The search for I group status
- Thread starter bayboy
- Start date
I truly can understand the "bump chase." My goal in life was to get to 'A' as fast as possible. I too became frustrated at times, always getting the "you're doing everything right, just go faster." Now, being in 'A' is really no big deal to me.
Unfortunately, the insight you need will not be apparent until after the bump(s).
Unfortunately, the insight you need will not be apparent until after the bump(s).
It's my experience with Nesba that you'll earn your bump by working on the basics..... body position, throttle control, hitting your marks, etc........... but there's just no substitute for making good decisions in a sport that requires so much trust between participants. Are you making clean passes, paying attention to the flags and respecting the track conditions?
CR's will all tell you that lap times aren't the most important criteria but it still counts. You might be smooth and safe but you're still probably not ready if you're way slower than the guys in the next group up.
CR's will all tell you that lap times aren't the most important criteria but it still counts. You might be smooth and safe but you're still probably not ready if you're way slower than the guys in the next group up.
bayboy
New Member
I feel alot better after reading these post. At the end of the day if I'm a fast B rider that can dust off 75% of other organizations I groups........ I'm cool with that. In the end it will make me a better/smoother/safer rider.
My name is Bayboy...... and ...... "I" am a NESBIAN B GROUP RIDER!!!!
NOW HURRY THE FUCK UP SPRING!!!!!
My name is Bayboy...... and ...... "I" am a NESBIAN B GROUP RIDER!!!!
NOW HURRY THE FUCK UP SPRING!!!!!
dlockhart5x
New Member
I think that by the time many of us have made A we have good casual relations with the other riders in our group and can seek out suggestions when needed. Also at the A stage of rider development, solving problems is part of the fun.
Mikey75702
Member
That's the attitude.... now hurry up springbayboy;165668 wrote: I feel alot better after reading these post. At the end of the day if I'm a fast B rider that can dust off 75% of other organizations I groups........ I'm cool with that. In the end it will make me a better/smoother/safer rider.
My name is Bayboy...... and ...... "I" am a NESBIAN B GROUP RIDER!!!!
NOW HURRY THE FUCK UP SPRING!!!!!
blueninja1
New Member
i could use the winter time to my advantage. Daddy needs some dough.
When I was in mid-upper 'I', that was heard at least a half dozen times. I took it to mean that my technique was solid, and had the physical ability to go faster. Which I knew. After Troy (aka Landshark) talked to me about the mental aspects, I really understood what needed to be done. I still hear him (like Obi-wan) occasionally when I seem to plateau.
When I got to A, I was talking with Dale Blackman, and he pointed out that sometimes that feedback is used repeatedly to see if a person is able to make improvements without telling what to do, which is required in A. I get it now, but it would've been nice to know much sooner.
I've requested advice, and sometimes got it. Being shown around a new track was always no problem. I'm at the point now where the "little things" start making a noticeable difference, and honestly, when I've asked for a 'rabbit' it just never seems to happen.
It would be awesome if there was an 'A' group seminar once in a while. Or have one of the faster CR's dedicated to A group, do some feedback laps, maybe get some video, or work on some drills, YCRS style.
It seems that lately I'm just out there to use up tires, and it's kinda getting old chasing lap times.
gixxercurt
New Member
hey Steve-o, sounds like you should come down south and ride more. Guarantee that they're more than enough ppl in A that could, and would be willing to help you out! However you may need a translator for our southern dialect, or at least a crash course!
Have you ever tried racing??
Have you ever tried racing??
I've been told this at several track days over the last year. "Your lines are good, body position is good, You're hitting the apexes, it's just your pace that's holding you back"
This fall, finally drilled down into that with a CR and got some actionable advice "Start getting on the throttle here. you are waiting too long after the apex to get on the throttle." I took 5 sec off my pace that day, and the following outing cut some more time off.
Sometimes you have to take personal responsibility to make sure that you understand what someone is trying to tell you.That said, I've been given comments like "you need to trust your tires more", "you need to go faster", and "you are too slow through the corners". None of these comments, however accurate an observation, tell me how to improve my riding.
If instead I was told "you need to use more lean in the corners", you need to get on the gas right after you pass the apex, and stay hard on the throttle until you start braking", and "you have the skill to go through this corner faster, try entering the corner at a slightly higher speed" would have saved me much frustration, because the second set of quotes provide clear feedback that gives me something concrete to work on, rather than a generic comment. The first set of comments tell me that I'm doing something wrong, without necessarily providing any clear instruction on how to fix it.
Shame on me for letting each of the CR's who made the first set of comments get away without explaining things better.
Allow me to offer some thoughts:
The Control Riders -- Control riding, coaching, instructing, etc., etc. for any club and for any type of activity such as we do is a lot like riding itself. It takes some time to get used to the change in perspective and to tranlate what you have learned to be "actionable" data for a rider. Over the last 18 months I have worked hard to make correlations between what I see and understand of the riders i work with and the way I learned as well and then articulate that so that the rider can learn from it. Developing this takes time -- riders can help us by asking for more or asking us to explain ourselves.
Help yourself -- You understand best how you learn AND HOW TO LEARN. If you are given advice or soemthing to practice, DO NOT simply go out and toss the bike into the new position or crank the throttle to 11 but rather work up to the new method in degrees. I know we hear this all the time, but I think it needs to be said voer and over. I have an example for this, but I'd rather not print it for fear that someone will try it thinking well it worked for Kubricky...
