NJMP - A little rant (and request for any gopro videos of the crash)

[Ruhe52]

Chris sorry about your buddy hope he is back in the saddle soon.

It's a shame some tracks just attract more than their share of knobs. Situations also give rise to idiocy. For instance any day we have rain is usually followed by some dickhead trying to get back all his down track time as he or she was too worried about riding in the rain but rides like an ass in the dry. Oh well. What year R6 bro might have some stuff for him to rebuild with?

 

[z064life]

Ruhe52;290754 wrote: Chris sorry about your buddy hope he is back in the saddle soon.

It's a shame some tracks just attract more than their share of knobs. Situations also give rise to idiocy. For instance any day we have rain is usually followed by some dickhead trying to get back all his down track time as he or she was too worried about riding in the rain but rides like an ass in the dry. Oh well. What year R6 bro might have some stuff for him to rebuild with?

It's an s model so 03-05 and 06+ r6s

At 1st glance he needs clipons, tank, subframe. Possible front cowl and tail. Not sure on the rest until I tear into it in the next day or two.

 

[Ruhe52]

Let me dig through my stuff. Have rear sets for sure. Might have a sub frame but will need to dig through some stuff. I have to go out of town until next Wed so be patient with me and I'll PM you what I find in the spare pile.

 

[bmrboy]

noobinacan;290708 wrote: my 2 cents...unrelated to this particular incident but in-line with this thread:

Good post...I agree that this has happened previously.
but It doesn't mean you let it continue.
Someone comes with the intent of 'I don't care if I take someone out' and is acting like a douche
Take their wrist band and BAN them permanently!!! as in, if we ever see you with this org again, we'll send you packing before the riders meeting.

and vote kick people. If two riders complaint about the same person...instant DONE FOR THE DAY!!! (usually, in this case the CR's would have seen the incident too)

Make that sh*t public, post the rider #, bike, screen name on the forums so we all know who's the douche to look out for.

Its the same crowd, and the community is small enough and people know people...next thing, they'd get banned from STT, TPM and others...and will learn their lesson the hard way.

IMO, the threat for all the above (specially the publicity part) should be deterrent enough. if its not..enforce it.
You gotta take out the trash when you see it...before it takes you out!


end rant!

I can honestly say that I agree with tossing the shit heads out .... A year ago at VIR riding with another org I saw the most
horrendous event ever ..... ck out u-tube , BAD DAY AT VIR .... If this video doesn't scare the crap out or you , your not right
in the head !!!!!!!

 

[CBRtist]

I too can travel in BZ's Wayback Machine. Good people and good times for sure, but people change and circumstances change. In times like this it's good to always focus on the mission statement/concept the Club was founded on. Might be good to refer to the tagline on this one: Ride Fast. Ride Safe.

I'm not sure how the Club would be defined now as an entity, but it seems like there were specific parameters in place in regards to codes of conduct and professionalism then. Now it seems to have become a little fluid and subjective. Other than the rider's manual, are there other guidelines in place, and in writing, to ensure that the mission statement (which defines the product) is never compromised in any area?

I know it is an impossibility to form and sustain a board of directors, but I am planning to work on formation of volunteer committees *insert broken record* in the off season to alleviate some internal pressures (including a sleep committee that will be in a dark tent with bunk beds, massage therapists [there actually used to be one back in the day no?], and soft lullaby music for intermittent naps )

These kind of things in place could provide structure instead of attempting to continually herd cats.

 

[Dave561]

Ok, new rules in place as of today.

Rider's meeting is promptly as 8:15 AM. We will lock the garage immediately at 8:15AM. All those that are not in the tech garage will be hunted down by the CR's in the pits and have their armbands removed. To ensure that we don't miss one we will use a visual queue of removing the offending riders arms. Now I realize we may get a few guests in the process, but small price to pay

All offending riders of any rules throughout the days will be shot with a paintball gun on track. If they do not crash upon impact, we will allow them to continue. If they crash problem solved. If not then the remaining riders will easily be able to identify them.

At any point in time a CR can smack an offending rider up the back side of their head. If they even glance up the inside of a rider we will tag them. Better safe than sorry.

