When Should I switch from Q2 to Race Tires (D211GPA or better)?

DUNLOP-RTS

DUNLOP-RTS

New Member
JBGB3;226713 wrote: Steve, (or anyone else with knowledge on the subject),
Hoping this isn't a dead thread, but to combine two of the above issues: running a light bike and trying to get heat into the tires. Is it possible to be unable to maintain the needed heat in a pair of tires (Q2s) regardless of your pace, because your bike is light? Whether warmers are used or not? I don't want to waste the money on warmers if I can't keep the heat in there!

Catch-22: "to keep the heat in you need to push harder" but "in order to push hard you have to keep heat in your tires"!!!

Does Dunlop (my preferred brand) make tires, as other manufacturers do for the supermotarders, aimed at the requirements of light weight bikes for high levels of grip? Put another way: TZ-250 grip on a Q2 budget.

Any help would be appreciated.
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Go to this link for more information: http://forums.superbikeschool.com/index.php?showtopic=2561&view=findpost&p=20782

You are placing too much emphasis on the running temperature of the tire. If your lap times are 15 seconds off of the top riders times, you will not have the same heat in the tire as he does. but at the same time your lap time does not require the same grip level. so its a sliding scale of needed grip - heat - available grip.

As you go faster the need for grip increases, along with the heat and available grip. You must build up from cold tire to hot tire (unless you use warmers).

Smaller bikes will never produce the same temps as larger heavier, higher HP bikes.

Be more concerned with how the tire feels and the grip it is providing, YOUR feeling of this. Be less concerned (or not concerned at all) with what a temperature gauge says. YOUR feel is the most important thing, not the temp gauge.

If you rode and everything felt fine, you had a great ride, the bike felt good, the tires felt good, then all is fine. But if your friend checked your tire temp after that ride and told you it was to cold, then you would go and make changes and be all concerned and worried. That gauge just blew your weekend of riding for no valid reason. My advice is to leave the temp gauge at home. Its not a tool that is useful at a track day. It puts riders in doubt and makes things uncertain, Leave it at home.

Supermoto: We will have some new supermoto product available this year. Lower cost.
 
J

JBGB3

New Member
Thanks very much Steve, for all the info you have provided here and taking the time to beat it into my head, I now "get it". I look forward to what's next in the 250GP/supermoto line.
 
S3aturnR

S3aturnR

New Member
so, if i'm a rider that doesn't want/can't afford tire warmers, but i still wanna go fast i can still get the previously estimated 4-6 days out of the "race" tires without warmers, just using the first couple laps to warm up the tires?

i'd really like to try the DOT race tires, but figured that my money would be poorly invested in them due to no tire warmers. i was led to believe that, somehow, tire warmers helps extend the useful life of the race tire and without them, i'd just be wasting my money.

i gotta be honest here; my main goal is to just be able to scrape enough money together to continue going to track days. i've been under the impression that, with my shoestring budget in mind, the q2 tires were the best bang for the buck. if you're saying i can change nothing but my tires and still have a good time for about the same duration (or longer) than my q2 and have some more grip to play with, i'm in. i can handle the difference in tire price as long as all else is equal...


s3aturnr
 
DUNLOP-RTS

DUNLOP-RTS

New Member
S3aturnR;226842 wrote: so, if i'm a rider that doesn't want/can't afford tire warmers, but i still wanna go fast i can still get the previously estimated 4-6 days out of the "race" tires without warmers, just using the first couple laps to warm up the tires?

i'd really like to try the DOT race tires, but figured that my money would be poorly invested in them due to no tire warmers. i was led to believe that, somehow, tire warmers helps extend the useful life of the race tire and without them, i'd just be wasting my money.

i gotta be honest here; my main goal is to just be able to scrape enough money together to continue going to track days. i've been under the impression that, with my shoestring budget in mind, the q2 tires were the best bang for the buck. if you're saying i can change nothing but my tires and still have a good time for about the same duration (or longer) than my q2 and have some more grip to play with, i'm in. i can handle the difference in tire price as long as all else is equal...


s3aturnr
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I do not believe that tire warmers extend the life of a tire to any significant degree. There is no empirical data to support this. There are too many variables to get a good factual observation from just a track day.

Moving on, if you are using Q2 and happy, then stick with it. If you want more grip, then try a race tire like the D211GPA.

The estimate of 4-6 days is just an estimate. The life of the tire depends on many variable; Track surface, track temp, tire pressure, bike setup, lap times, rider throttle control, rider lines and drive and others, desired grip level. You might get more, you might get less days.

