The search for I group status

[1bad7]

Just my .02 Having been with Nesba for a year now, I can tell you that they are the best Org I've ridden with. Having spent the last 7 years before that in Europe, I had a bit of culture(rule if you will) shock, as it's pretty close to anything goes as far as skill level goes over there, hell I even rode on Misano with Biaocco when he was there with the big Ohlins truck testing suspension(totally got smoked after T5 on the old configuration).

Anyway, the whole time I have ridden with them at both tracks in Jersey and both South and full at VIR, I've only jumped in behind a control rider twice. I figure I still have a lot to learn to get to A so I just ride to the best of my ability and try to learn something new everytime I go out. Bottom line is that I don't obsess about it. Hell if I can't figure something out by myself, I'll either jump in behind a CR or go ask after the session is over and then apply what they tell me. Besides I'm having so much fun in I right now due to having to figure out passing ops that it is really worth all the tires I go through and the funds spent at the track.

Enjoy and welcome to the addiction!

 

[1bad7]

I am the ultimate thread killer!!! every post I make is the last for that thread, so if you want a thread killed just request my services and it shall be done. That is all, you may now go back to your regularly scheduled lives....LOL

 

[rk97]

Kegger;166753 wrote: +1 I dont think Ive ever "not had fun" in any group!

that's when i KNOW i'm doing something wrong.

But there were definitely some days in "B" where I was frustrated by the fact that I didn't have the skill to make passes where I wanted to.

Any time I'm getting angry inside my helmet, I pit in. Making impulsive decisions at 100mph just isn't smart, and slowing down is easier than calming down sometimes. Reminding myself that i'm at the track with the sole purpose of enjoying myself helps though. It's just not worth the stress.

One rain-soaked and cold day, a group of us decided poker and beers would be more fun than riding in the miserably conditions. we COULD have ridden, but we're there to have fun; so we did

 

[trickyricky]

1bad7;166948 wrote: I am the ultimate thread killer!!! every post I make is the last for that thread, so if you want a thread killed just request my services and it shall be done. That is all, you may now go back to your regularly scheduled lives....LOL

I thought that I was the only one with those special powers! Grazie mille! Tutto 'posto per 2011??

 

[Godfather]

I find it impossible to do mid 40's when you are following a 20 bike train under the Oak Tree in first gear. I probably couldn't do mid 40's on a 2010 R1 either! HA HA!! I'm still in B group also, and I'm not sure how to move up!

R/ Mike Godfather Beard

 

[AU_R1]

OK who was at the VIR SED day in I group last year. There was a great quote related to this. Something about if you're going balls to the wall every lap and making good lap times you're not going to get a bump. They're looking for consistency and a rider that doesn't have to go 100% every lap to make good times. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast, all that jazz.

The best advice I can give is don't "look" for a bump. If you're having a hella good time riding at the front of the B group all day, feeling all cool and cocky cause you're the bad ass passing every bike in sight, enjoy it. They'll find you soon enough and you have to go back to being the slow guy again when you get to the next group.

 

[S3aturnR]

AU_R1;171355 wrote: If you're having a hella good time riding at the front of the B group all day, feeling all cool and cocky cause you're the bad ass passing every bike in sight, enjoy it. They'll find you soon enough and you have to go back to being the slow guy again when you get to the next group.

my thoughts exactly...


s3aturnr

 

[madriders86]

Godfather;171338 wrote: I find it impossible to do mid 40's when you are following a 20 bike train under the Oak Tree in first gear. I probably couldn't do mid 40's on a 2010 R1 either! HA HA!! I'm still in B group also, and I'm not sure how to move up!

R/ Mike Godfather Beard
My suggestion would be a track bike of a smaller displacement. A 600, or smaller if your ego will allow.

AU_R1;171355 wrote: If you're having a hella good time riding at the front of the B group all day, feeling all cool and cocky cause you're the bad ass passing every bike in sight, enjoy it. They'll find you soon enough and you have to go back to being the slow guy again when you get to the next group.

