Tire Question

A

ajohn505

New Member
Hey everyone, it's been awhile!

So the track season is fast approaching and I'm hoping you fast peeps can help a brotha out with a tire question.

I know NESBA is moving over to Dunlop (so I'm going to be moving to Dunlop as well). The trackday store has Dunlop D209GPA's on sale. Should I bother with what is basically last year's tire, or:

go with the D211GPA's, or:

Should I go with slicks instead if I'm looking for max grip on my track-only 954rr? I'm hoping to regain some confidence on the track this year so I'm not too worried about price, just absolute maximum grip. I've heard that keeping heat in slicks can be a problem for slower-than-"A" riders, but that it might not be a big deal with a literbike, warmers, and proper pressures.
 
S

Sklossmonster

New Member
Hi Adam,

Based on what you said in your post, the Dunlop slicks would probably be your best bet.

They are considerably more expensive than the D209, and with good reason.

I'm not too worried about price, just absolute maximum grip.
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If this is true, then the D209 should not even be on your list of considerations, it is a budget race tire and trades traction for price.

The D211 is an obvious step up from the previous generation 209, but the slicks are the cat's ass, no question about it.

As Matt was so quick to point out, you can also buy your tires from the new Trackday store if you like, or you could support your local Nesba trackside vendor and buy them from Turn One Racing instead.

Either way you'll get the same great product. We're only stocking the D211s at the track right now, so if you decide you want to try the slicks, shoot me an email and I'll get you pricing and turnaround time per your needs.

Of course, any tires you buy through Turn One Racing will be mounted and balanced trackside at no charge. Any tire you buy from someone else we'll be happy to mount and balance for you, for $20 per wheel.

And of course, you can always buy tires on the Turn One Racing website and still receive free mounting and balancing at any Midwest event.

http://www.turnoneracing.com/Tires/Dunlop-Tires-c118/

We'll see you at the track.
 
A

ajohn505

New Member
So no one thinks it'll be a problem for a slow-ish I rider (previously a fast-ish I rider ;) ) to keep enough heat in those NTEC KR slicks?
 
some guy #2

some guy #2

Member
I was in "I" at Road Atlanta and ran those tires (hard front med rear) with warmers and recommended pressure and I had no issues with those bad boys sticking.
 
S

Sklossmonster

New Member
Here's the thing about race tires and operating temps.

Race tires come in different compounds for different conditions (read: necessary operating temperature ranges) They are also highly susceptible to changes in pressure, allowing riders to work within a range to allow the tire to run hotter or cooler, based on your needs.

Anyone in Nesba's Intemediate group is fully capable of getting the proper compound race tires up to temp. In fact, a fast "I" guy on too soft a compound with too low a pressure will destroy a race tire in a day.

Be wary of the information you get off the boards and in the pits. Most people mean well, but not everyone knows exactly what they're talking about.
 
tankslapper

tankslapper

New Member
Motorcycle USA did a track evaluation of the Sportmax GP-A and it finished 2nd in lap times against other rubber to include Michelin Power Ones and Pirelli DSCs. And if I remember correctly these tires were spec requirements for AMA Daytona Sportbike Class. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am thinking these tires should work fine for most if not all track day riders as well as many club racers. Yeah, they might give up a second here and there, which is important for top five expert racers, but after that... Can't imagine any track day rider worrying about a couple seconds and beyond that any tire, even if it has quirks, should allow them to learn in the right direction. BTW, I just took advantage of the pricing on the GP-As and have raced Power Ones and Pirellis and would like to think these babies will be just fine.
 
S

Sklossmonster

New Member
Motorcycle USA did a track evaluation of the Sportmax GP-A and it finished 2nd in lap times against other rubber to include Michelin Power Ones and Pirelli DSCs. And if I remember correctly these tires were spec requirements for AMA Daytona Sportbike Class. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am thinking these tires should work fine for most if not all track day riders as well as many club racers.
You're absolutely right, but they're also all DOT tires, not slicks. The reason they make slicks in the first place is to make a tire that doesn't have to do anything but offer ultimate grip. Ultimate grip with no concern for longevity or price, just traction.

