Did i see a NESBA A sticker?
- Thread starter snikwad
- Start date
rk97
Member
Not for a crime, only a "civil penalty." They could question you about the crime, but that's it. Otherwise any car stolen and used to commit a crime would eff the owner.
Traffic cameras (which I assume you were referencing) are "civil fines" or some bullshit like that. Basically the courts have said, "well, we're not sending you to jail, so it's ok to ignore innocent until proven guilty." I think that's a crap argument, but it's the law in many states.
Bodell's wheelie incident should be a rarity, but there are some shitty lawyers out there, and some worse juries. Without knowing all the circumstances, it's hard to say why he was convicted for a crime the "witness" admitted (s)he didn't actually see HIM commit. If he, at any time, admitted to doing a wheelie - busted. If the prosecutor somehow managed to get evidence admitted of past wheelie infractions (shouldn't be admissible, but if he slips up and admits it...) - busted. If one of the jurors knows anyone who has ever been hurt doing a wheelie on a motorcycle - busted.
without knowing all the facts, it's difficult to rationalize any legal decision.
In this case, the only verifiable fact is the guy's WERA number. I really doubt that's enough to convict him.
Mikey75702
Member
Look up the motorcycle rider not long ago in Maryland that got arrested. He was riding like a dick, got stopped by an undercover cop at a red light, with his gun drawn and not identifying himself. He posted the video on youtube and shit hit the fan. There seems to be a lot of loopholes that allow police to make cases with crap evidence.
rk97
Member
he was indicted for recording the cop, not speeding. Last I heard, a judge also threw out the charge and reprimanded the prosecutor for bringing it in the first place.
I will freely admit that I didn't follow that closely, but it's not an apples-to-apples comparison, because he wasn't being charged with a traffic offense. It was a totally unrelated (revenge) charge because he posted the video and made the cop look like a douche.
geekmug
New Member
Without his face? What if he has a twin?! Or a doppleganger?! Or there was a cut in video?! Seriously, a face on a camera is just as "circumstantial evidence" as anything.
If he has been posting on the forums that he did it and he is the person who posted the video online and the video shows his bike and the guy on the bike is wearing leathers with the same scuff marks as his own and is wearing a helmet that is of the same design and is wearing boots of the same design and he is the only person with access to the bike.. The best defense he has at the moment is that it's unknown when the crime was committed -- but they already have enough probable cause to take computers and all you would need is one camera man to testify.
Beyond a reasonable doubt is not absolute ("to a moral certainty."). A mound (or even a molehill) of circumstantial evidence can be enough to get a conviction. The size of the mound may be related to how good of a lawyer you hire.. "If the glove don't fit, you must acquit."
Reckless endangerment is a class E felony in TN carrying anything from 1-6 years. Personally, I am not a fan of victimless crimes. I'm sure that crime is committed all day long on roads all across the country. But Bodell has a point that he made an example out of himself.
rk97
Member
Ok - let's assume that everyone who says this guy is so easy to convict is right.
Then why haven't the cops gone after him?
a) there's no money in it.
b) they know they have no case.
c) they're already plenty busy ticketing people who crash.
d) all of the above.
If I were Jared, I wouldn't be losing any sleep.
Then why haven't the cops gone after him?
a) there's no money in it.
b) they know they have no case.
c) they're already plenty busy ticketing people who crash.
d) all of the above.
If I were Jared, I wouldn't be losing any sleep.
Backmarker
Control Rider
I wish the ride no ill will as well.
I will say however.....
I did get a ticket once from a red light camera. All it had was a photo of my trailer tag. Not the tow vehicle. No face time. Just the rear of my trailer and it's tag. :banghead:
The law will do......what it wants....:doh:
But I don't think Jered needs to worry unless caught in the act.
.
I will say however.....
I did get a ticket once from a red light camera. All it had was a photo of my trailer tag. Not the tow vehicle. No face time. Just the rear of my trailer and it's tag. :banghead:
The law will do......what it wants....:doh:
But I don't think Jered needs to worry unless caught in the act.
.
