My trackday with SBTT Sunday...
- Thread starter bodell
- Start date
Speed_Demon
New Member
So crashes in advanced means people got bumped too early? I've heard a lot of complaints about how difficult it is to get bumped with NESBA. A friend of mine tells a story of when he was stuck in intermediate passing every other rider on the track at will except one. Even the CR's were slower. When a CR tried following him to evaluate him for bump, the CR crashed out. Crashes happen plain and simple. Some weekends are worse that others for a mutitude of reasons but I don't think it has much, if anything, to do with bump policy/procedure. I have yet to have an oportunity to ride at a NESBA event (I had to cancel one and they cancelled another) but I did Road Atlanta with STT. Every group has riders that don't belong there. They are either too slow/unskilled or just plain too fast. I know there are some people who exclusively ride with one organization or another, but I'll ride with whoever has the track I want at the time I can do it. I'm not going to hate on any of them. I appreciate what they do for us.
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bodell
New Member
Once you do a NESBA event, you will gain perspective in the advantages in the difference between how these orgs are run.
You are correct that at an SBTT event, "Every group has riders that don't belong there", but not so much at NESBA.
I "appreciate" NESBA's bump system. I make fun of SBTT's lack of one. My words here may be spiteful, but are not dangerous. What went on at CMP this past weekend was dangerous, and in my opinion, negligent on the part of whoever made SBTT's policy.
Hopefully some one will wake up over there and reaolize that this is the #1 conversation in the paddock during their events.
Crashes do happen.......even with highly skilled riders......but they happen more often when riders ride above their skill level or treat a track day as a race when everyone else is in track day mode.
We've all seen riders who are really fast but don't "play well with others". They tend to feel that they're "entitled" to be bumped based on self evaluation. I know from experience that the Nesba A riders got there by demonstrating that they're both fast and can be trusted to play by the rules for everyone's safety. I ride with other organizations regularly and I've seen what happens when riders are allowed to just pick the group they want to ride in without proving they have the skills and required respect for the rules and other riders.
I'm thankful that there are other organizations to choose from.....they support our sport and give us choices......but they're not all equal.
We've all seen riders who are really fast but don't "play well with others". They tend to feel that they're "entitled" to be bumped based on self evaluation. I know from experience that the Nesba A riders got there by demonstrating that they're both fast and can be trusted to play by the rules for everyone's safety. I ride with other organizations regularly and I've seen what happens when riders are allowed to just pick the group they want to ride in without proving they have the skills and required respect for the rules and other riders.
I'm thankful that there are other organizations to choose from.....they support our sport and give us choices......but they're not all equal.
j_fuggin_t
Member
C'mon now.. our system is different and it works for us, and their system is different and works for them, i don't blame the org, i blame the riders that place themselves in a group thats above their talent level. Crashes do happen and thats a fact. People do complain about our bump system alot, but once they do get their bump they realize very quickly why it is that way. Does it turn ppl away? you betcha, one of my good friends plain out refuses to come ride with us because he can't sign up in advanced and doesn't want to earn his way in there (and i've told him he's not ready for advanced, as his lines are sloppy, b/p isn't quite there etc..) I've ridden with STT up here and the guys are great, are there ppl in there that shouldn't be? most likely but WE as a nesba advanced rider should be able to overcome that and keep ourselves out of harm.
Its unfortunate that there were alot of crashes, because frankly i don't like to hear about guys going down on the track period. Don't blame the org Bodell blame the ppl that can't humble themselves enough to place themselves in the correct group.
Its unfortunate that there were alot of crashes, because frankly i don't like to hear about guys going down on the track period. Don't blame the org Bodell blame the ppl that can't humble themselves enough to place themselves in the correct group.
j_fuggin_t
Member
I know what you mean, but still at the end of the day its the riders decision to sign up for I or A, before i was in
i never once thought about signing up for A group, but to me i have the common sense to know better
Speed_Demon
New Member
@bodell
I completely understand your complaints and respect your point of view. I don't, however think that comparing CCS/WERA expert vs novice to somebody who belongs in intermediate but signs up for advanced.
Extreme closing speeds are dangerous, and I will never dispute that. Did you approach the CRs and ask them to check out those riders that shouldn't be in advanced? Did you speak with or email the regional director about your concerns? The policies of the organization are worthless is the CONTROL Riders aren't doing their job. Since I've never ridden with NESBA I can't speak from experience, but I know people who CR at various places that treat track days like free open practice and don't fulfill their duties. These issues should be elevated so they can improve.
If you've done all of that, thank you for making the sport better for all of us.
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I completely understand your complaints and respect your point of view. I don't, however think that comparing CCS/WERA expert vs novice to somebody who belongs in intermediate but signs up for advanced.
Extreme closing speeds are dangerous, and I will never dispute that. Did you approach the CRs and ask them to check out those riders that shouldn't be in advanced? Did you speak with or email the regional director about your concerns? The policies of the organization are worthless is the CONTROL Riders aren't doing their job. Since I've never ridden with NESBA I can't speak from experience, but I know people who CR at various places that treat track days like free open practice and don't fulfill their duties. These issues should be elevated so they can improve.
If you've done all of that, thank you for making the sport better for all of us.
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noobinacan
Member
Speed Demon
I don't think yours or my opinion will count in this thread because we have not ridden with both orgs.
But, letting people self evaluate themselves doesn't work. in any aspect or field.
Did we self evaluate ourselves in School ? Do we self eval at our jobs ? list goes on.
So why let people self evaluate in a sport that's dangerous as this?
Ego will always get in the way and lead to most people to put the 'A' sticker on their bike.