He said:

I'm not too worried about price, just absolute maximum grip.
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I'm sure the D209 is a perfectly capable tire, but the D211 is better, and the slicks are even better still, which is why they cost so much money.

This is a confidence sport. Whatever parts you need to give you the confidence to ride the way you want is what you should put on your bike. And slicks are so damn good they almost make you feel guilty :D
 
RICK211

RICK211

Member
hey guys this past weeken i was using the gpa for the time and i like tham but they are chapping on the side and i dont know y tier pressure was 30from and 24 rear
dont know how to post pic tho
 
gkotlin

gkotlin

New Member
chapping? A ride to your trackside vendor is worth a thousand words. Or two thousand if it's the word "chapping"
 
A

ajohn505

New Member
Great discussion - thanks Marshall and everyone else for their feedback.

I'm probably going to go with the slicks out of the gate this year, if it's overkill so be it, I can always step down to D211s or D209s later.

I know they're not going to make me a better rider - but if it can give me more confidence to start out the year I'm thinking that's a good foundation to start with.
 
stephenjpauls

stephenjpauls

New Member
tankslapper;119076 wrote: Motorcycle USA did a track evaluation of the Sportmax GP-A and it finished 2nd in lap times against other rubber to include Michelin Power Ones and Pirelli DSCs. And if I remember correctly these tires were spec requirements for AMA Daytona Sportbike Class. Correct me if I am wrong, but I am thinking these tires should work fine for most if not all track day riders as well as many club racers. Yeah, they might give up a second here and there, which is important for top five expert racers, but after that... Can't imagine any track day rider worrying about a couple seconds and beyond that any tire, even if it has quirks, should allow them to learn in the right direction. BTW, I just took advantage of the pricing on the GP-As and have raced Power Ones and Pirellis and would like to think these babies will be just fine.
As Stevie B kept asking me, "why wouldn't you run slicks. your not limited to race rules." Any tire will let you get around the track... but any tire isn't the best. For the track slicks are made to outperform the rest. If you have the money for them, why not ride the best rather than trying to find the limits of another tire?

Sklossmonster;119083 wrote: Whatever parts you need to give you the confidence to ride the way you want is what you should put on your bike.
Click to expand...
Marshall, do you sell training wheels?
 
ERB68

ERB68

New Member
Marshall, do you sell training wheels?
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Stephen, you don't need training wheels. Just a more understanding wife.

Have you talked her into letting you come out and play yet?

Since the bike isn't selling it should get used or else it will go bad. :D
 
fitz

fitz

New Member
Sklossmonster;118883 wrote:

but the slicks are the cat's ass,
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Sorry but I have to ask, in the Mid-West you guys consider this a good thing?

"Hey Honey this dinner taste like the cat's ass"

"Baby you are looking FINE, just like the cat's ass"

etc... :notsure:
 
S

Sklossmonster

New Member
Hey Honey this dinner taste like the cat's ass"
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You just made me spit tea all over my computer screen! That was seriously funny, thank you, I needed that.

And for the record, it would be more like, "Honey, this dinner is the cat's ass" and then she'd slap you anyway :D


Stephen Pauls! What are you doing lurking around here? I thought you quit the track pipe last season. I know how it is. Hard to let go of something that can be so good. We miss you out there, and hope to see you again sometime. Maybe at the Blackhawk Chili Cook Off?


Tastes like the cat's ass ... I'm still laughing over here about that. Nicely done!
 
Trent1098S

Trent1098S

New Member
ajohn505;118870 wrote: Hey everyone, it's been awhile!

So the track season is fast approaching and I'm hoping you fast peeps can help a brotha out with a tire question.

