Calling all NESBA Members!!!
- Thread starter Nesba
- Start date
willhf1011
New Member
Spoke with another member here (jwlman) and we will be happy to write a formal cancellation policy that could be added the the riders manual since it lacks one now. It can address notification, attendance, timing, credits, and late fees. You can then look it over and make adjustments or if there is a committee formed by then they can review it.
Bob if you would prefer to PM some of the specifics regarding the topics I posted above, we can word/incorporate them a little differently in what we write up.
Once everyone agrees on the policy, it can stand as a guide for how to set situations are handled.
Let me know what you think.
CBRtist
Well-Known Member
Will, great enthusiasm and willingness to participate, but I think we should have a more organized volunteer effort instead of submitting random, individual ideas. That's the problem with a lot of threads on here.
My proposal, and to answer Bob's question, is:
Plan = Volunteer Committees
Who Manages = Volunteers
How? Well a few of us (I included and others who I know are interested) determine WHAT committees there needs to be, see who is interested, and then people sign up. So... for instance, there is a New Member Services committee. Your buddy jwlman points out that maybe there should be something added to the manual. That is put on the "to do" list. All ideas are presented as a whole to admin, and they are approved (or not approved)... and it gets done by that individual. Easy peasy.
hurricanejohn
Member
Sounds a little too exclusive to me and we need inclusion in the worst kind of way here. Forget who is an innie or an outie - all are welcome, come into the light......
I sat on a Board of Directors a few years ago that had 26 members. Long story short nothing ever got accomplished - too many personal agendas/opinions/directions and poor attendance. Some people seek those positions simply to build a resume too and attendance was terrible - most times we met we didn't even have a quorum and no business could be conducted. Most of those on the Board should have been volunteeers not Board members as they didn't understand what a Board does. It doesn't manage the company, it manages those that manage the company.
My vote is to submit individual names and qualifications to Bob and let Bob determine who should do what. Figuring out what committees are needed is easy - putting the proper people on those committees is the tricky part.
HJ
Or we could just sign up for events and not wuss out when it rains so the event can take place.
Kill Elite membership and go back to it being earned not bought I think I paid about $3500 for my first elite membership by riding the required amount of days that now gets sold for $200. Either go back to go forward or make the price something realistic. For the privilege of signing up late and bailing last min the value is waaaaay more than $200.
Seriously the enthusiasm here is great but butts on bikes at the track is a way easier solution then no need for a cancellation policy.
Kill Elite membership and go back to it being earned not bought I think I paid about $3500 for my first elite membership by riding the required amount of days that now gets sold for $200. Either go back to go forward or make the price something realistic. For the privilege of signing up late and bailing last min the value is waaaaay more than $200.
Seriously the enthusiasm here is great but butts on bikes at the track is a way easier solution then no need for a cancellation policy.
HondaGalToo
Control Rider
:agree: That's what a few of us were trying to say. Get rid of the "crazy eddie" pricing. Seems like it's not working. Lower price means you need even more riders. Earning Elite by riding 12 events was a good incentive, methinks.
Still, with the cheap prices, not sure why we aren't getting enough people.
CBRtist
Well-Known Member
HJ, given your expertise, I'll defer to your solution. Will be on standby to be included should you need me. Please post updates as this plan progresses.
I'm trying to recall what I posted regarding a "board" or was I pushing a volunteer organization to alleviate some of the pressures of admin? No matter. Potato, po-tah-to I'm sure.
All the best. You have my email, but clearly you don't need it
Now back to my unicorns, rainbows and upcoming TD. Ahhhh....
MrStretch
New Member
I am very pleased with NESBA's pricing and membership perks. I have a membership with another track club as well. (this is my first year trying NESBA out). They have the same issues that NESBA has regarding enough people signed up at time of the event. I get the e-mails from them more than I do from NESBA.