Check your ego and have fun -- First and most importantly we SHOULD be doing this to have fun. I know I am rather straight forward with what I say in the meetings sometimes and I won't disappoint here: if you are 30 years old and trying to get a MotoGP ride...with Jorge as your teammate...you might be better served in another hobby. If you think you are going to break track records and this is your first year on the race track, you might want to try MMA or skydiving. There really is little room for ego in the TRACK DAY business. If you are hear to practice for a race or learn a track as a racer -- respect those here to enjoy themselves. If you are riding with your group of friends and are the fastest of them, line up at the front of the line your group...maybe you will get bumped and it will motivate your friends to do better and you will certainly learn. If you are mid pack with your group of buddies or at the back, move slowly ASK THEM what you can do to improve and watch them. If you don't have a group you ride with, come and find me or ask anyone in the paddock, I really enjoy riding with others.
The GREAT Lapt timer myth -- I want to preface this by saying there will be an article on theBellyPan about this very subject from Brian Blume and I am looking forward to it, but I want to throw out a couple thoughts here. A lap timer is a TOOL not a stopwatch AND it should be used as such. If you want to try something new, do two laps, then try entering a corner differently, a different line, etc., then pit in and review [mentally] how you did by comparing your times. When I had a straight timer, I would be able to remember about 4 laps worth of data, but little else. Our reference points keep our laps consistent, it is the minor things we change to make improvements. The GPS lap timers CAN BE an incredible tool, they can be wired to give DAQ and show changes in lines (on a track!), braking and acceleration, etc., etc. The great myth is twofold: a timer should be left off the bike and a timer is a great tool. Used properly the timer can help you, improperly it can actually hurt your times, force you to make mistakes and create inconsistency. However, without the laptimer as a measure of where we are sometimes we can become frustrated and wonder if we will ever improve. It is the "laptimer chase" that causes the most problems.
Reagarding the earlier tone of the discussion, I look at a number of things for the bump from B to I...body position (just the basics), consistency, reference points, ability to understand lines and apexes, aggression, ability to follow rules, smooth clean passing, and finally and last on the list how consistent are lap times -- NOT what lap times may be.
Just some thoughts, Ihope this helps...
The Control Riders -- Control riding, coaching, instructing, etc., etc. for any club and for any type of activity such as we do is a lot like riding itself. It takes some time to get used to the change in perspective and to tranlate what you have learned to be "actionable" data for a rider. Over the last 18 months I have worked hard to make correlations between what I see and understand of the riders i work with and the way I learned as well and then articulate that so that the rider can learn from it. Developing this takes time -- riders can help us by asking for more or asking us to explain ourselves.
Help yourself -- You understand best how you learn AND HOW TO LEARN. If you are given advice or soemthing to practice, DO NOT simply go out and toss the bike into the new position or crank the throttle to 11 but rather work up to the new method in degrees. I know we hear this all the time, but I think it needs to be said voer and over. I have an example for this, but I'd rather not print it for fear that someone will try it thinking well it worked for Kubricky...
Check your ego and have fun -- First and most importantly we SHOULD be doing this to have fun. I know I am rather straight forward with what I say in the meetings sometimes and I won't disappoint here: if you are 30 years old and trying to get a MotoGP ride...with Jorge as your teammate...you might be better served in another hobby. If you think you are going to break track records and this is your first year on the race track, you might want to try MMA or skydiving. There really is little room for ego in the TRACK DAY business. If you are hear to practice for a race or learn a track as a racer -- respect those here to enjoy themselves. If you are riding with your group of friends and are the fastest of them, line up at the front of the line your group...maybe you will get bumped and it will motivate your friends to do better and you will certainly learn. If you are mid pack with your group of buddies or at the back, move slowly ASK THEM what you can do to improve and watch them. If you don't have a group you ride with, come and find me or ask anyone in the paddock, I really enjoy riding with others.
The GREAT Lapt timer myth -- I want to preface this by saying there will be an article on theBellyPan about this very subject from Brian Blume and I am looking forward to it, but I want to throw out a couple thoughts here. A lap timer is a TOOL not a stopwatch AND it should be used as such. If you want to try something new, do two laps, then try entering a corner differently, a different line, etc., then pit in and review [mentally] how you did by comparing your times. When I had a straight timer, I would be able to remember about 4 laps worth of data, but little else. Our reference points keep our laps consistent, it is the minor things we change to make improvements. The GPS lap timers CAN BE an incredible tool, they can be wired to give DAQ and show changes in lines (on a track!), braking and acceleration, etc., etc. The great myth is twofold: a timer should be left off the bike and a timer is a great tool. Used properly the timer can help you, improperly it can actually hurt your times, force you to make mistakes and create inconsistency. However, without the laptimer as a measure of where we are sometimes we can become frustrated and wonder if we will ever improve. It is the "laptimer chase" that causes the most problems.
Reagarding the earlier tone of the discussion, I look at a number of things for the bump from B to I...body position (just the basics), consistency, reference points, ability to understand lines and apexes, aggression, ability to follow rules, smooth clean passing, and finally and last on the list how consistent are lap times -- NOT what lap times may be.
Just some thoughts, Ihope this helps...
dlockhart5x
New Member
:crs:
good write-up kubricky
At first it seems so simple. What to do when the rider is doing everything well, but just not going faster?
Some seem to be able to say to themselves "it worked out fine at X pace, lets see if X+2 works"
I think I fall into this catagory, and since I am slow, I have plenty of +'s to work with before hitting the limit aka ground
good write-up kubricky
At first it seems so simple. What to do when the rider is doing everything well, but just not going faster?
Some seem to be able to say to themselves "it worked out fine at X pace, lets see if X+2 works"
I think I fall into this catagory, and since I am slow, I have plenty of +'s to work with before hitting the limit aka ground
