Should Ladies get a different rate?
- Thread starter Landshark
- Start date
fitz
New Member
If my wife was to start riding on the track and if we were deciding what track org. to ride with that month for a certain track, cost would be at the top of the list. It's expensive enough for one person but when you multiply 2x to everything how much $$ would speak very loudly..
NESBA is a great org. and this is where most of my money goes BUT I know at least one other org. that I liked as much that I would choose over NESBA based on cost alone, add the 2x rate for two people, lower cost to afford more track time would win out every time.
Some are seeing this as some kind of political question (equal rights, gender) when in fact I believe it's more of a business question, but I could be wrong.
It might be possible that females on the track might be moving at an accelerated rate in the next few years and if NESBA doesn't plan ahead they could miss out :dunno:
fitz
NESBA is a great org. and this is where most of my money goes BUT I know at least one other org. that I liked as much that I would choose over NESBA based on cost alone, add the 2x rate for two people, lower cost to afford more track time would win out every time.
Some are seeing this as some kind of political question (equal rights, gender) when in fact I believe it's more of a business question, but I could be wrong.
It might be possible that females on the track might be moving at an accelerated rate in the next few years and if NESBA doesn't plan ahead they could miss out :dunno:
fitz
HondaGalToo
Control Rider
:haha:NoBull;106817 wrote: Troy, are Lauries 54 trackdays starting to impact your budget??
rk97
Member
Without naming names, I KNOW there are some ladies who ride with STT primarily because it's cheaper. At least one has explicitly said so in declining invitations to ride with NESBA.
Now that said, I don't think women make up a significant portion of the trackday market. NESBA isn't going to lose any money by the overwhelming majority of women riding with STT
I'm all for equality, but if I were lucky enough to convince my wife to try a trackday, and STT was going to cut us a price break, I'd be seriously tempted to ride with them. And THAT's where NESBA would need to be competitive - keeping my business, not failing to gain my wife's.
a family discount would cover us just as well though.
I've never seen anyone in the military turn down a military discount in the name of equality either...
Now that said, I don't think women make up a significant portion of the trackday market. NESBA isn't going to lose any money by the overwhelming majority of women riding with STT
I'm all for equality, but if I were lucky enough to convince my wife to try a trackday, and STT was going to cut us a price break, I'd be seriously tempted to ride with them. And THAT's where NESBA would need to be competitive - keeping my business, not failing to gain my wife's.
a family discount would cover us just as well though.
"YOU ARE ALL EQUALLY WORTHLESS IN MY EYES!"
I've never seen anyone in the military turn down a military discount in the name of equality either...
meanstrk
Control Rider
As a retired Marine, that statement speaks volumes! Touting equality is one thing though, and honoring military service is another. If Nesba or any other org gave military discounts, that would be cool too IMHO. What the poster above says about NESBA keeping his buisness is an excellent point as well, and is exactly why I posted up the possible "family" discount.
Meat
Member
It honestly would piss me off to give discounts to women for track days. It means that they are more important if they are extended perks that the majority of members cannot get.
I do really appreciate women, heck I even married one, but I think it may cause some animosity toward the women when that is obviously the opposite of what you are trying to achieve.
Nesba is a closer and tighter knit group than other track orgs. The animosity probably wouldn't have any impact in a track org that isn't nearly as friendly, helpful or social.
I do really appreciate women, heck I even married one, but I think it may cause some animosity toward the women when that is obviously the opposite of what you are trying to achieve.
Nesba is a closer and tighter knit group than other track orgs. The animosity probably wouldn't have any impact in a track org that isn't nearly as friendly, helpful or social.
Meat
Member
I think Meanstreak had a good idea about a membership discount but not sure about a discount on track days.
I do see the difficulty in attracting new riders without irritating present members. I think the nesba family is much more loyal and I realize that the last thing nesba wants to do is ruin the fantastic loyal group it presently has.
I do see the difficulty in attracting new riders without irritating present members. I think the nesba family is much more loyal and I realize that the last thing nesba wants to do is ruin the fantastic loyal group it presently has.
rk97
Member
I appreciate that those members with military ties took my comment in good humor. I certainly meant no disrespect.
the fact is that any 'discount' isn't slighting those who don't receive it, but rather arbitrarily rewarding those who do.
the guys aren't getting screwed - but the girls are getting lucky. Same principle applies to "ladies' night" at bars...
is that "equality?" no. But it's hard to argue that a 'discount' is unfair.
at my gym, the first membership is $25/month. the second is $20/month. Everyone thereafter is $15/month. The only stipulation is that all our memberships must be billed to the same credit card, at the same time. (works for my wife, me, my sister-in-law, and her boyfriend).
I wonder if the same theory would work well for a NESBA 'family' discount. It also avoids the potential political nightmare of legally defining "family" in the context of such a discount. If you trust each other enough to collect payment, you're 'family.'
the fact is that any 'discount' isn't slighting those who don't receive it, but rather arbitrarily rewarding those who do.
the guys aren't getting screwed - but the girls are getting lucky. Same principle applies to "ladies' night" at bars...
is that "equality?" no. But it's hard to argue that a 'discount' is unfair.
at my gym, the first membership is $25/month. the second is $20/month. Everyone thereafter is $15/month. The only stipulation is that all our memberships must be billed to the same credit card, at the same time. (works for my wife, me, my sister-in-law, and her boyfriend).
I wonder if the same theory would work well for a NESBA 'family' discount. It also avoids the potential political nightmare of legally defining "family" in the context of such a discount. If you trust each other enough to collect payment, you're 'family.'
hank
Member
An apples v. turnips comparison...