Backmarker
Control Rider
It is no doubt about "Revenue".....:idea:
geekmug
New Member
Reminds me of 2004 Yamaha R6 Top Speed Run Hawaii. Police commented on the video, but I never heard about him getting charged with anything.. but there was significantly less evidence of who committed the crime.
It's only been 15 days since the video was posted on youtube. If they were to try to get a reckless conviction, they have up to 2 years from the incident to file it. You can say "I told you so" after that.
rk97
Member
I'll mark my calendar
If we're going to disagree on whether or not it's possible to convict this guy, have I at least convinced people that it's impractical?
Backmarker said it bluntly; it's about revenue. Deal's Gap is what keeps that 'town' afloat. Tourist and ticket revenue. Sending a guy to jail for up to 5 years doesn't get them any money, so they won't pursue it.
Yes, the video is a bad example, but it also promotes tourism of the area, and makes 500 more squids think they can do the same w/o being ticketed. Many of them will be wrong, and (literally) pay the price.
If we're going to disagree on whether or not it's possible to convict this guy, have I at least convinced people that it's impractical?
Backmarker said it bluntly; it's about revenue. Deal's Gap is what keeps that 'town' afloat. Tourist and ticket revenue. Sending a guy to jail for up to 5 years doesn't get them any money, so they won't pursue it.
Yes, the video is a bad example, but it also promotes tourism of the area, and makes 500 more squids think they can do the same w/o being ticketed. Many of them will be wrong, and (literally) pay the price.
bodell
New Member
States Evidence would be
Exhibit A.
IP addresses of his confession postings and uploads can be traced back to an address and mac address of a specific network adapter. (That’s like a digital fingerprint) All this takes is a court order and WERA/Youtube must provide this.
Exhibit B.
The testimony of those involved with the filming and editing, and us129photos. They will all be charged with conspiracy otherwise.
Exhibit C.
The video will be used more to get an emotional response out of a jury than to get a conviction.
The line of questioning will be along the lines of
"if this is not you, who is it?"
"who has access to your motorcycle helmet and leathers?"
and a million other questions that will make it apparent to a jury that he is lying.
BUT LIKE I SAID, THERE WILL BE NO TRIAL
Nobody in their right mind would go against years in jail with the only defense being that” you couldn’t see my face.”
No attorney would take that route.
Plea bargains don’t require evidence, only the threat of losing with a shotty defense.
The guy would take what the DA offers. Maybe a good lawyer can trade some favors around for a decent plea, but a "not guilty" verdict only exists in crack smoke daydreams.
Exhibit A.
IP addresses of his confession postings and uploads can be traced back to an address and mac address of a specific network adapter. (That’s like a digital fingerprint) All this takes is a court order and WERA/Youtube must provide this.
Exhibit B.
The testimony of those involved with the filming and editing, and us129photos. They will all be charged with conspiracy otherwise.
Exhibit C.
The video will be used more to get an emotional response out of a jury than to get a conviction.
The line of questioning will be along the lines of
"if this is not you, who is it?"
"who has access to your motorcycle helmet and leathers?"
and a million other questions that will make it apparent to a jury that he is lying.
BUT LIKE I SAID, THERE WILL BE NO TRIAL
Nobody in their right mind would go against years in jail with the only defense being that” you couldn’t see my face.”
No attorney would take that route.
Plea bargains don’t require evidence, only the threat of losing with a shotty defense.
The guy would take what the DA offers. Maybe a good lawyer can trade some favors around for a decent plea, but a "not guilty" verdict only exists in crack smoke daydreams.
geekmug
New Member
I agree, they would have to invest money into charging him, and it's unclear to me that putting away a single rider for years buys them any good PR. I would assume all of the locals assume idiots like that go down the dragon every day since they've built an economy out of it. Not sure who they would be trying to impress by reprimanding him.
So, I agree, Jared probably can sleep just fine at night.
moonbeam
New Member
It happed just the other day
Oklahoma Man Arrested for Driving 195 MPH (Video)
December 26, 2010 07:45 PM EST
views: 380 | comments: 3
Police arrested an Oklahoma man who drove 195 mph on the Kilpatrick Turnpike in OKC in his Corvette. He then posted his feat on a YouTube video. The stupid criminal award goes to this man, but don't forget to give him credit for salesmanship. He listed the car on eBay Motors, so he was showing what his Corvette could do.
