Road A Back Straight Speed I group.

[AU_R1]

So I seem to have pissed a STT member off after blogging about STT I group riders letting off too much on the back straight at Road A. More or less my statement was that if you're not comfortable dropping the hammer in a straight line and through the kink you should probably think twice about riding in I group. I'm not talking about just letting off a bit through the kink, I'm talking Sunday riding down the back straight. Am I a huge dick?

 

[vanbreezy]

what do your friends think?:dunno:

 

[JRA]

Let it go...I saw the thread and I know the guy you are bickering with very well. STT allows riders to place themselves in whatever group they want. This means that you are going to have a wide variety of skills in the Intermediate and Advance groups. I think riders with track experience hesitate to sign up for their novice group because it's so structured and the pace is generally slow. This means that the I group over there is really a mix of B and I. You can't really complain about the rules of the other organization because you knew what they were upfront, and if you didn't you should have.

This riders wife paid her money just like you did and has the right to ride wherever she wants as long as it's not a safety issue. It's not your responsibility to decide if it's a safety issue though, that's the job of the STT staff. It is your responsibility to pass her safely and courteously. This is true with every organization, and you should give all riders this courtesy.

I do think this is a great example of the differences between the two clubs, and it illustrates why it's great to have choices. If a rider doesn't like the disparity in skills in another clubs Intermediate group they can come ride with us where the riders are more equal. If a rider doesn't like the fact that they have to be bumped to I group or A group with us they can go ride with another club that will allow them to sign up for whatever they want.

Everyone has lots of choices in the track day world and sometimes you have sample some of those choices to really see the differences.

 

[Mr.DJ]

:agree:

 

[sheepofblue]

I went to RA on the RC once with a 15-41 and would get into the limiter in 6th when at full lean in the kink. My solution for the day was to slightly roll off at the kink then roll back on as I stood it up to the brake point. Of course the final solution was to get more gears The other thing is that closing speeds on smaller bikes can get real hairy there so if I spot one that I am going to be coming onto at a huge delta I back off just a hair. Of course I am slow and old (but still around after 40+ years of people predicting 'those things' are going to kill me) opcorn:

Oh and if they are predictable why do you care? wouldn't it make them easier to pass? Or would you rather they do the Gixxer dance down the straight and then park it like they are going to the movies in 10 a/b?

Oh and there was one time I was letting off before the kink and keeping it off a bit. Ever notice the treeline ends at the kink? Try catching a 30MPH side gust as 150+ :wow: The first time I was suddenly 2-3 feet over was an experience

EDIT OK one last edit. As to the other comments I have found as someone stated that speed varies more weekend to weekend than org to org (mine in included). I have seen many great jobs from control riders and a few bad ones. I actually have video of a control rider coming up the inside of #5 at Barber backing it in WAY to hard. I had to stand it up a bit and stayed on the brakes which was great since the guy he was towing came through with a lot less control soon after in the extra gap I left for the CR to get things sorted. The CR never gave a wave or a sorry later (which is OK since it was actually cool to watch) and the other rider did come by and give a sorry about that later. No harm but an example of how NONE of us are perfect we just try to be.

 

[rk97]

dick-ness is largely dependent upon how you phrased your complaint, and to whom it was voiced.

unless STT has a time machine, I think the "talk to us at the track, not on the BBS" rule applies with them as well.

dependent on your tone, I don't think raising a safety concern makes you a dick - but it will get you into a debate about what is 'safe.'

 

[HondaGalToo]

I think telling the guy to go f*** himself when he wrote a non-inflammatory response to your opinion qualifies you as a dick, yes.

 

[jas0336]

I dont know if you're a dick...you've seemed pretty decent to me on here and at the track.
However, I think people who ride track days get upset or offended about a couple of things...
1) If you offer up "I got bumped". No matter how you intend it or whatever context it is mentioned people seem to take it as bragging. This of course is after you thank the CR who helped you and bumped you.
2) If you comment on how slow a person or group is. Kinda like #1, if they are slow you must be fast...people assume you are bragging as well as condescending. I'm not saying any of your comments were this way. This is just my observation.
3) comparing different orgs. People who are regulars with NESBA are typically loyal to NESBA. People who are regulars with STT or TPM or Elite or whoever else, are typically loyal to those groups. People have their own reasons for riding with the group they ride with. So they dont want you to come on the STT board and say their group is slow or anything else negative. Just like most of NESBA bows up when someone says something negative about us.
4) the forums are great for communicating and catching up with friends who ride or talking with new friends we meet at the track. But on the forum, you cannot see someones face or hear their inflection when they say something. You don't get the full meaning if you don't hear their tone. So while your comments were probably intended innocently enough and you were most likely trying to offer some constructive criticism, people miss the meaning by reading the words.