Your gym charges less per person because they have the capacity to handle far more people than currently utilize the gym... and ladies night discounts are used to increase the head count of women so as to provide an incentive for males to also attend; again, they have under-utilized capacity.
At the track there are a limited number of spaces and generally sell out due to low availability w/high utilization. This is very different from the gym & bar scenes...
What we are actually discussing in economic terms is called 'price discrimination' and in practice would be very difficult to achieve at a track day.
For an example that most people can relate to - at any event, there are people who can well afford to pay the cost of the event irrespective of being female or riding with a family member (spouse, child, etc) given their income - let's assume that it is fairly evident by the vehicles they roll up in, the RV's, their equipment, bike, etc.
And likewise there are people who can barely afford to do the day, again, assuming it is evident by their old beater bike and that they sleep in their beat up vehicle or tent.
So it's OK to have the people who are scrimping to subsidize those that are can well afford it simply based on gender or relationship? Having a total of 40 bikes on the track is still 40 bikes, irrespective of the DNA of the people riding them...
Obviously this is an anecdotal example, but you can see where it would be difficult to determine who is 'deserving' of a discount...
Using 'head count' to determine price would only be effective if every event was priced like the airlines - the price is continually adjusted based on overall demand up to the date of the event. Clearly it isn't worth the hassle of creating and maintaining such a system...
So, in the absence of having an equitable and reliable heuristic, simply price events fairly to everyone, which already happens - e.g., weekdays are priced lower than weekends because demand is lower and the reduced price provides an incentive.
I think a "Family Rate" would be something to try. For those living at the same address. Perhaps 15% off the standard rate x2? I have no idea if the budgets will allow this, but I like the idea. Perhaps on specific dates that are historically hard to fill up.
We are much more likely to attract more riders (siblings, couples, partners, roomates) with a family rate than a ladies rate.
I guess the question is: Do you want more females, or more riders?
Motofun352
Control Rider
YES X2! :wow: That's a "different" rate, right?
trickyricky
New Member
I like the family concept. I think that any discounts should be applied towards membership, leaving track prices to mirror supply/demand rules. I like the little discount offered when you book multiple dates. Military discounts are cool too since both my wife and I have earned it, but they are not neccessary. I'm sure if they offered discounts for other occupations, those folks would enjoy them as well.
I've been to places were they've hosted ladies trackday dates, and get them sold out, I thought it was a clever way to get a complete demographic sector interested and willing to participate in an otherwise "boys" activity. Is this sexist? Absolutely; why not? How many of you guys know ladies, be them wives, girlfriends, sisters, etc. that thinks that what you do on those weekends in kinda cool? Well just like NESBA offers no cost try it out track days, you could, offer at special venues, such an offer. Japan has trackdays just for women, or they would segregate the sessions. Sounds silly? It worked though.
Bottom line, give me 20% off military discount per trackday, you guys can keep the rest
:agree:
I've been to places were they've hosted ladies trackday dates, and get them sold out, I thought it was a clever way to get a complete demographic sector interested and willing to participate in an otherwise "boys" activity. Is this sexist? Absolutely; why not? How many of you guys know ladies, be them wives, girlfriends, sisters, etc. that thinks that what you do on those weekends in kinda cool? Well just like NESBA offers no cost try it out track days, you could, offer at special venues, such an offer. Japan has trackdays just for women, or they would segregate the sessions. Sounds silly? It worked though.
Bottom line, give me 20% off military discount per trackday, you guys can keep the rest
:agree:
HondaGalToo
Control Rider
The family discount, for members at the same address, applied to membership fees only isn't a bad idea.
Eh, I've done women's only trackdays. When I was first starting out, it was a bit more appealing, but only because I had a preconceived notion that guys would naturally all be more aggressive, and a women's only day would be more "nurturing" (for lack of a better word) to new women riders. I've since learned that lots of guys are just as nervous and timid the first time out, and that women's trackdays weren't as friendly as I might have thought. I have no interest in a women only trackday. No interest in a women's only/2-up session after lunch that another org does, either, as I feel it cuts into everyone's track time.
I've been doing this a long time, and hindsight is that I'd have been just as comfortable had my first day been co-ed.
Do the other orgs have a lot more women members than NESBA? I see there are now two orgs with a cheaper trackday rate for women. That still doesn't make me want to leave NESBA. And, as far as doing things to recruit more women, as someone pointed out, it's such a small demographic that it wouldn't make a blip in the overall number of members. Most other women riders I know are on cruisers.
Eh, I've done women's only trackdays. When I was first starting out, it was a bit more appealing, but only because I had a preconceived notion that guys would naturally all be more aggressive, and a women's only day would be more "nurturing" (for lack of a better word) to new women riders. I've since learned that lots of guys are just as nervous and timid the first time out, and that women's trackdays weren't as friendly as I might have thought. I have no interest in a women only trackday. No interest in a women's only/2-up session after lunch that another org does, either, as I feel it cuts into everyone's track time.
I've been doing this a long time, and hindsight is that I'd have been just as comfortable had my first day been co-ed.
Do the other orgs have a lot more women members than NESBA? I see there are now two orgs with a cheaper trackday rate for women. That still doesn't make me want to leave NESBA. And, as far as doing things to recruit more women, as someone pointed out, it's such a small demographic that it wouldn't make a blip in the overall number of members. Most other women riders I know are on cruisers.
Mikey75702
Member
I think the Family discount is an awesome idea, and agree with previous posters, that it should only be towards membership