BUT.... They also have another problem that NESBA doesn't have. And that is members at their track days telling everyone how much better the program is over at a competitors club (NESBA). The word is spreading like fire about how fair NESBA's policies are to the riders.(100% credit if you have to cancel is on of the biggest selling points I hear from people.)
My suggestion would be to put the pricing at tiers based upon how early a person registers for an event. (Like the airlines do) Or as the spaces start filling up. (Like the airlines do). This would be a good for people like me who throw their money into the pot early, as well as make the ones who wait last minute pay premium pricing.
BUT.... They also have another problem that NESBA doesn't have. And that is members at their track days telling everyone how much better the program is over at a competitors club (NESBA). The word is spreading like fire about how fair NESBA's policies are to the riders.(100% credit if you have to cancel is on of the biggest selling points I hear from people.)
My suggestion would be to put the pricing at tiers based upon how early a person registers for an event. (Like the airlines do) Or as the spaces start filling up. (Like the airlines do). This would be a good for people like me who throw their money into the pot early, as well as make the ones who wait last minute pay premium pricing.
HondaGalToo
Control Rider
Good info, MrStretch. Nice to hear, actually.
With regards to pricing, if they still sell Elite, maybe it should cost a bit more. Ruhe mentioned the value is way more than $200 and I'd agree. One cancellation basically pays for it. I'm not up on other clubs' membership fees, but I believe a similar membership with as many great perks as the Elite would cost more with another org. Not that I'm looking to spend more money, I'm not. I really enjoyed the pricing structure this year! But if it's not allowing nesba to pay the bills, that's not good. Only the admins can check out the books and determine if it should continue and how.
Overall, I think the Elite membership and packages are great, but not if they're not generating enough funds to keep the club afloat.
As I'd mentioned, maybe it's not the problem, as other clubs are experiencing low turn out as well, without the generous cancellation fees.
With regards to pricing, if they still sell Elite, maybe it should cost a bit more. Ruhe mentioned the value is way more than $200 and I'd agree. One cancellation basically pays for it. I'm not up on other clubs' membership fees, but I believe a similar membership with as many great perks as the Elite would cost more with another org. Not that I'm looking to spend more money, I'm not. I really enjoyed the pricing structure this year! But if it's not allowing nesba to pay the bills, that's not good. Only the admins can check out the books and determine if it should continue and how.
Overall, I think the Elite membership and packages are great, but not if they're not generating enough funds to keep the club afloat.
As I'd mentioned, maybe it's not the problem, as other clubs are experiencing low turn out as well, without the generous cancellation fees.
Psychoholic
Member
I am definitely in the camp that thinks that NESBA runs a great event, but so do other major orgs. I ride with pretty much whoever is running at tracks local to me because it's more economically feasible for me (more of a matter of timing - my weekends are usually pretty full already, so I pretty much have to dedicate Friday afternoon until mid-Sunday if I'm going to go somewhere other than Road Atlanta). Maybe I'm just not experienced enough to understand the finer nuances that make the organizations better or worse, but the conversation with my friends is usually:
'Track day at RA on X date."
"Hell yeah, I'm in."
With no real consideration of which group is doing it. (as an aside too, those who reference paying a premium for the integrity of a NESBA event, I'd like to mention that the other major org that runs essentially the same tracks is on average $40 more per date plus a membership fee).
I think you have to look at your sales leaders versus perceived loss leaders. If you are almost selling out places like Road Atlanta and Barber, but don't have enough sales to fund an NJMP weekday event, then it might be worth (to the local members) taking a loss on a few of those days by pooling money from the bigger spots that have higher attendance and having a few more of those bigger days to put money in the coffer.
I used to rent Silver Dollar Raceway twice a year with a Mustang group I was president of, and we figured out what the take at the gate needed to be and the number of cars that we needed to attend in order to pay for the track and all the staff, ambulances, insurance, etc... I know there is a matter of scale difference, but the theory should be essentially the same. We didn't make money hand over fist, but we were able to pocket enough to cover short days in the long term.
'Track day at RA on X date."
"Hell yeah, I'm in."
