blueninja1
New Member
I've thought carefully before deciding to sincerely chime in and respond to this thread. If this discussion can serve to stop people from acting irresponsibly on the track, I will make the effort to discuss. So here are my thoughts...
Draggin, your desire to sample a racing environment is understandable and at times i guess we all want to just unleash on the track, with abandon. However, you have to understand the reason that NESBA is run the way that it is. It is not meant to be a "racing" experience, but serve as a safe environment to sharpen skills.
Being in I group, you have to showcase that you are not only fast enough, but in control, to get the bump to A. If you cannot perform techniques at slow speed, how do you expect to do them at full speed? You said that you can work on some skills, so why not take the time to work on them. Just grab a CR and make sure you are doing everything correctly. Who knows, maybe you are doing some things wrong that you think you are doing right. There are things that you cannot see that others can pick up. (Sidenote: CR's are also human and may make a mistake every once in a while. Remember that these guys have families, jobs, and lives, and they dedicate time from their lives to help YOU. Take a moment and have a little respect.)
For the A bump you have to consistently show that despite what another rider is doing, you can get around them safely. The key word is safely, NOT quickly or aggressively. Remember, a trackday is not a race, but a place to showcase your technique SAFELY. I did not examine your lines, but if the majority of people are telling you that something is wrong, you are most likely wrong. Take the time and try out the lines people are showing you. At least give it a chance. Maybe the perfect line for your bike is somewhere in between. Every bike has a slightly different ideal line. It also depends on your riding style and the way the bike is setup.
Another situation where rider control comes in handy is when you have to stray off the traditional line in order to pass somebody. If you truly have control and are quick enough, you can pass somebody on the outside [required in I group] without even thinking about it. If you have to think, DO NOT DO IT, it is too late. So I am stressing to learn to control the bike. You have to learn it at a slow speed and REPEAT REPEAT REPEAT, until it becomes muscle memory. The speed will come, do not rush it. You seem a bit impatient and too sure of yourself to get that A bump. Patience is key my friend. Without patience you will end up on your head one of these days, and you might take someone down with you.
Another point I would like to bring up is that you are not the only one on the track. Other people paid to sharpen their skills and they may not be as skilled or fearless as you. Everyone is at a different skill level, everyone is different, so you have to ride with margin for error and in a respectful manner when coming up on others.
Here is a funny story, just to give perspective on why it is not a good idea to pass on the inside OR pass without a wave by [actions forbidden in B and I group for good reason]. I was riding with an ORG and a rider passed me up the inside with only inches between us. Luckily my bike was upright but I was not prepared for this at all and I just grabbed the brake as soon as he whizzed by me (in a panic). Imagine if I was leaned over and he did that pass. If I panicked and grabbed the brake while leaned over I would lowside right away. NOT GOOD. Situations like this is what NESBA wants to avoid. Take other riders into consideration.
Also, it is very easy to get caught up in the "I MUST ACHIEVE A GROUP" mindset. Who cares what group you are in? Honestly. At the end of the day it is about you enjoying yourself and learning a little bit more. Eventually you will get to A. Do not worry about that. I admit I had that mindset before but you have to snap yourself out of it. Why are you riding, for a rank? Take a step back and reassess. Don't endanger other people's lives and your own for a sticker. If you take the time to learn and enjoy what you are doing, the journey will be sweeter. I promise.
To sum up everything, NESBA wants everyone to excel at riding and go home happy and unharmed. In order to do this NESBA can't be run as a race org, plain and simple. If you want to get your kicks free of rules, its very simple. Go racing. But please try to keep trackdays as safe as possible by heeding this info.
Draggin, your desire to sample a racing environment is understandable and at times i guess we all want to just unleash on the track, with abandon. However, you have to understand the reason that NESBA is run the way that it is. It is not meant to be a "racing" experience, but serve as a safe environment to sharpen skills.
Being in I group, you have to showcase that you are not only fast enough, but in control, to get the bump to A. If you cannot perform techniques at slow speed, how do you expect to do them at full speed? You said that you can work on some skills, so why not take the time to work on them. Just grab a CR and make sure you are doing everything correctly. Who knows, maybe you are doing some things wrong that you think you are doing right. There are things that you cannot see that others can pick up. (Sidenote: CR's are also human and may make a mistake every once in a while. Remember that these guys have families, jobs, and lives, and they dedicate time from their lives to help YOU. Take a moment and have a little respect.)
For the A bump you have to consistently show that despite what another rider is doing, you can get around them safely. The key word is safely, NOT quickly or aggressively. Remember, a trackday is not a race, but a place to showcase your technique SAFELY. I did not examine your lines, but if the majority of people are telling you that something is wrong, you are most likely wrong. Take the time and try out the lines people are showing you. At least give it a chance. Maybe the perfect line for your bike is somewhere in between. Every bike has a slightly different ideal line. It also depends on your riding style and the way the bike is setup.