I know NESBA is moving over to Dunlop (so I'm going to be moving to Dunlop as well). The trackday store has Dunlop D209GPA's on sale. Should I bother with what is basically last year's tire, or:

go with the D211GPA's, or:

Should I go with slicks instead if I'm looking for max grip on my track-only 954rr? I'm hoping to regain some confidence on the track this year so I'm not too worried about price, just absolute maximum grip. I've heard that keeping heat in slicks can be a problem for slower-than-"A" riders, but that it might not be a big deal with a literbike, warmers, and proper pressures.
OK I'm not a "Fast Guy" per-se, but I've run both tires now at a fast I pace and I can you give SOME input. I've got a Ducati 1098S currently with a 209GPA front and 211GP rear, previously with a 209GPA rear, and a gixxer 1000 with a fresh set of 209GPA's that were previously NTEC slicks, so I've ridden all of the tires that you're asking about on multiple machines.

I've found that the 209GPA fronts are very good, to a point. I can get them push and break loose on both bikes, and I have to be cautious when riding the front hard during turn in. I've had them push and tuck on both bikes, but haven't crashed on them (yet).. while they WILL slide (and yes you can REALLY feel the front go on you), they have so far (knock on wood) regained traction before fully washing out.

This being said I've got several pictures from the last Autobahn last year where I'm carrying a 62 degree lean angle on the 209GPA front, so I guarantee it will stick when warm. Most of my "moments" have been in the cold, but not all, so take what I've written with a grain of salt.

By comparison, the pirelli Diablo SC2 slick front I ran before on my 1098 was rock solid. After I wear out the 209GPA's I bought for a rediculously low price (and that'll be awhile because these bastards last FOREVER), I'll run NTEC slicks.

Bottom line, you can run a pretty fast pace on 209GPA's. I *really* had to work at it to get my 209GPA rear to break loose on me at Barber on the gixxer 1000. And I mean.. I went WAY past my previous comfort zone on the throttle.

The 211's on the Ducati, I simply can't get it to break loose. I've TRIED but my front wheel keeps coming up when driving out of corners...

Anyway if you want the most confidence and you don't even want to THINK about "is my tire gonna handle what I'm doing", get the NTEC slick, run warmers, and go out with your hair on fire. :)


ajohn505;118912 wrote: So no one thinks it'll be a problem for a slow-ish I rider (previously a fast-ish I rider ;) ) to keep enough heat in those NTEC KR slicks?
Click to expand...

Not one bit. I was able to get the 211's to warm up at Road Atlanta when we had 41F degree high in December. Course I was braking WAY harder than normal to keep heat in the front. (Now I need to do that all the time cause if they stick at 41 degrees, they'll REALLY friggin stick when it's 70.. haha)

Sklossmonster;118934 wrote: Anyone in Nesba's Intemediate group is fully capable of getting the proper compound race tires up to temp. In fact, a fast "I" guy on too soft a compound with too low a pressure will destroy a race tire in a day.
Click to expand...

Been there.. done that.. really hurts when you shred a $300 rear in a single day..

Sklossmonster;118934 wrote: Be wary of the information you get off the boards and in the pits. Most people mean well, but not everyone knows exactly what they're talking about.
I agree, which is why in my response here I say "take it with a grain of salt"...

At my pace, and with my limited experience, I'm far from an expert. From what my personal experiences have been, though, NTEC's are overkill, 209GPA are less-than-forgiving if you really push it and the front makes me nervous, while 211GP's are great.

But if money is no factor, and you simply don't want to worry about "will my tires hold this time" every time you bury the nose in to the corner, just get the NTEC's. They last a loooong friggin time.

stephenjpauls;119322 wrote: Marshall, do you sell training wheels?
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STEPHEN! Where the hell you been? You better get back on the horse man, you've had all winter to get that off you had out of your head, now get out and ride!
 
Trent1098S

Trent1098S

New Member
Man ain't you ever been fishing before?

Best lean angle I managed to hold at ACC was 54 degrees. Tires were moving quite a bit on me that day.

This is on Dunlop 209GPA's.

54deg.jpg
 
Matt

Matt

New Member
you could use less lean angle if you got off the damn bike a bit more, dropped your head and opened your hips and shoulders.
 
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