Do you think race tires mask problems?

[undrlord]

I can probably guess even before I put this out here what the responses will be but I will do it anyway.

I am running the DC3's right now. I was at Barber this past weekend running a pretty good pace (my definition of a good pace so far at Barber is high to mid 1:40's). Basically I ended up lowsiding in turn 2. I am not sure if I was pushing the tire to hard in that turn or if I had the bike to low in a lean angle and just lost the edge.

At what point do you know when you need to step up to a better tire for what you are trying to do with it? If I go with a race tire I just think that I would be putting a bandaide on some other problem that I might be having. I have also heard from you guys that the DC3 should and has lasted guys into the advanced level.

Give me some pointers out there please.

 

[jimgl3]

big fat mouth

i'm keeping my big fat mouth shut! :shutit:

(hold your applause)

 

[Dezy]

Are those 1:40.xx's or 1:4x's? I think first you need to understand what caused that crash. Next if the tires didn't give you any warning I doubt they were the cause. I say you should have noticed the tire not preforming (physically and visually) and that would be an indicator that you needed get some better rubber. Just a note if you got into some of that T-2 sealer mid track on a really hot day you could have a moment.

I have had the DC# down to 1:40.30's at Barber and don't think the front can take 12 laps at that pace before dumping you in T-5. On SC pros I do 1:39's and never feel the front is touch and go.

 

[undrlord]

Those would be like 1:46's to 1:48's. It is more of a possibility that I have poor body position and had the bike leaned to much for the angle and speed.

I know most of the answers to this question is more seat time and I get that but it starts to get discouraging when after you wreck you don't want to push as hard because you don't want to do it again.

I had a cam on the bike at the time and when I keep watching it just looks as though it just slides away from me. I am by no means blaming any of this on the tires at all. I love these tires and ya'll say they last that long then it is probably totally me.

 

[Dezy]

Well if some DOT race tires will give you the extra comfort and confidence then get em. I am quite sure I have more crap on my bike than I REALLY need but it makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside when I touch it. Hell do what ever it takes. Confidence is 90% of the game.

 

[undrlord]

Man that is the truth. I didn't want to get new tires just to hide other issues that I might be having. I want to get better period but I know that takes time, effort and money. Right now I only have the effort part going for me =)

 

[jbraslins]

Better body position will not only result in less lean angle at the same pace but also more relaxed grip on the clip-ons. A while back I always felt like iwas about to low-side in corners. Always felt like front was pushing. As soon as i started to get off the bike more, lean forward and down, bend the elbows, relax arms and loosen that grip on the bars, bike started to navigate the same corners a ton better. It seems like front was now finally able to do what it needed instead of supporting my weight.

Get the best tires you can afford. It will greatly improve your confidence and let you focus on your riding instead on your tires. You'll go through a ton more SCs then DC3s. They wear out a lot faster.

 

[gsxrida1980]

this has been my eternal question

 

[Rick Johnson]

I've heard to DC3's are a good tire and some A guys run them but me personally I run the SCP's and Diablo's.For me it worth the extra money knowing they offer better grip.Did you give them a few laps to warm up?Look back at your video to see if maybe you lowsided while going across the sealer.It you don't have them, tire warmers are great to have.I know we haven't talked in awhile I have a 05 R6 now also.It's really starting to help me with my cornerspeed.Ask one of the CR's to follow you your next TD and let you know how your form is.Good luck!Sorry to hear you went down.:doh:

 

[undrlord]

The only hold back about going with SC's is that I still ride on the street a bit since I can't afford to go to the track twice a month. And I don't want to buy another set of rims just to keep race tires on either.

 

[D-Zum]

Were the tires you low-sided on new or did they have 4 days on them with 2,000 street miles on top of that because you still ride the street on that bike?

With the bike/tires pulling double duty it's going to be hard to best monitor their wear rate or "life span" of usability for the track.

Finding another set of rims might not be a horrible idea. Have one set of wheels with track day rubber on, and another set for street riding. It has to be cheaper than repairs and the ding to your confidence.

CR Barry38 runs DC3's or has on the past. I've read where he got over 40 sessions out of a set, and he's pretty darned fast. I've also seen them on Brian Johnson's R6 as well.