Any rider with more than two paint ball strikes will be hung from the observation tower at lunch. This will provide a deterrent to any additional riders that may feel the need to break a rule. Any riders caught after lunch will be burned at the stake. This provides light and a great place to make smores. Everyone loves smores.

Thank you, Dave

 

[CBRtist]

Dave561;290777 wrote: Ok, new rules in place as of today.

Rider's meeting is promptly as 8:15 AM. We will lock the garage immediately at 8:15AM. All those that are not in the tech garage will be hunted down by the CR's in the pits and have their armbands removed. To ensure that we don't miss one we will use a visual queue of removing the offending riders arms. Now I realize we may get a few guests in the process, but small price to pay

All offending riders of any rules throughout the days will be shot with a paintball gun on track. If they do not crash upon impact, we will allow them to continue. If they crash problem solved. If not then the remaining riders will easily be able to identify them.

At any point in time a CR can smack an offending rider up the back side of their head. If they even glance up the inside of a rider we will tag them. Better safe than sorry.

Any rider with more than two paint ball strikes will be hung from the observation tower at lunch. This will provide a deterrent to any additional riders that may feel the need to break a rule. Any riders caught after lunch will be burned at the stake. This provides light and a great place to make smores. Everyone loves smores.

Thank you, Dave

:adore: Thank you.

Sign me up for the chocolate. I don't roll Hershey. I got fancy shmancy dark stuff.

 

[Ruhe52]

Whoa big shooter!!!!! Just simply send them home. No call for ritual mutilation and hangings
Just sit them out then send them home.


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[Dave561]

Nope just done.

 

[HondaGalToo]

Thought I was done with this thread. Little sarcasm, there, Dave? I would have hoped that you and others would take at least some of the suggestions to heart. When you mock it like that, as a director, it makes me think that nothing is going to change, and none of the decent suggestions are going to be considered. I would hope that's not the case. It would be nice if tech would go back to opening promptly at 7 and closing promptly at 8, rather than letting the late-comers impact the day for those of us who show up on time. Maybe it's a staffing issue at the crowded days? I don't know.

Now I'm done. Peace, guys. Ride safe!

 

[Meat]

Aman, just messing with you dude. You were going a little crazy with the punishment and ridicule so I just had to poke you.

 

[Meat]

Aman, just messing with you dude. You were going a little crazy with the punishment and ridicule so I just had to poke you.

 

[Bubba Zanetti]

Dave561;290777 wrote: Ok, new rules in place as of today.

Rider's meeting is promptly as 8:15 AM. We will lock the garage immediately at 8:15AM. All those that are not in the tech garage will be hunted down by the CR's in the pits and have their armbands removed. To ensure that we don't miss one we will use a visual queue of removing the offending riders arms. Now I realize we may get a few guests in the process, but small price to pay

All offending riders of any rules throughout the days will be shot with a paintball gun on track. If they do not crash upon impact, we will allow them to continue. If they crash problem solved. If not then the remaining riders will easily be able to identify them.

At any point in time a CR can smack an offending rider up the back side of their head. If they even glance up the inside of a rider we will tag them. Better safe than sorry.

Any rider with more than two paint ball strikes will be hung from the observation tower at lunch. This will provide a deterrent to any additional riders that may feel the need to break a rule. Any riders caught after lunch will be burned at the stake. This provides light and a great place to make smores. Everyone loves smores.

Thank you, Dave

Well, its a start :congrats:

Dave, I may not have written the most nuanced post, but I will say again that my intentions are not to tear down the hard work the NESBA staff pours into the club. My point is there is a small percent of riders with bad attitudes that seem to squeak by or stay under the radar on certain days at NJMP. Avispls, Judy and I are the ones being vocal about it because we care. We are not the only ones who have witnessed this or feel that way we do. Most do not want to say anything on the board because it seems the wagons get circled and the CR's get pissed at the poster.

I am not saying you never sit someone out Dave for violations. I am not saying someone might get away with rule infractions more than once because the only info is a black R6 caused an issue and there are 3 black R6's on the track. Avispls gave an example that is exactly what we are talking about. That one rider or small group that just pushes the limit in all the wrong ways.

