Dave Moss at Barber after Thanksgiving

CaseyAlbert

Control Rider
I have received permission to have Dave Moss of “Dave Moss Tuning” to come to Barber this year if I can find enough interested parties. IMHO Dave is a wizard when it comes to suspension and tires.
Dave will assist riders in getting their suspension set for them and pass along valuable tips for adjusting tire pressures for your desired needs.
There are 6 slots available each day. I have 5 slots confirmed at this time and looking to fill all available slots. If you are only coming 1 day, I’m sure we can work it out. The cost will be 400$ for each slot. That covers Dave, his airfare(not cheap over Thanksgiving!), and hotel. I will cover his incidentals.
Interested parties can contact me here, or send me an email at; CaseyAlbert@yahoo.com.
 

rpm894

Member
IMHO Dave is a wizard when it comes to suspension and tires.

Why do you think Dave is a wizard?

I recall seeing a video of his years ago where he is setting up a guy's suspension and trying to figure out what type of Ohlins fork carts the bike has. Dave asks the guy how much they cost then concludes based on the price that they are the gas version. When I saw it, I thought that price could either be an expensive install of the cheaper version or a good price on the more expensive version. Based on the fork cap, I'm pretty sure Dave got it wrong. Regardless, if my suspension guy is trying to figure out what hardware I have by asking me how much I paid, I'm finding a new suspension guy.
 

CaseyAlbert

Control Rider
Why do you think Dave is a wizard?

I recall seeing a video of his years ago where he is setting up a guy's suspension and trying to figure out what type of Ohlins fork carts the bike has. Dave asks the guy how much they cost then concludes based on the price that they are the gas version. When I saw it, I thought that price could either be an expensive install of the cheaper version or a good price on the more expensive version. Based on the fork cap, I'm pretty sure Dave got it wrong. Regardless, if my suspension guy is trying to figure out what hardware I have by asking me how much I paid, I'm finding a new suspension guy.
Notice I said, “IMHO.”

I have learned more about tires/suspension tuning from Dave than I have learned anywhere.
 

CaseyAlbert

Control Rider
Im super curious to see what hes actually like IRL. In his videos he seems to have a tire wear fetish
I too have a “tire fetish.” I have gotten to the point where I am going through a rear tire or more every weekend. If your tire is too hot, you leave good rubber on the track. If your tire is too cold, you leave good rubber on the track. I have learned to tweak my tire pressures throughout the day to minimize wasted rubber to the best of my ability. I am interested in continuing my education and tweaking my “stock” suspension to its best settings for my riding style.
Example; I got to the point where I was out of preload and close to bottoming out my forks. I was planning to upgrade springs or bite the bullet on Ohlins. I asked Dave, and he said to add additional oil to each leg a certain amount and try that. I disassembled my fork legs, cleaned out a bunch of glop, new oil(with the additional), new seals and then reassembled. At this time about 2 years later, I am using about half of available preload, and generally very happy that I saved a couple thousand dollars and happy with the results. That is thanks to Dave Moss.
 

rpm894

Member
Notice I said, “IMHO.”

I have learned more about tires/suspension tuning from Dave than I have learned anywhere.
Yeah, I know that is your opinion. That is why I asked why you think he is a wizard. I don't think he is anything special and would rather work with someone local that very fast racers can vouch for. Like someone that shows up to N2 trackdays and WERA races.

What kind of lap times are you doing?
 
I applaud the spirit and intent of your efforts but I’m not convinced DMT is all that his self-promotion cracks him up to be. I see an unhealthy trend of “engineered dependency” that he fosters.

Who in the MotoAmerica or WERA paddock looks to DMT for help? He’s not flying in to consult any of them. If he were, that would indicate to me his relevancy and expertise.

Case in point, one of our own CRs (a seasoned veteran in American motorsports) had to clean up a DMT mess for a racer. While I’m strongly skeptical of DMT, that CR is passionately against DMT because he assessed that DMT carelessly endangered the racer.

Honestly, our own Dave Malizia from Pit Lane Moto could run a suspension day and truly educate riders. Now, Dave may not want to run an N2 suspension clinic but my point is we have a lot of talent in N2. DMT’s approach is to make riders think his touch is indispensable and given our club’s focus on training and enabling, I just don’t see DMT as a good fit.

I’m not trying to sabotage your effort but rather simply provide candid feedback that you may not get a lot of enthusiastic support.
 
Yeah, I know that is your opinion. That is why I asked why you think he is a wizard. I don't think he is anything special and would rather work with someone local that very fast racers can vouch for. Like someone that shows up to N2 trackdays and WERA races.

What kind of lap times are you doing?

We totally need a bullseye emoji.
 

tdelegram

Control Rider
A wise man once said to me, are you trying to go fast or see how long you can make a tire last?

One rear per day on my r1, and in the grand scheme of things I am not that fast.

I do agree with Brandon on Dave and if he's working on top racers bikes. He has done well for himself on YouTube and captured a great street following.
 

mmmfishrighton

Control Rider
A wise man once said to me, are you trying to go fast or see how long you can make a tire last?

One rear per day on my r1, and in the grand scheme of things I am not that fast.

I do agree with Brandon on Dave and if he's working on top racers bikes. He has done well for himself on YouTube and captured a great street following.
Only one rear per day?
 

rpm894

Member
I'm going through one rear tire a day on a R6 at certain tracks. Do I need to call Dave Moss?

