones that are dominant in racing. Plus at NESBA events you have Chuck who has extensive experience in racing both brands.

 

[Fastguy]

For me it has been the issue of technology upgrads. I have a 94 gsxr 750 that has carbs. I got an 02 gixxer 750 because I wanted a fuel injected bike.

Now I want to get rid of the 02 750 in the attempt to procure at least an 06 gixxer 750, the first year the gixxer 750's came standard with the slipper clutch.

This weekend Ive been thinking that I have lost my original concept of partcipating in this hobby/sport on a shoestring budget. Do I really need a 06? No, but it would be nice to have it.

So I find myself returning to my original minimalist approach to continue to partcipate in this addiction.

 

[adotjdot]

Great question! I personally have spent the last few years at the track trying to find what bike fits me best. As anyone who knows me can attest, I probably change bikes more often than I do track days! I've gone from an FZR to a gixxer 1000 to an R6 to a gixxer 600 and now to a Ducati 749. Each bike has had it's good points and things I liked about them but it wasn't until I got the Ducati that I truly felt connected to the bike. I definitely believe that certain bikes suit certain people better. I knew I had to try out some different brands and models to find what worked best for me. On the flip side, you can take what you have and try to get it to suit you better. Change the seat pad, different rear sets, adjust clip-ons, change suspension or gearing...any of these will make the bike feel and ride different. As John suggests, get the track suspension experts to work with you on bike setup to get it to work better for you. I also agree with John that any 600 out there is more than enough bike for most riders. Unless you are pushing close to AMA times on a 6 you don't need anything bigger. Now that I have found the style of bike that suits me well I will most likely be selling the gixxer and riding twins for a while.

 

[erick1670]

I, only ridden Hondas...
my track bike was a 600RR 03 got me the fast and smooth, graduated to on that bike. But I was never conftreble on it, when I took my other bikes (929RR & RC51) to the track I always felt better, did my fastest at T-bolt with the RC... again the little bike teach me the right way to aproach the track... I bump my self down this year b/c I knew I was not able to ride much this year(me no want the pressure to keep "A" pace)... sold the bikes in sping :banghead:

I got my new bike in July, I am at the dealer going to get a 600RR but am thinking that I was never happy on it... so I got my self a 1000RR b/c I felt better on the big bike, but I ride it like a 600RR

I am happy with her, took it easy first to get to know her (from dealer to track )

I did sold my bikes b/c they were getting old, so I wanted an upgrade

 

[noobinacan]

to OP

your bike is fine, you don't need to get a liter bike, it will only set your back and the added speed will hinder progress.
If you're running sub 1:35's or even 38+ on a 600, and have learned the basics: trail braking, early WOT at lean, lines being three big ones. and you will be doing all of that to run a time like that, then sure, you can get a liter bike to learn how to ride a liter bike.
There's still a LOT of room for improvement.

you set yourself back every time you switch your bike, switch tires, make drastic changes.

I want to stay with the same bike, same tires, same suspension setup (that I know I'm happy with for those tires), same brake pads, gearing, same amount of gas. same control position and components...down to the grips.
until I feel like I have learned brakes and throttle as close to the limit as possible.

This way, every time I go out, I know what to expect.
I don't have any talent, so the above helps. my 2 cents...


Liter bike's just a different steed; more physically demanding, harder on tires, drinks more gas and needs heavier balls

 

[Otto Man]

JRA;260621 wrote: Stay on a 600 for as long as your ego will allow. As far as which one they are all pretty good. What sets them apart in my view is set-up knowledge and parts availability of the ones that are dominant in racing. Plus at NESBA events you have Chuck who has extensive experience in racing both brands.