I have done my own enforcement in the pits when riders start to complain about 'slow' riders in B group. I tell them that if you are frustrated then you are doing something wrong. We all started in B. if you are having a tough day due to traffic make sure every session you are working on something! I would give them hell for ripping on the newbies because we were ALL newbies at some point and will be again. Take a breath, look at the big picture and have fun...we aint racing man

Lastly, we all know accidents do happen. Mistakes are made by all of us. That is not what we are necessarily talking about. It is easy to look at Judy and think she is just bitter because she got smacked hard and hurt last year at T-Bolt. It wasn't the accident that pissed her off it was the attitude of the rider after the accident that pissed her off.

I respect you, Vinny, Kris, Dion, all the CR's. I am just asking you listen to us on this. This has been on my mind for sometime, I just thought I should write something now instead of later. Had I made it out on the 30th I was going to speak to some of you guys in person. I am not sitting at my keyboard banging away in anger.

Somethings are better talked out in person.

God Bless,

Dan

 

[Myers]

Dan, NO waggons here... please see my prior post. I think what frustrates ME... Is that I saw Judy, I saw some of the folks on this thread on Sunday and NOTHING was said about any of this. One gentleman came up to me and asked me to look at "a guy on a 250 who had bumped a rider" ... we all know there are 2 sides... So i spent the next 2 sessions with and without a shirt...up on and backed off this rider...found there were 2 other 250s that day and i saw no deplorable riding... My point.... I believe during the riders meeting it is mentioned "that if your seeing something or not having fun please come see us vise jumping on the boards and ranting". That said... I was once new and i accept and understand the frustrations voiced here..my only hope is that my point is taken by all who read this...We xcant be everywhere..BUT your eyes CAN be..help us make it better... Regarding BN... i havent seen him this year unless i missed him?

Take care and I hope to see you out there..helping us make this a better club...

ps: i am a fan of the paintball idea...

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[Blueberry]

Sorry to hear of the incident and best wishes for a speedy recovery.

I'd very much encourage the use of technology to help drive the culture change we seek. The initial request was for camera footage to better understand the incident and identify whom was involved. If it was available these last 8 pages would likely be a very different dialogue. I personally always run a camera (or two), partially for learning, partially for fun footage, and partially for CYA in case of incidents. I know when something happens in front of me I also always approach the folks involved to let them know I have the footage if desired. The use of cameras is often discouraged due to distraction so I realize there are pros/cons, but for most folks I know with cameras the novelty factor wears off quickly and it typically becomes just another tool like lap timer, gear indicator, etc. Maybe it starts as an A-group initiative to run cameras to help police ourselves and drive safety awareness and see if it spreads from there?

Beyond on-board cameras, I'd also suggest Nesba and/or the track consider having on-track cameras rolling that may capture incidents or situations to provide data/feedback and most importantly visibility to what is actually occurring on track. If folks know that their actions are always visible (and they can be held accountable) I think it will drive compliance to the rules more. It won't fix everything but could provide some new tools to assist in enforcement. The CRs/staff do what they can to enforce the rules but that can only see/do so much.

If setup correctly you could also sell that footage to riders to pay for the equipment investment or perhaps contract it out to the photographers already there?

Think Russian dash-cams and speed/red-light cameras- applied technology!

 

[Dave561]

HondaGalToo;290784 wrote: Thought I was done with this thread. Little sarcasm, there, Dave? I would have hoped that you and others would take at least some of the suggestions to heart. When you mock it like that, as a director, it makes me think that nothing is going to change, and none of the decent suggestions are going to be considered. I would hope that's not the case. It would be nice if tech would go back to opening promptly at 7 and closing promptly at 8, rather than letting the late-comers impact the day for those of us who show up on time. Maybe it's a staffing issue at the crowded days? I don't know.

Now I'm done. Peace, guys. Ride safe!

I have taken advice from members and I have been adjusting based on the outcome of the days. I have tried to be more direct in my meetings and not a single rider says, yeah I can't ride like that or those are stupid rules, I need to be able to pass up the inside. Everyone nods their heads and says they understand what an inside pass is and yet it happens. We called all the Intermediate riders in for a lunch time meeting and tried to get a readjustment of attitude and in the afternoon everything flowed better. Also sent one guy home. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

So where does that put us. Like I said, spent all day riding in B and I. Only rode one session in A maybe 2 all weekend. I sent numerous riders into the pits on Sunday. But never the same rider twice. Chased an A guy down in B, that mis-heard a call. Sent him back to the pits.