Quoted for truth.

 

[seatec]

Wow, great thread! I rode wiht NESBA lat year at Barber for the first time. Having done some TD's before then, I can honestly tell you that NESBA CR's are very good if not the best.

I never felt nervous around them when they popped up in front of me and tapped the tail. It never felt that i didnt know what to do when the CR would pass somebody and i didnt have time to push thru without compromising the rider in front of me. They will wait for you if they are not done with you yet.

Can't wait to do it all again in April @ Barber.

 

[Kegger]

AU_R1;171355 wrote:
The best advice I can give is don't "look" for a bump. If you're having a hella good time riding at the front of the B group all day, feeling all cool and cocky cause you're the bad ass passing every bike in sight, enjoy it. They'll find you soon enough and you have to go back to being the slow guy again when you get to the next group.

My experience has been that they wont bump you to the next group until you wont be THE slowest guy out there. Typically not until your a solid mid pack for the next higher group. Obeying rules and holding consistent lines. This is why NESBAs I and A groups are consistently faster and safer than the same groups with other orgs. I thought that too, and was comfortable my first session out with a new group. This is what I have noticed in the midwest region anyway.......

 

[AU_R1]

Quite true, the slow thing was a bit of sarcasm, but I experienced the same thing. I was really hesitant to pick up my I bump, but I felt quite comfortable once I got there, middle of the pack-ish.

 

[matt2212]

bump

lots of good info in this one

 

[Smithereens]

Just read it again......... +1:agree:

 

[matt2212]

I'm getting ready for barber and have read it twice, its funny how people have the exact same progression and how they explain the different levels in ways that suddenly make sense. It also helps answer the question about where I am and how far i have to go before the "Bump"

 

[toolfreek]

Wow, great thread. My last track day was in the end of last year, and I got the same type of "you're looking good, just go a little faster" type of responses. One coach pointed out that I was timid with my passes. I was always going out front because I wanted to have clean track, not trying to get a bump, at the end a coach told me I wasn't quite ready to move up, same sort of "just go faster" type of stuff. I told him I was perfectly happy in B, still am, but I'm still not comfortable with passing, not from a fear of my inability to execute it perspective, but from a fear of spooking someone else, ending their day, or as another guy said, fear of getting parked. I'm out there to have fun, and would feel horrible if I caused someone to crash and kept them from having fun, y'know? I wasn't really sure what I was going to work on this track day, specifically, but now I think I know. How should I approach a CR for advice on this? I don't want to be that guy who says "Teach me how to pass people!" and you guys think I'm out to be that guy who is passing on the outside over the blind hill in 4 under yellow (hypothetically, of course ).

 

[sheepofblue]

Ask them WHERE you can pick up some pace. If the answer is everywhere then ask for a specific place on the track. All people have a habit of using pronouns and thinking the other person is following them when the generalization can sometimes prevent that.

While they are answering the question you are not following it up for details. I have found riding with intermediates that most have a couple of spots they are losing a lot of time (as do I). Due to my few hundred laps I can usually supply info to neighbors that drop them a second or more a lap. Control riders can easily do the same, so ASK. Go work on a single area to pick up pace with the tips and coaching they can provide.

As to the passing once you are running quicker then ASK on that, but my bet is that will be more natural as your pace increases and you start having to judge closing speeds and angles more often.

 

[toolfreek]

Yeah I guess that is something this thread has been enlightening to, is the need to ask for details. I know alot of the guys are doing there best, and are out there to help, so I didnt want to badger them. I did get some very specific pointers as well, such as my foot positioning needing to be about an inch different from what it was (I thought it was amazing he could notice to that detail) and that to remember when hanging off it wasnt about getting the head down and off the bike, but standing the bike up. I hope my first post didnt come across as they were not helpful, because that couldnt be further from the truth.