Nexus
New Member
I've ridden both NESBA and STT (not SBTT). Both are great trackday orgs and both have their issues.
To start this thread is just opening another can of worms of NESBA vs STT. Truth is around here NESBA guys and CRs ride with STT at times and STT members and coaches ride with NESBA. Heck and both of them ride Motovid LOL
To start this thread is just opening another can of worms of NESBA vs STT. Truth is around here NESBA guys and CRs ride with STT at times and STT members and coaches ride with NESBA. Heck and both of them ride Motovid LOL
JRA
New Member
Guys, first any organization can (and will) have a bad day where there are numerous crashes. You could easily have come away from recent NESBA events saying what a crashfest, we had a life flight, and our policies don't work, or whatever else happened that put a dent in your fun.
Multiple crashes don't mean that STT's policies don't work, it just means they had a bad day. We all have the occasional bad day, and I feel for anybody running an event who is having that experience. Regarding their policies I think they do work quite well...for them. Our policies are different obviously, and they work quite well for us. If everybody had the exact same policies and procedures you wouldn't really have very many choices as riders would you?
Brad, you didn't like what you experienced and I get that and you like the way we do things better, but for everyone who likes NESBA better there is another guy who likes STT better; this is a pointless, endless circle...its always been this way and always will be as long as we are both around. I'm glad they are there to provide an alternative to the people who just don't like the way we do things and they probably feel the same about us. The way it is now you can choose the organization that you feel most comfortable with and ride only with them; many riders do this. We also have many riders who like us both and ride with both.
NESBA gets bashed constantly on the interwebs for numerous reasons. Most of them based on a person's experience, that while valid to them, usually doesn't tell the real story (probably what we have here). As directors and staff we rarely engage these people because you just can't win that type of argument and it just keeps things going and going. It doesn't mean we like it, it just means we aren't going to engage in an internet argument that we can't win. That's what is being set up here, an internet argument over who is better STT or NESBA, and neither NESBA or STT will win if this turns into a drama thread. I'm not going to allow that to happen so keep that in mind.
I'm going to say again, we both have our place. If you don't agree with a policy don't ride with that organization if you feel strongly enough.
Multiple crashes don't mean that STT's policies don't work, it just means they had a bad day. We all have the occasional bad day, and I feel for anybody running an event who is having that experience. Regarding their policies I think they do work quite well...for them. Our policies are different obviously, and they work quite well for us. If everybody had the exact same policies and procedures you wouldn't really have very many choices as riders would you?
Brad, you didn't like what you experienced and I get that and you like the way we do things better, but for everyone who likes NESBA better there is another guy who likes STT better; this is a pointless, endless circle...its always been this way and always will be as long as we are both around. I'm glad they are there to provide an alternative to the people who just don't like the way we do things and they probably feel the same about us. The way it is now you can choose the organization that you feel most comfortable with and ride only with them; many riders do this. We also have many riders who like us both and ride with both.
NESBA gets bashed constantly on the interwebs for numerous reasons. Most of them based on a person's experience, that while valid to them, usually doesn't tell the real story (probably what we have here). As directors and staff we rarely engage these people because you just can't win that type of argument and it just keeps things going and going. It doesn't mean we like it, it just means we aren't going to engage in an internet argument that we can't win. That's what is being set up here, an internet argument over who is better STT or NESBA, and neither NESBA or STT will win if this turns into a drama thread. I'm not going to allow that to happen so keep that in mind.
I'm going to say again, we both have our place. If you don't agree with a policy don't ride with that organization if you feel strongly enough.
Bubba Zanetti
Member
Thanks for killing a potentially entertaining thread JRA 
!
You are right that these threads go round and round, but their is someting to be said if the management of a trackday organization is having a 'bad day', but fail to take any action just like the rider whose sence of self-evaluation is a little bit skewed due to large amounts of time living in fantasy land.
Two of my favorite stories invole NESBA and TPM (the TPM story is from a friend, I still have only ridden with NESBA). NESBA day at NJMP was a bad day. CR's dropped the hammer hard on the whole group in question, the day cleaned up and everyone had fun. TPM day at NJMP, their CR's/ Managment had enough and dropped the hammer, the day cleaned up and everyone had fun.
I respect any organization that will throw people out, sit a whole group out and/ or shut down a day if it is getting unmanagable due to knuckleheads. Bodell is right... its a trackday.
BZ
!You are right that these threads go round and round, but their is someting to be said if the management of a trackday organization is having a 'bad day', but fail to take any action just like the rider whose sence of self-evaluation is a little bit skewed due to large amounts of time living in fantasy land.
Two of my favorite stories invole NESBA and TPM (the TPM story is from a friend, I still have only ridden with NESBA). NESBA day at NJMP was a bad day. CR's dropped the hammer hard on the whole group in question, the day cleaned up and everyone had fun. TPM day at NJMP, their CR's/ Managment had enough and dropped the hammer, the day cleaned up and everyone had fun.
I respect any organization that will throw people out, sit a whole group out and/ or shut down a day if it is getting unmanagable due to knuckleheads. Bodell is right... its a trackday.
BZ
j_fuggin_t
Member
Well said JRA.
dj life
New Member
The one thing I noticed with riding with a few different orgs is the fact of if you're a A rider in Nesba you can pretty much just sign up for advanced group... The reason I mention this is cause they all know the level of Nesba's A riders.. If you think about that, that means a lot! I definitely think that Nesba's way of bumping people up is the right way to do it. If I ride with another org and they say I have to be evaluated I really don't have a problem with that.