I get the sense Dave Moss takes money from new track riders and people that are not going nearly fast enough to need what he is purporting to sell because they don't know any better. That's nothing more than leaching off this sport, which is already expensive and difficult to get into. I have no respect and lots of disdain for people like that.
 

ctk62

Member
I get the sense Dave Moss takes money from new track riders and people that are not going nearly fast enough to need what he is purporting to sell because they don't know any better. That's nothing more than leaching off this sport, which is already expensive and difficult to get into. I have no respect and lots of disdain for people like that.
This is kind of my feeling too. I think the concept of what he offers is kind of cool, but from what I understand he doesn't actually look at riding, so no feed back on lines, technique etc which is crazy. For example at my last TD I got rid of my chicken strips and the tire wear looked great. But CRs who followed me said I was super crossed up. Would Dave Moss be able to tell that with fork/shock zip ties and tire wear analysis? Someone w/more credibility than me should put together a tier list of stuff new riders should actually spend money on first.

Plus like someone else said bringing him in takes $$$ away from people already associated with N2.......... paying for a Dave Moss tire yoga retreat over ATP coaching or suspension setup from one of the vendors seems crazy to me.
 

TimTheAsian

Fresh off the Boat
Staff member
Control Rider
Why would we want someone at our track day that promotes things like this?

 

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Otto Man

John
Control Rider
I think it's a noble idea with good intention, but tend to agree with the replies in general. I'm painting with a very broad stroke here, but I don't see many respectable fast guys that subscribe to DM.

Talking about being fast isn't trying to big dick anyone, but there's no other metric in this sport to gauge ones ability. At the end of the day, lap times are the non-subjective measurement that you base things off of, which is why I don't give much initial credit when the first thing people say "Oh I'm in expert/advanced group". Well that's fine and dandy, but are you one of the backmarkers of A group or at the pointy end? Where as, if a lap record of a track is a 1:10.x, and you're running anything below a 1:15, I say to myself "Well, that guy knows which side the gas is on for sure". Because a lap time within a relative close percentage of the lap record tells anyone how much that rider is (or is not) pushing.

So after 10 years of coaching with N2, I feel I have a good idea on the riding capability of Novice/Intermediate group riders. Which, ironically, happens to be the Dave Moss fan base.

I have seen plenty of Novice and Intermediate group riders have some fucked up bikes. Blown fork seals, chains tighter than a guitar string, ergonomics all dicked up, incorrectly fitting helmets (watching riders have to slide their helmet up after a corner because it slid down and they couldn't see...), all sorts of nonsense. And this isn't even taking into consideration body positioning, lines, passing, etc.

Of all those things, tweaking suspension with some clickers isn't at the top of the list of things the rider should be worried about when they're circulating around the track at 20-30 seconds off the lap record. The slower the rider, the less it really matters. Are most Intermediate/Novice riders even capable of noticing a few clicks of rebound/comp/preload? Let's say DM corrects the suspension for that rider - is that the reason that rider couldn't hit an apex to save his life?

If he was coming with a bazillion fork and shock springs, tools to service suspension, and get an actual solid base line...I could see that. But to just look at tire wear, suggest some tire pressures, and limited suspension adjustment (within the confines of whatever springs/oil/etc are in the bike)? For $400? And at no shade against Dave, but he doesn't know what springs are in your bike, how the valve stacks are built, etc, because he can't disassemble everyone's suspension, so he's already very limited what he can adjust.

A total suspension refresh with the correct springs for your pace with an experts baseline (Pit Lane Moto, MDM, MRP, etc) isn't much more than $400 and would give the rider a much more refined starting point.
 

Lenny ZX9R

Control Rider
Dave Malizia just did my suspension on my R1, and I have to say that the man Knows exactly what hes doing! The bike handles great! I was very impressed with his communication and work! Check him out at Pitt Lane Moto! You won't be disappointed!

If you are ever at an N2 trackday and Dave Malizia is going to be there, Check with him at Pitt Lane Moto First, Make an appointment with him and he'll get you set up!
 

tdelegram

Control Rider
Dave Malizia just did my suspension on my R1, and I have to say that the man Knows exactly what hes doing! The bike handles great! I was very impressed with his communication and work! Check him out at Pitt Lane Moto! You won't be disappointed!

If you are ever at an N2 trackday and Dave Malizia is going to be there, Check with him at Pitt Lane Moto First, Make an appointment with him and he'll get you set up!
Dave's not here. No man I am Dave.
 

CaseyAlbert

Control Rider
Yikes! When were the forks last serviced? I don't think I've had any "glop" in mine.
Just curious.
“Glop” may have been an exaggeration, but there was more “fine” material in there than I expected. At that time, my bike had about 5000 total miles on it, of which about 4200(after initial break-in) were track miles.
Disclaimer. I was a motocrosser when I was young. I had not been riding motorcycles actively for several years until my first “track day” weekend was November 2018 at Barber at 62 years of age. I had a pretty bad wreck on my second day while wearing a textile suit when I touched the curbing going up the hill, and the curbing was damp. I spent the next 16 months out of work. When my wife showed up at the hospital, I told her that if I got better, I was going to get ”back on the horse.” I was on a rental R6 at the time of the incident, and was like a kid in a candy store.
I had bought the BMW that I continue to ride to do a cross country “windy rode” motorcycle trip that got cancelled.
I got back on the track in the spring of 2020 and have been hooked ever since.
 
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