Believe it or not, the ego thing is actually backwards for me. I realize it's only a track day, but I feel like I'm doing great every time I pass a guy on a 1000 with my 600, knowing full well it wasn't my power (dis)advantage that led me to pass him. The only thing I miss about a 1000 is every time I see someone having a little hooligan fun with theirs on the track - wheeling down the hill before the last turn at Road Atlanta, being able to crack a power wheelie at will coming out of a turn, and of course, the flat out amazing acceleration. It'd actually bruise my ego more having a CR work his way around me while I'm on a 1000 and he's on a 600. I realize it's his skill set that allows him to do it, but I'd feel as if I have the upper hand in the speed department (A handi-cap, you might say), and I still can't out run him. I don't feel nearly as bad riding the same sized bike he does. And for those CR's on a 1000, well, I tell myself it's the 400cc advantage for why they blew past me. Makes me feel better anyways. LOL

You raise a real valid point nooninacan, but I think that's for guys with any sort of talent. I probably won't ride my bike more than 2 miles in the next 3 months, so for the upcoming season, my first weekend is going to feel like I'm back at square one again, so I don't think transitioning to a new bike over the winter is going to hinder my slow pace any slower.

 

[moto1320]

I swapped bikes when I found a good deal on a dedicated track bike and the fear of sending a "clean bike" skipping down the track was distracting me too much. I was extremely comfortable on my Honda and it had nice kit on it, but went faster on the stock R6 I bought within 3 sessions. So, I know what you mean about the nagging feeling of "maybe there's a better bike for me". I rode Honda my whole life and didn't expect that. I asked the same question on here and went with the advice to buy a bike with a lot of local support behind it. For our area, Performance Cycleworks, and what's in the paddock, that's Suzuki and Yamaha.

From here on out, selling and buying track bikes will be for the reasons I buy and sell everything. Get in it for a good price and sell it before it's too far gone to move. If your happy with your bike that's the only good reason unless you have cash to burn. I'll try to stick with the same bike but newer as well to try to curb some of the effects Noobinican was talking about as well. I'm faster on the R6 but still not more comfortable than what I was used to. The muscle memory is slow to change in my experience.

 

[JRA]

Otto Man;260632 wrote: Believe it or not, the ego thing is actually backwards for me. I realize it's only a track day, but I feel like I'm doing great every time I pass a guy on a 1000 with my 600, knowing full well it wasn't my power (dis)advantage that led me to pass him. The only thing I miss about a 1000 is every time I see someone having a little hooligan fun with theirs on the track - wheeling down the hill before the last turn at Road Atlanta, being able to crack a power wheelie at will coming out of a turn, and of course, the flat out amazing acceleration. It'd actually bruise my ego more having a CR work his way around me while I'm on a 1000 and he's on a 600. I realize it's his skill set that allows him to do it, but I'd feel as if I have the upper hand in the speed department (A handi-cap, you might say), and I still can't out run him. I don't feel nearly as bad riding the same sized bike he does. And for those CR's on a 1000, well, I tell myself it's the 400cc advantage for why they blew past me. Makes me feel better anyways. LOL

You raise a real valid point nooninacan, but I think that's for guys with any sort of talent. I probably won't ride my bike more than 2 miles in the next 3 months, so for the upcoming season, my first weekend is going to feel like I'm back at square one again, so I don't think transitioning to a new bike over the winter is going to hinder my slow pace any slower.
I guess it just depends on what your goals are. If the goal is to become an expert level rider then the best way to accomplish that is on a 600. Not to say you can't do it on a 1000 but the for many reasons the 600 gives you the best shot at it.

I want to stay with the same bike, same tires, same suspension setup (that I know I'm happy with for those tires), same brake pads, gearing, same amount of gas. same control position and components...down to the grips.
until I feel like I have learned brakes and throttle as close to the limit as possible.

Excellent advice Aman!:agree:

I asked the same question on here and went with the advice to buy a bike with a lot of local support behind it. For our area, Performance Cycleworks, and what's in the paddock, that's Suzuki and Yamaha.

Again, excellent advice. Nothing wrong with the other brands but support is key in my opinion.

Besides being harder on tires, gas, etc., I'll throw this out there too. There is plenty of risk in this sport. A liter bike should be treated with a lot of respect, and the decision to choose that over a less powerful motorcycle should be taken seriously.

 

[Bubba Zanetti]

For me, and some people have already touched on similar themes, its multiple factors that may make you change bikes.