We have a SOP in place and we follow it. We also can not fix anything on a board. We can talk about fixes and the good suggetsions are being evaluated, but the mob mentality was starting to take over, so yeah, I went overboard to shut that down.

If you want to be director for the day, let me know. I am sure you will see this in a whole differnt light. Perhaps you would do this much better than I. I get the feeling you have no trust in me, so if that's the case I'll resign. The huge salary of $0 will need to be absorbed by my day job, but I'll manage.

 

[HondaGalToo]

I've noticed improvements this year in the riders meetings. Thank you for that. No, I don't want to be director, and I'm sure I would NOT do a better job than you. I know you guys were proactive on Sunday with rules enforcement and tracking people down and sitting them out. I have seen improvements with this year for sure, and it's appreciated.

I was only pointing out that your sarcasm, as a director, comes across (to me at least) that you won't take things seriously. Now, I know that's not the case, but sarcasm is really inappropriate.

 

[Dave561]

Some will take it for what it is and you were offended. So I do apologize to you and anyone else that sees it that way.
I approach this like any professional setting. You wouldnt call a report and berate them in fornt of their colleagues, yet that is where this was headed. That won't happen.

This is a game of trust. We try to put in place a structure that allows for that trust. We also do monitor evry group and in fact have been publicly berated numerous times for being safety nazis. A little extreme I think but everyone has an opinion. I'll listen and evaluate any constructive fedback but I need to hear it trackside, real time to really act upon it.

So please everyone, if you see something that doesn't sit right with you. Don't tell me after the evnt. Tell me then. Right after the session, at lunch, but all we can do is talk theory on a board. A good plan is only as good as those that execute it and we need everyone to help with that execution

 

[HondaGalToo]

Fair enough. If I see bad behavior I'll let you know. At the event. Sometimes I just feel I have no right to complain because I'm a slow A group rider. And I can't usually get a number, as it's on the front of the bike often times.

I do know you guys have a tough job, and I've seen a lot more proactive stuff this year and it's much appreciated. I appreciate nesba's strict rules; it's why I'm still around.

Despite the sarcasm, I'm glad things are being taken seriously. Sometimes I feel like I should just shut up and go away. I can do that. Mostly I try and post things that will help someone out.

Season's over for me, I didn't ride as much this year, but I was glad to get back out there. Last winter I wasn't sure I would. And more importantly, I finished the year unscathed. Next season I hope to focus more on improving my riding again. This was a year to just get back out and see how I felt about it. So, understandably, I get wound up when I hear of someone being taken out. It scares me, because I know it can happen to me again.

Thanks for providing as safe an environment as possible, I know that's damned hard sometimes depending on who shows up that day. Your efforts don't go unnoticed, believe me.

Hope to see you next season. Onward and upward.:cheers:

 

[JRA]

Here's my contribution.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Very true. Lots of things go on behind the scenes that is only known by the CR's.

The first course of action is to try and handle problems without penalizing the majority of people who aren't causing any. It isn't fair to involve the 95% of riders who never cause problems in a lecture or some kind of discipline.

When the "behind the scenes" efforts aren't working we have to become more visible with enforcement, and there have even been a couple of times where I have told all riders of a particular group that we would ride parade laps for the rest of the day with zero passing if things don't change immediately. Fortunately I haven't had to actually do that yet but I can and I will if it's required.

Of course most times we can handle issues without interrupting the day for the majority of riders, and even though we occasionally have "those days" where it's just a big cluster, the vast majority of days go very smoothly.

We also can not fix anything on a board. We can talk about fixes and the good suggetsions are being evaluated, but the mob mentality was starting to take over,

You can't fix anything on a message board ever, and as is evidenced by this thread and others, things are taken to the extreme and all that does is get people's ire up. If in my first experience with a club I was exposed to some of the things that have been suggested here I wouldn't come back after my fist day; assuming I stayed the whole day.

Here is the bottom line.

If you have a problem on the track with another rider you come and see me or another director about it. Come with some information that we can so that we can use to identify the problem rider and either go talk to him, or watch him to see how he's riding. Don't tell me how I should handle a situation, just trust that if there is anything I can do I will do it.