Another situation where rider control comes in handy is when you have to stray off the traditional line in order to pass somebody. If you truly have control and are quick enough, you can pass somebody on the outside [required in I group] without even thinking about it. If you have to think, DO NOT DO IT, it is too late. So I am stressing to learn to control the bike. You have to learn it at a slow speed and REPEAT REPEAT REPEAT, until it becomes muscle memory. The speed will come, do not rush it. You seem a bit impatient and too sure of yourself to get that A bump. Patience is key my friend. Without patience you will end up on your head one of these days, and you might take someone down with you.
Another point I would like to bring up is that you are not the only one on the track. Other people paid to sharpen their skills and they may not be as skilled or fearless as you. Everyone is at a different skill level, everyone is different, so you have to ride with margin for error and in a respectful manner when coming up on others.
Here is a funny story, just to give perspective on why it is not a good idea to pass on the inside OR pass without a wave by [actions forbidden in B and I group for good reason]. I was riding with an ORG and a rider passed me up the inside with only inches between us. Luckily my bike was upright but I was not prepared for this at all and I just grabbed the brake as soon as he whizzed by me (in a panic). Imagine if I was leaned over and he did that pass. If I panicked and grabbed the brake while leaned over I would lowside right away. NOT GOOD. Situations like this is what NESBA wants to avoid. Take other riders into consideration.
Also, it is very easy to get caught up in the "I MUST ACHIEVE A GROUP" mindset. Who cares what group you are in? Honestly. At the end of the day it is about you enjoying yourself and learning a little bit more. Eventually you will get to A. Do not worry about that. I admit I had that mindset before but you have to snap yourself out of it. Why are you riding, for a rank? Take a step back and reassess. Don't endanger other people's lives and your own for a sticker. If you take the time to learn and enjoy what you are doing, the journey will be sweeter. I promise.
To sum up everything, NESBA wants everyone to excel at riding and go home happy and unharmed. In order to do this NESBA can't be run as a race org, plain and simple. If you want to get your kicks free of rules, its very simple. Go racing. But please try to keep trackdays as safe as possible by heeding this info.
D
dragginass
While I appreciate the sincerity in your post blueninja, re-read what I wrote here:
I have been riding on the track for 10 years. I've been passed by AMA riders so fast I think they were not following the laws of physics. I've been passed by knuckleheads riding over their head who ran me off the track. I get it guys.dragginass;258123 wrote:
My "goal" is not to get into "A". I have no goals with NESBA. Trackday groups are not an achievement and neither are having trackday numbers on a bike. My "goals" are to ride as much as possible and improve. Sure there are things I can work on even at a slower pace, but I won't continue to spend money with NESBA to constantly run up on slower riders at dangerous closing speeds, and have to check up every time I come up on an instructor. That is not the trackday experience I want. I'm not fast in the racing world and I never will be. But I also know my capabilities and I know what experience I want while on the track. So far NESBA has not provided that. Thats my experience, and my paying my fees and membership like everyone else gives me just as much right to voice my opinion.
Do I think anything will change because of what I have said? Absolutely not. Doesn't mean I can't think it.
D
dragginass
At any rate, I'm outta here. I'm sure I'll run into NESBA again down the road. Probably after my plates get painted white if that ever happens.
In the mean time you can enjoy me crashing in an advanced group @ NOLA, in the rain. Some of you will certainly giggle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21yn_bU-AG4&feature=youtu.be
And a good ol' fashioned highside I pulled in a race almost 10 years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLs3j-TGsN4
In exchange for posting the above, please poke mr allen in the side the next time you see him and tell him I said "nice dirt trackin"
In the mean time you can enjoy me crashing in an advanced group @ NOLA, in the rain. Some of you will certainly giggle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21yn_bU-AG4&feature=youtu.be
And a good ol' fashioned highside I pulled in a race almost 10 years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLs3j-TGsN4
In exchange for posting the above, please poke mr allen in the side the next time you see him and tell him I said "nice dirt trackin"
I find it hard to knock this, because honestly, I was saying that at one point. Looking back, I feel like a douche for "whining" to the CR's about it.
It wasn't until close to the end of the season that I recognize that passing opportunities are everywhere... I just never saw them. I'm fairly proficient in "I" group as a braker, not many guys pass me on the brakes.
Reading this thread HERE, particularily Post #12, opened up a whole other passing world to me. I tried it my next track day, and man, it worked. I remember bitching to a CR that I can't pass them on the outside, as they were running wide each time - I would be forced off the track. He showed me how to do it, properly, without disrupting the rider we were passing. After seeing it work so smoothly, I got extremely humbled and apologized for complaining like a child. He either moved the passing opportunity to earlier in the turn, giving them distance before the apex, or he came hauling in late, and passed him immediately after the turn and the rider stood his bike up - a pass that is 100% legit for "B" group, even!
The reason I'm rambling, is that if it doesn't feel "race like" to you, then it's you man. Seriously. Working on your passing skills in any group, B, I, or A, is going to do nothing but benefit you if you're trying to get your white number plates. Complaining that you can only pass on the outside is showing your lack of ability to pass. Unless you start out #1 on the grid...you're gonna have a tough time. Something tells me, that if you ever get to the point of having white plates, you'll suddenly find yourself not complaining about the passing rules anymore.