I guess my fear with the guy telling me I need to be more aggressive passing is that, considering it is B group, and I dont know the skill level of the other people out there, I have to expect that every move I make on them is going to spook them, piss them off, etc, and ruin their experience. I did have an incident once in the museum section at barber with a guy on a busa. I was on my SV and set myself up to run tight out at the bottom and try to set up to beat him to the next corner. He was parking it in turns, and then tried to drag race me to the next corner. Pulled up next to me, didnt know I was there and got spooked and grabbed a handful of front brake. I literally saw him next to me one second and GONE the next, was scared he crashed. Found him in the paddock later and he said it scared him and he pulled off from that session after that. He was easy going, and we were cool, but I hated that I ruined his session for him, even if he, by his own admission, learned from it, about the difference in his bike versus something like an sv, where corner speed is crucial. Maybe that incident just sticks with me too much?

 

[rk97]

first off, I think it is ALWAYS a positive sign when you are expressing concern for other riders on track.

It sounds like you and I were in similar positions in "B," you were faster than the rider in front of you, but hesitant to "force" a pass.

Your plan to ask how to pass sounds just about perfect, but based on your description of things, I'm betting you have all the speed and skill to get by and only lack the confidence. Control riders can tel you "you totally could have made it by," but they can't be confident FOR you. It's always safer to ask their opinion, but when they're saying, "just go faster," it probably means that they're confident in your ability to brake later and get by that rider holding you up.

If you're having fun in "B," there's no reason t force anything. Your safety is more important than your speed.

 

[toolfreek]

Yeah, when I was going out, I would always go out as close to first as possible. I'm certainly not bragging and or acting like I'm fast, but there was pretty much only one guy who did pass me. He did so a couple of times (once under yellow, over the blind hill LOL). The CR who said I wasn't ready did kind of laugh and said the two guys behind me were asking for a bump, and said that he and I pretty much ran off and left them. I'm on an R1 now, but I think my time on the SV taught me corner speed, as I find myself running up on other riders in B in the turns a lot. I actually inadvertently towed one of my neighbors through 5 when I passed him, he described me as running away from him by that second apex.

I agree 100%, I know they cant do it, per-se, but what would be perfect would be essentially a thumbs up, thumbs down on the passes I made in a session. Kind of a "just let me go until I start getting close to the edge, then pass me and let me know that was close to the limit" kind of thing. The CR's do a fantastic job of showing us the non nebulous things like the line, what the bikes are capable of in turns, brake markers, etc. But other, more nebulous things are harder to show. I understand that, and don't have the answers to how to do it either, but for now, I take "you aren't agressive enough passing" as better than "get your head out of your a, you could have killed someone".

 

[Mikey75702]

toolfreek;178959 wrote: Yeah, when I was going out, I would always go out as close to first as possible. I'm certainly not bragging and or acting like I'm fast, but there was pretty much only one guy who did pass me. He did so a couple of times (once under yellow, over the blind hill LOL). The CR who said I wasn't ready did kind of laugh and said the two guys behind me were asking for a bump, and said that he and I pretty much ran off and left them. I'm on an R1 now, but I think my time on the SV taught me corner speed, as I find myself running up on other riders in B in the turns a lot. I actually inadvertently towed one of my neighbors through 5 when I passed him, he described me as running away from him by that second apex.

I agree 100%, I know they cant do it, per-se, but what would be perfect would be essentially a thumbs up, thumbs down on the passes I made in a session. Kind of a "just let me go until I start getting close to the edge, then pass me and let me know that was close to the limit" kind of thing. The CR's do a fantastic job of showing us the non nebulous things like the line, what the bikes are capable of in turns, brake markers, etc. But other, more nebulous things are harder to show. I understand that, and don't have the answers to how to do it either, but for now, I take "you aren't agressive enough passing" as better than "get your head out of your a, you could have killed someone".

Might be easier to ask one of them to pass you in the worst way they would feel comfortable in B group. So they can wait till after the straight and "stuff you" (of course thats the B group stuffing, not the A group) then maybe you will see how close you can pass without being "wrong"