Of course anyone with any knowledge of the car could have figured it out for himself or herself without this perpetrator of a deadly stunt showing it on a YouTube video. As the video shows, other drivers simply get out of his way, but it's Christmas time, and in the video you can see him passing a mall off to the right on the north side of the turnpike.
Oklahoma
Cody Replogle who is a 30-year-old Oklahoma man posted this brilliant video for all to see including the Oklahoma police who promptly arrested Replogle. How about giving this guy a good grade for not killing anyone, and a failing grade for brains? Can you imagine what would have happened if someone did not get out of his way at 195 mph?
Corvette
According to Yahoo, Replogle says, "This one is getting onto the turnpike and climing [sic] over 195+ mph. I was in 5th gear and still had some gear left. It still has 6th gear also. It was a constant acceleration all the way as you can see. This car will easily go well over 200 mph if you are crazy enough and have the stomach for it."
It seems no one but the police were impressed. Neither were any customers, as no one seemed to pay his asking price of $26,000. The highest bid was $15,000. The Corvette did not sell, but the police did get Replogle for two counts of reckless driving. Because a car can go 195 mph does not mean anyone with a brain would not want the car after he pushed it like that. No sale!
Moonbeam
#50
Oklahoma Man Arrested for Driving 195 MPH (Video)
December 26, 2010 07:45 PM EST
views: 380 | comments: 3
Police arrested an Oklahoma man who drove 195 mph on the Kilpatrick Turnpike in OKC in his Corvette. He then posted his feat on a YouTube video. The stupid criminal award goes to this man, but don't forget to give him credit for salesmanship. He listed the car on eBay Motors, so he was showing what his Corvette could do.
Of course anyone with any knowledge of the car could have figured it out for himself or herself without this perpetrator of a deadly stunt showing it on a YouTube video. As the video shows, other drivers simply get out of his way, but it's Christmas time, and in the video you can see him passing a mall off to the right on the north side of the turnpike.
Oklahoma
Cody Replogle who is a 30-year-old Oklahoma man posted this brilliant video for all to see including the Oklahoma police who promptly arrested Replogle. How about giving this guy a good grade for not killing anyone, and a failing grade for brains? Can you imagine what would have happened if someone did not get out of his way at 195 mph?
Corvette
According to Yahoo, Replogle says, "This one is getting onto the turnpike and climing [sic] over 195+ mph. I was in 5th gear and still had some gear left. It still has 6th gear also. It was a constant acceleration all the way as you can see. This car will easily go well over 200 mph if you are crazy enough and have the stomach for it."
It seems no one but the police were impressed. Neither were any customers, as no one seemed to pay his asking price of $26,000. The highest bid was $15,000. The Corvette did not sell, but the police did get Replogle for two counts of reckless driving. Because a car can go 195 mph does not mean anyone with a brain would not want the car after he pushed it like that. No sale!
Moonbeam
#50
bodell
New Member
If the gloves, boots, suit, and helmet don’t fit, you must acquit!
Actually they do fit, and that is a pretty exact body description match.
So, Mr. Barnes, if this was not you in the video, who is it?
When exactly did your bike and all this gear go missing, Mr. Barnes?
Where exactly were you when your bike was missing, and who was with you to corroborate this alibi?
Did you notify the police that your vehicle was missing?
Why didn’t you notify the police that your bike was missing?
When was the bike and gear returned, Mr. Barnes?
Who returned the bike and gear?
etc.
etc.
etc.
Imagine yourself as a member of the jury.
Now imagine the old lady sitting beside you watching this video.
She has lived in that county for over 40 years.
Do you think she has ever heard of the crazy motorcycle guys at the Gap?
What answers to those questions above are going to make her overlook the film?
What answers to the questions above would cause REASONABLE doubt?
Like I said,
Not a prayers chance in trial.
PS This applies to all those involved with the filming and editing of the video too. All stories would have to match and survive investigation.
Actually they do fit, and that is a pretty exact body description match.