I started track days on a 1997 Honda VFR. Did suspension work, raised the rear and basically had it as dialed in as best I could but after 15-18 track days was just not learning and basically aimlessly riding around in B-group. A few years back me and some cronies did the VIR Full/ Patriot combo in July. My sessions on Patriot were so much fun, but the VFR made them work and two of the major problems with that bike was it always felt neutral and never gave any feedback that I could easily discern and it was a tank and it hated being turned in quickly. I remember the moment clearly on Patriot. I wanted to take this hobby more seriously with regards to learning and the old advice of some CR’s and NESBA staff now retired or gone gave me and others I know: “You want to learn to go fast? Buy a SV or a two-stroke”.

Well I always had wanted a two stroke as I started watching racing in 2000. Then after meeting JonnyZ back when he had his TZ250…well the bug had bit pretty hard. The rest they say is history.

My first couple times riding it the 125 was giving me so much feedback it was information overload. Thank God the 2T community was in the pits with me telling me what all the information meant LOL! I have ridden the 125 around 8 times at the track. The last 4 days with NESBA I have been pulled aside and told I am ready for the next level, however they need to see one small advancement. That advancement has been discovered and is a easy goal to achieve. The reason I was missing it was just sheer ignorance in riding a 2T. The learning curve is so steep and the bikes so extreme that there is no ‘in between”. It’s all or nothing. For my mind and how I learn, I often need extreme so I will focus on the task at hand. And, the damn thing is so fun to ride its downright scary.

Other factors to consider, and like Fastguy, I run on a budget and have a family. So I only ride about 4-6 days a year. I like having to get on a bike that forces extreme focus right out of the box. That helps me maximize the few track days God blesses me to attend each year. It was a lot to juggle selling my VFR to fund the TZ, then buy spares and begin the tuning process. The negative side of that was lost track time and your first few times on a new bike, you are kind of back at zero as you have to get everything dialed in again and refine the machine for you. Even if you have money to burn, every upgrade or part purchase takes away possible track time.

You know yourself and what your goals are. Take your time and ask around. One thing I have found in talking to R6 owners. If they have had other track bikes, they really rave about their R6. The only thing I have heard is not everyone fits on them well. I would think some ergonomic changes would help, but that’s not much in the negative Dept.

Lots of good thoughts posted already. Keep us informed of what you have in mind. Again, for me having the right bike for my personality has taken me further in a shorter amount of time.

BZ

 

[erick1670]

Bubba Zanetti;260647 wrote:

Other factors to consider, and like Fastguy, I run on a budget and have a family. So I only ride about 4-6 days a year. I like having to get on a bike that forces extreme focus right out of the box. That helps me maximize the few track days God blesses me to attend each year. It was a lot to juggle selling my VFR to fund the TZ, then buy spares and begin the tuning process. The negative side of that was lost track time and your first few times on a new bike, you are kind of back at zero as you have to get everything dialed in again and refine the machine for you. Even if you have money to burn, every upgrade or part purchase takes away possible track time.

BZ

:agree: that happen to me with this new bike until my 4th & 5th ride I was starting to have fun with it.... I too run with a budget so I though that having too many bikes was adding....

 

[madriders86]

I switch bikes when I think something different or more powerful will help me learn more. I've gotten to know my sv650 quite well. The only thing I'd replace it with right now would be a 125 or 250 GP bike, but I don't have the cash to run one of those.

 

[vinny337]

+1 Aman good comments...Take it from someone who switched back and forth between a 600 and 1000 GSXR. Some tracks I was faster on the 1000 other tracks I was faster on the 600, I sold the 1000 swapped the motor in the 600 to a 750, for me that was the best move I could have made. At the end of the day you'll know when it's time to upgrade...

 

[Turbo329]

I've been rocking a '98 ZX7R on the track for the last 2 seasons and being on a slower bike has worked wonders for my riding. With New Jersey Thunderbolt as a reference I was stuck at 1:42 and now I can run consistent 1:38s. Not truly fast but I would call it respectable.

My goal this year was 1:35 and then I made a deal with myself to upgrade the bike probably to a liter bike (ZX10R) or a 2012 GSX-R750 once I hit that mark. I almost cracked and did it even though I didn't reach 1:35 and then a good friend told me that guys Expert racers are running 1:34s with SV650s. After eating the humble pie I decided that I was going to keep running the ZX7R until I hit the magic number of 1:35 at Thunderbolt.