First "good save" is totally appropriate when someone runs off and stays upright. So I will stand by my ass kissing comments considering he went by you like you were standing still. Hey he overshot it. Again damn near everyone has done it. Orange shirts do not fix that.
Something tells me that draggin gets white plates he will be back to complaining about tech and registration.
It does matter that you can ride at another track frankly as A at NOLA needs to be A everywhere else.
Many have seen the one track wonder. Can roll Jennings (not picking on Jennings dudes or dudettes so calm down) get them to Road Atlanta not an A pace. We don't bump down for a day post crash or at a new track because in A you either get your head back or you move down. When you are ready you can get reevaluated. If you are worried about your ability in A and move down then it is the intent of a reevaluation to prove you are ready not just because you say you are.
Anyway as you say you may ride with NESBA down the road you may not.
and the World is still turning look at that.
Now for the shit that really blows my mind. Blueninja where the hell did that come from?????????????
I am blown away and want to compliment but one accusation of ass kissing per thread is all my fragile ego can take. Guess if you can come back on here and post like that I have to lace up the hockey skates because hell just froze over and I need to go get ready for the monkeys that will not doubt be flying out of my ass in the near future. Great post.
There are still passing rules again not a full race like feel
Something tells me that draggin gets white plates he will be back to complaining about tech and registration.
It does matter that you can ride at another track frankly as A at NOLA needs to be A everywhere else.
Many have seen the one track wonder. Can roll Jennings (not picking on Jennings dudes or dudettes so calm down) get them to Road Atlanta not an A pace. We don't bump down for a day post crash or at a new track because in A you either get your head back or you move down. When you are ready you can get reevaluated. If you are worried about your ability in A and move down then it is the intent of a reevaluation to prove you are ready not just because you say you are.
Anyway as you say you may ride with NESBA down the road you may not.
and the World is still turning look at that.
Now for the shit that really blows my mind. Blueninja where the hell did that come from?????????????
I am blown away and want to compliment but one accusation of ass kissing per thread is all my fragile ego can take. Guess if you can come back on here and post like that I have to lace up the hockey skates because hell just froze over and I need to go get ready for the monkeys that will not doubt be flying out of my ass in the near future. Great post.
bradvanhorn
Member
The best thing I can say is I didn't hear one person say they weren't having a great weekend and I never heard one complaint about the management of the event. Registration and tech were smooth, the event stayed on time, Saturday we had one crash and two parking trackside mid-session (one ran out of gas I think), and Sunday we had only one guy who had to be recovered (not sure if he crashed, bike looked totally fine, maybe a mechanical). There was lots of open space on the track and everyone got lots of laps. I tried to remind people what a good time we all were having whenever I heard "I don't like the rules..."
Bubba Zanetti
Member
Uhhggg!!! and to think I stuck up for draggin earlier in this thread when he is a member of "Al-D-bag's".
No good deed goes unpunished.
BZ
No good deed goes unpunished.
BZ
some guy #2
Member
I would laugh at your recent crash but as a new SV rider I have give a
D-Zum
My 13 year old is faster than your President
Considering all the laps guys like John Allen, Kubricky, Sanders, Kaley, DJ, Pitzer, Ruhe, Taylor and all the other CR's ride in a single season..and John Allen blew one corner on one lap and ran a little wide and went off track for 3 seconds...I'd say...we ignore it because the other 99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the corners they negotiated this year were almost perfect or darned near it.
I don't have the time for this thread so I can't be sure if anyone made these two points, but they need to be reiterated again and again, and you should all read them one more time...
TRACKDAYS ARE NOT RACING...repeat that with me...I don't care who you are, how long you've been "in the industry", or any other evidence you can present, you can't sway me...if you want to race...PLEASE go do so! The first person to ping me to say they truly understand that there is a difference and be able to explain it intelligently, I'll pay their first WERA or CCS race fee of 2013 (that is ONE race fee, but honestly, it is worth it, if it gets the one person with the race mentality off the track and onto the grid...they will likely return to the trackday with a different opinon).
Too much lean angle is possible...why do people disagree with this?
TRACKDAYS ARE NOT RACING...repeat that with me...I don't care who you are, how long you've been "in the industry", or any other evidence you can present, you can't sway me...if you want to race...PLEASE go do so! The first person to ping me to say they truly understand that there is a difference and be able to explain it intelligently, I'll pay their first WERA or CCS race fee of 2013 (that is ONE race fee, but honestly, it is worth it, if it gets the one person with the race mentality off the track and onto the grid...they will likely return to the trackday with a different opinon).
Too much lean angle is possible...why do people disagree with this?
crash675
Member
Ha ha I'll give it a shot. Racing is going balls out for a trophy and contingency money, trackdays are for learning no matter what the skill level of the rider. Trackdays are to help people to be smoother, faster and above all else safer. I personally like bringing my bike home in one piece.