So, Mr. Barnes, if this was not you in the video, who is it?
When exactly did your bike and all this gear go missing, Mr. Barnes?
Where exactly were you when your bike was missing, and who was with you to corroborate this alibi?
Did you notify the police that your vehicle was missing?
Why didn’t you notify the police that your bike was missing?
When was the bike and gear returned, Mr. Barnes?
Who returned the bike and gear?
etc.
etc.
etc.
Imagine yourself as a member of the jury.
Now imagine the old lady sitting beside you watching this video.
She has lived in that county for over 40 years.
Do you think she has ever heard of the crazy motorcycle guys at the Gap?
What answers to those questions above are going to make her overlook the film?
What answers to the questions above would cause REASONABLE doubt?
Like I said,
Not a prayers chance in trial.
PS This applies to all those involved with the filming and editing of the video too. All stories would have to match and survive investigation.
rk97
Member
Sounds like you know a ton about trial law.
Not all of your claims are without merit, but things like the little old lady who hates motorcycles just wouldn't happen with a decent attorney. Jury selection would eliminate it. Several of those questions would draw valid objections, and the rest could easily be addressed on redirect, or with other witnesses - like an expert that would tell you how many thousand of that A* suit have been sold, and how many thousand Arai helmets of that style have been sold, and another who will testify how many motorcyclists visit Deal's Gap each year.
practically speaking, with enough money spent, I am 99% confident this guy would walk if it went to trial - he just wouldn't want to spend that much when a deal is going to be a lot cheaper.
But to even get to the deal, you're expecting detectives to spend a lot of time and effort hunting down 1 rider with a video camera, when they can catch 20+ a day without investing any comparable time and effort.
it's a numbers game; or rather, a dollars game FROM THE START, not just once you get to trial.
The Oklahoma guy with a Corvette isn't a fair comparison unless that stretch of highway gets thousands of tourists a year coming for the explicit purpose of speeding there. The OK highway patrol is jumping at a chance to make an example of 1 guy, and take a bunch of his money. How often do you think they get people doing 195mph? Now how often do you think people grossly exceed the speed limit at the gap?
Again, a numbers game.
Not all of your claims are without merit, but things like the little old lady who hates motorcycles just wouldn't happen with a decent attorney. Jury selection would eliminate it. Several of those questions would draw valid objections, and the rest could easily be addressed on redirect, or with other witnesses - like an expert that would tell you how many thousand of that A* suit have been sold, and how many thousand Arai helmets of that style have been sold, and another who will testify how many motorcyclists visit Deal's Gap each year.
practically speaking, with enough money spent, I am 99% confident this guy would walk if it went to trial - he just wouldn't want to spend that much when a deal is going to be a lot cheaper.
But to even get to the deal, you're expecting detectives to spend a lot of time and effort hunting down 1 rider with a video camera, when they can catch 20+ a day without investing any comparable time and effort.
it's a numbers game; or rather, a dollars game FROM THE START, not just once you get to trial.
The Oklahoma guy with a Corvette isn't a fair comparison unless that stretch of highway gets thousands of tourists a year coming for the explicit purpose of speeding there. The OK highway patrol is jumping at a chance to make an example of 1 guy, and take a bunch of his money. How often do you think they get people doing 195mph? Now how often do you think people grossly exceed the speed limit at the gap?
Again, a numbers game.
bodell
New Member
I agree.
Nailing this guy will send a message to all the viewers of this board, WERA board, East TennRiders board, the local news, and the 10,000 that have viewed it on YouTube. This guy is giving them a chance to make an example of him to the largest niche demographic possible. In other words, it would be easy for them to send a message with all of us listening.
BTW. It is the DA who would do the footwork, not the police. The DA has manpower and authority along with the longing for the type of exposure that helps politically. This would be a PR feast for him.
I could outline the prosecution’s case in less than an hour. All of the evidence would be gathered with phone calls and email.
It is the defense’s case that would be burdensome, if not impossible.
I bet something will come of this. Every other YouTube video did. It may fall between the cracks, but if it goes to court, he will make a deal.
I forgot to mention that this is a 2 state crime. He could stand twice. NC and TN