So I actually overlaid one of my onboard videos with a video a friend made who was riding an R1 and running 1:33s. I was able to see that my braking needs a lot of work and he was gaining almost a full second by the time he was through turn 1 at Thunderbolt. So between Turn 1 and carrying more cornerspeed in turn 4 I should be able to at least crack a 1:36 if I do it properly.

I was able to see that it wasn't the bike that was holding me back. True story. When I was running 1:40s I swore that there was no way I could go any faster on this dinosaur and then I saw someone come around on a ratty YZF600R which was almost as heavy and had even lower horsepower. So even if I could argue that the SV650s were super light, I had no explanation for the guy that spanked me on the YZF600R. :doh:

In my case, I can see only 2 reasons to change the bike. Once I hit my goal of 1:35 at Thunderbolt; ...or if I get so bored of the bike that I don't get any joy from riding it. And the latter hasn't happened yet.

I do also have a 1000cc (2004 F4S 1+1) but I know that even that 7 year old Liter bike is still waaaay past my ability so I don't even bother with it. Besides the fact that that is my garage queen.

Track Days are all about having fun anyway. We all go to the track for different reasons. If you want to get faster, then it would serve you best to ride a bike that fits your level of ability. If you want to sport nice photos on your rodded up Liter bike Horsepower King (bragging to folks at work who don't know what the deal is )..... then that's cool too. Whatever excites you is ultimately what's important. And at the end of the day, when you are taking the drive back home and you see your bike in the rear view mirror still in one peace, then it was all good!

 

[JRA]

Bikes can play a big part in the enjoyment you get out of a trackday. I often see where people say that it's never the bike holding them back. Something to keep in mind is that isn't necessarily true. Anything that is easier or more comfortable for you to ride will add to your enjoyment and make you faster at the same time. A truly talented rider will find a way to go fast on anything. Most of us in the real world of riding though can only start to explore our own ability when we are BarcaLounger comfortable. It's much easier to be comfy on a modern, well set up bike IMO.

 

[Bubba Zanetti]

madriders86;260693 wrote: I switch bikes when I think something different or more powerful will help me learn more. I've gotten to know my sv650 quite well. The only thing I'd replace it with right now would be a 125 or 250 GP bike, but I don't have the cash to run one of those.

I keep telling you a 125 isn't that bad :dunno:

BZ

 

[betarace]

Bubba Zanetti;260758 wrote: I keep telling you a 125 isn't that bad :dunno:

BZ

It's like my Ducati running on 1 cylinder with sugar in the tank at idle in neutral.

 

[Bubba Zanetti]

Finally! You give a proper review

BZ

 

[Slow Steve]

The 750 is the way to go! Fast enough to jump a 1000 that is slow on the gas on exit or at least to run with him down the straight for some late braking, nimble enough to hang with the 600 in the corners & will power wheelie with no problem. I learned so much on mine this year. I dropped 5 seconds from my Mille to the 750 on the 1st day riding it. Then went on to drop an additional 15 seconds by the end of the year. THE GSXR 750'S ARE AMAZING.

Fastguy (Rob) is selling his!

 

[noobinacan]

Slow Steve;260816 wrote: The 750 is the way to go! Fast enough to jump a 1000 that is slow on the gas on exit or at least to run with him down the straight for some late braking, nimble enough to hang with the 600 in the corners & will power wheelie with no problem. I learned so much on mine this year. I dropped 5 seconds from my Mille to the 750 on the 1st day riding it. Then went on to drop an additional 15 seconds by the end of the year. THE GSXR 750'S ARE AMAZING.

Fastguy (Rob) is selling his!

someone at Barber mentioned how a 750 is basically like a supersport 600. but with a reliable motor.
It would make sense to graduate from 600 to 750. but that said, 750 would still be a 600 style of riding.

If down the road, I graduate to a 1000, that's a new style of riding to try and learn.

but something to be said, to be able to ride a 190hp + superbike flat out (easy said than done)