Lots of factors play into tire life. What works for some, doesn't for others. I ran DC3's and slicks last year just to try them out. Yeah, I know completely different ends of the spectrum. I didn't notice all that much difference, except the slicks were a lot more sensitive to suspension setup. I'm back on the DC3's and I'm quite happy with them. Probably my favorite tire of all time to be honest.

 

[gsxrida1980]

I run the DC3's as well. Great tire.

Not to thread jack (because this relates), but how often do you guys change the front DC3? My rear is worn and my front looks good for another couple days as is typical. I wouldn't feel comfortable using 1 front for two full rears. Also, I would worry that the front would be more cooked than a fresh rear which would surely play in my mind.

Do you replace both together every time or what is the ratio you change front to rear?

 

[D-Zum]

I err on the side of caution. I replace front and rear together. Even though the front's tread looks fine, I get concerned about heat cycles.

 

[Dezy]

I don't think your going to over heat cycle that tire doing just trackdays. 2-1 and change based on wear.

 

[gsxrida1980]

these are the two sides of the spectrum I'm stuck between :banghead:

 

[Rhino]

Last year i was changing 1 front every 2 rears ... Then on day 7 of the front, an unnammed CR at an unnammed track in Ohio took my bike out and lowsided with no warning. :saythat: Freak accident, cold tire, suspension set-up, something on the track ... who knows, but since then i have changed the front with the rear .... probably more superstition than anything else, but it keeps me feeling warm and fuzzy. Besides the front tire costs alot less that plastics and hard parts!

 

[gsxrida1980]

this is the way I'm leaning Rhino.

hey you live in Mount Airy, MD? I lived in Frederick for 5+ years. Just moved down to Boyds

 

[sasrocks]

I run 2:1 rear: front on DOTs and have no problems. you can tell when the front tire starts pushing its getting time to replace. Like everything it depends on your pace and a bunch of other variables.

 

[undrlord]

D-Zum;1434 wrote: Were the tires you low-sided on new or did they have 4 days on them with 2,000 street miles on top of that because you still ride the street on that bike?

With the bike/tires pulling double duty it's going to be hard to best monitor their wear rate or "life span" of usability for the track.

Finding another set of rims might not be a horrible idea. Have one set of wheels with track day rubber on, and another set for street riding. It has to be cheaper than repairs and the ding to your confidence.

CR Barry38 runs DC3's or has on the past. I've read where he got over 40 sessions out of a set, and he's pretty darned fast. I've also seen them on Brian Johnson's R6 as well.

Lots of factors play into tire life. What works for some, doesn't for others. I ran DC3's and slicks last year just to try them out. Yeah, I know completely different ends of the spectrum. I didn't notice all that much difference, except the slicks were a lot more sensitive to suspension setup. I'm back on the DC3's and I'm quite happy with them. Probably my favorite tire of all time to be honest.

I would say that is about right. 5th trackday and roughly 2k street miles....maybe not even that much on the street.

Here is a link to the video i had rolling when i crashed. if you notice on about the 2nd lap coming over the bridge i almost bit it there with a nice high side but i managed to save it. Maybe this is an issue of the tires not being up to temp?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PT5simSyz0w

 

[Motomoon]

YES I think they mask problems and give to many riders a sense of false security. If your doing something wrong now you will do it wrong at a faster pace generally with more wreckless abandon.

I saw riders at the last SED day at Beaver that I wouldn't even get close to. The bike was saving their butts and they where outta control.

The DC3 will easily do those times at Barber... and some

I sell tires so hey if a guy wants to spend 400.00 vs. 270.00 then that is his choice. Now if he ask me what I think the best bang for the buck is I will point him to the DC3. I have seen riders in the B group buy Diablo Supercorsas and crash on them at a speed a street tire could easily handle..Race tires don't a racer make. They have demands that a track tire doesn't

Crashing sucks and I understand your afraid to have it happen again..Please don't slap on race rubber and go out thinking that will fix the problem...Adjust your riding...be extra smooth and work your way back to where you were. You might just find out that in the end, doing this will make you faster then before. It just takes time and patience...

On a side note, maybe leave the laptimer at home..I think they make more people crash then most anything else Go have fun.