My opinion is, group is not group everywhere you go. So if you choose to ride with other groups you have to deal with it. As for the speed differential in places like the back straight at RA and the early braking entering 12...that's part of riding on the track. It shouldn't hold you up if someone is slow on a straight and if they brake way early entering 12, you have another long straight followed by an uphill high-speed sweeper. You should be able to get around without incident and they should be able to learn and ride at their own pace.

 

[HondaGalToo]

Agree with Josh, and JRA. Wasn't calling you a dick, you just got really defensive to that other guy's opinion. The two orgs are different, and you will see different policies and such with each. As long as riders are predictable and have good lines, etc., they're fine in I, even if they're slower on the straights.

 

[weber]

If I get a good drive off of turn 7, stay tucked and keep it pinned all the way till just about the last braking marker before 10a, I can almost break 130 mph.

 

[stow]

weber;64330 wrote: If I get a good drive off of turn 7, stay tucked and keep it pinned all the way till just about the last braking marker before 10a, I can almost break 130 mph.

Yeah, but you end up missing 10a every time you try. :moon:

 

[AU_R1]

I think it's mostly a case of not being able to read people's true emotions on a forum. The original comment I made was meant to be pretty casual. A lot of riders WERE going much slower on the back straight then they could be. I pointed it out and made my suggestion. I didn't tell anyone they should drop down a group if the don't want to ride the same way I do. To me it seemed the guy felt the need to defend his wife's ability to ride in I group, something I didn't challenge to begin with. I read his response as being condescending and it pissed me off. Hence the go f*** yourself. I don't like being talked down to. If I really wanted to be a dick I would have attacked the guy personally, but that was not my intention. I was in no way trying to tell STT how to separate their groups. Notice I didn't once say anything along those lines. Honestly, even if I thought STT or NESBA was a POS org and hated everyone associated with either one [which is certanly not the case] I'd still ride with both because riding is the most important thing to me.

Edit: Having a highly competitive personality I can't imagine I'd have near as much fun riding in a group where I consistently got passed like I was standing still. Hence the reason I don't sign up for A group with STT and presently have to desire to be bumped with NESBA. That is pretty much the totality of my reasoning for starting this whole shebang. I suppose that declaring that anyone who doesn't have the gonads to pin it all the way down the back straight shouldn't be in I group might not have been the best idea. I can't bring myself to say that anyone riding in I group shouldn't at least have the desire to get to a point where they can.

 

[Folly1]

HondaGalToo;64271 wrote: I think telling the guy to go f*** himself when he wrote a non-inflammatory response to your opinion qualifies you as a dick, yes.

Judy,

I think he spotted you this answer. He wanted to know if he was a HUGH Richard!. lol.

I've met him. He's not. He is just a Marine and they come across like that a lot.

AU, seriously, thank you for your service.

I agree with the later post that the net is a poor place to communicate anything more subtle than a phone number, or maybe a lap time.

Ben.

 

[Meat]

Folly1;64358 wrote:
I agree with the later post that the net is a poor place to communicate anything more subtle than a phone number, or maybe a lap time.

And when you tell your lap times, you lie to people that don't know you. These are forum things it has taken me awhile to learn. ;-)

 

[weber]

AU_R1;64355 wrote: I'd still ride with both because the people are the most important thing to me.

Fixed it for ya.

Just giving you a hard time. You should have heard me bitch about wanting to get out of the I group. Then they put me in A group and suddenly I realized this ain't no schoolyard playground! But no matter the group, everyone out there deserves his or her space. One of the most important challenges at track days that often gets overlooked is closing speed differences (trust me, I know from the slow guy's perspective). Learn to plot trajectories of others and overlay them onto yours in your "vision" of the track. Even in a group of very fast racers, there can always be someone off the pace for whatever reason.

 

[weber]

stow;64349 wrote: Yeah, but you end up missing 10a every time you try. :moon:

Hey, I resemble that!

:notsure:

 

[HondaGalToo]

Folly1;64358 wrote: Judy,

I think he spotted you this answer. He wanted to know if he was a HUGH Richard!. lol.

I've met him. He's not. He is just a Marine and they come across like that a lot.

AU, seriously, thank you for your service.

I agree with the later post that the net is a poor place to communicate anything more subtle than a phone number, or maybe a lap time.

Ben.

Gotcha, Ben. Yup, hard to read into what exactly someone means on a forum. AU, thanks for your service.

 

[AU_R1]

Double post.

 

[weber]

AU_R1;64355 wrote: I can't imagine I'd have near as much fun riding in a group where I consistently got passed like I was standing still.

Don't underestimate it.



:argh:

 

[AU_R1]

Folly1;64358 wrote:
I've met him. He's not. He is just a Marine and they come across like that a lot.
Ben.

Guilty as charged. I promise I'm actually very nice, I just come off like a dick sometimes. That's how I earned the nickname "Sgt. Angery".