If you are curious about running race tires you need to try it YOURSELF and experience it yourself and you be the judge for you.

Certainly the grip will be better.
 
meanstrk

meanstrk

Control Rider
Keep in mind that the cost of Q2's compared to the cost of 211's is drastic. If you can't afford warmers, chances are you can't fathom the additional cost of tires either.
 
meanstrk

meanstrk

Control Rider
That combo is not bad in terms of price, but straight 211's are a hit to the wallet when you can get Q2's for $200 shipped.
 
Illernoise

Illernoise

New Member
Very informative thread. Now Q and A time.

I'm currently running Q2s on my 09 R1. I ran pretty good at NJMP my last track day and am absolutely in love with the Q2s. I have Power Ones on my 07 R1 and was running them the same day as my 09 and I didn't much care for them at all, so I'm hooked on Dunlop for sure. I'm fairly new when it comes to track riding and tire buying as I've had 4 track days under my belt now. I'm looking at getting new tires for the 09 and other than the obvious of price, what is the difference between the 209's and 211's? I was thinking of picking up a set of 209's for my 3 day at the end of July. Thanks for your input and I look forward to hearing from you.
 
H

hooligan998

New Member
FWIW...I ran a set of 209 GP-A specs on my 07 R1 for my first 3 track days. I loved the confidence inspiring stick they provided. I pretty much shredded them in those 3 trackdays, but I have suspension work to do. I don't use warmers and the only issue I had was the front pushed out on me a little, but I was only 1 or 2 laps in on an early morning session and just probably pushed too hard too early.

Question for Dunlop-RTS: Concerning the GP-A specs, are the 209s still in production or are they being phased out by the 211s?
 
M

moto1320

Member
meanstrk;227193 wrote: That combo is not bad in terms of price, but straight 211's are a hit to the wallet when you can get Q2's for $200 shipped.
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I'm paying 50-70 more than that a set for Q2's :doh:, can you recommend a vendor to me?
 
DDay85

DDay85

New Member
Can I run the 211GPA's on the street or is that a bad idea? I'd rather not shell out the cash for an extra set of rims and rotors.
 
meanstrk

meanstrk

Control Rider
Baaaad idea. Particularly in the winter. Those are designed to provide grip at higher temp levels than you will ever be able to maintain on the street, and in winter the grip will suck ass. You can get away with it during a hot summer, but even then it's just wasting money due to the limited longevity of the tires.
 
meanstrk

meanstrk

Control Rider
DUNLOP-RTS;227189 wrote: Define: DRASTIC?

What is the price for each? then let the rider decide based on facts, not the emotion of "Drastic". ;)


D211GP-A's are $375 per set.

You can get a combo D209GP-A and D211GP-A for $289 per set.

What are Q2 going for these days?
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Fair enough, but are you guys pushing those 209 fronts still? I would rather run a Q3 that a 209.

By "Drastic", I meant that you can still get the Q2's for around $200 a set. Maybe a little more. When you consider that DOT's run over $300 per set, that's a bit of a change when they are not use to paying that kind of difference.
 
DUNLOP-RTS

DUNLOP-RTS

New Member
DDay85;294338 wrote: Can I run the 211GPA's on the street or is that a bad idea? I'd rather not shell out the cash for an extra set of rims and rotors.
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Sure, the D211GPA is a DOT tire. Totally street approved.

Keep in mind that just because its a race tire does not mean you can go a race pace and get the same traction. Use your head and good judgment, don't go flicking it into every left hand turn at race pace. Certainly if its cold or wet you must use good judgment. If the D211GPA is not providing grip in a certain condition, its not likely the Q2 or Q3 would be better.

Some may caution you about the winter time or not having heat in the tire. I would recommend you read the first post on this thread again. Some of the tire myths are based on opinion rather than imperial fact and testing back to back under the same conditions, bike and rider.
 
DUNLOP-RTS

DUNLOP-RTS

New Member
meanstrk;294344 wrote: Fair enough, but are you guys pushing those 209 fronts still? I would rather run a Q3 that a 209.

By "Drastic", I meant that you can still get the Q2's for around $200 a set. Maybe a little more. When you consider that DOT's run over $300 per set, that's a bit of a change when they are not use to paying that kind of difference.
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Yes we have the D209GPA front and new D211GPA rear combo available. If you don't want the D209GPA front, get the D211GPA front and rear (190/55 rear) for under $300 per set. Its on our website. www.dunlopracing.com
 
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