With no real consideration of which group is doing it. (as an aside too, those who reference paying a premium for the integrity of a NESBA event, I'd like to mention that the other major org that runs essentially the same tracks is on average $40 more per date plus a membership fee).
I think you have to look at your sales leaders versus perceived loss leaders. If you are almost selling out places like Road Atlanta and Barber, but don't have enough sales to fund an NJMP weekday event, then it might be worth (to the local members) taking a loss on a few of those days by pooling money from the bigger spots that have higher attendance and having a few more of those bigger days to put money in the coffer.
I used to rent Silver Dollar Raceway twice a year with a Mustang group I was president of, and we figured out what the take at the gate needed to be and the number of cars that we needed to attend in order to pay for the track and all the staff, ambulances, insurance, etc... I know there is a matter of scale difference, but the theory should be essentially the same. We didn't make money hand over fist, but we were able to pocket enough to cover short days in the long term.
mjkuhno
Member
Let me start by saying that when I was still in PA I had the choice of 3 organizations to run with at NJMP. After checking each out over the course of 2 years I'd pretty much decided that NESBA was the one for me. Combination of how track days were run and the level of riding/professionalism of the org that led to my decision. That has not changed in the following years.
One suggestion I have, that seems like it might be working for another organization, would be to send all NESBA members an email leading up to scheduled dates to drum up attendance. Now, I realize this has been started lately, but what I'm seeing from another org is:
Red Flag - attendance level is insufficient - need to get registered members or event is at risk
Yellow Flag - attendance is close, but not quite there yet - need a few more registered riders
Green Flag - attendance is sufficient to run the event and all systems go
I've received a number of these emails from the other org over the summer (seems like they're primarily sent when an event has low registrations initially) and they must work; because after they're sent they always seem to be followed up with a green flag email.
Just an idea that might help communicate a bit more/better and help with turnout.
BTW - note that I still continue to get information/notifications from the other track-day organization even though I didn't renew my membership with them this year. Good communication though and promotion by the club helps keep them in mind - which is always good brand building. I'm not sure if NESBA does this as well, but it might be worth reaching out to members who may have let their membership lapse (accidentally of course) and try to bring them back into the fold.
Seriously, we have a great thing going here folks and we need to try to do whatever we can to keep it going.
BTW - out of the 12 track days I've done so far this year 4 have been wet events (including the last VIR North day which was basically a rain out). While I didn't particularly love the weather (though I do know some who ENJOY riding in the rain - cough: Tex) I feel like it helps me become a better/smoother rider (at least that's what I keep telling myself). Now I can understand how others might not want to ride in the wet, and I saw plenty of people never heading out at the last North event and heading home before 9, but we need to find a good balance as an organization or else we'll all lose out in the long run.
One suggestion I have, that seems like it might be working for another organization, would be to send all NESBA members an email leading up to scheduled dates to drum up attendance. Now, I realize this has been started lately, but what I'm seeing from another org is:
Red Flag - attendance level is insufficient - need to get registered members or event is at risk
Yellow Flag - attendance is close, but not quite there yet - need a few more registered riders
Green Flag - attendance is sufficient to run the event and all systems go
I've received a number of these emails from the other org over the summer (seems like they're primarily sent when an event has low registrations initially) and they must work; because after they're sent they always seem to be followed up with a green flag email.
Just an idea that might help communicate a bit more/better and help with turnout.
BTW - note that I still continue to get information/notifications from the other track-day organization even though I didn't renew my membership with them this year. Good communication though and promotion by the club helps keep them in mind - which is always good brand building. I'm not sure if NESBA does this as well, but it might be worth reaching out to members who may have let their membership lapse (accidentally of course) and try to bring them back into the fold.
Seriously, we have a great thing going here folks and we need to try to do whatever we can to keep it going.
BTW - out of the 12 track days I've done so far this year 4 have been wet events (including the last VIR North day which was basically a rain out). While I didn't particularly love the weather (though I do know some who ENJOY riding in the rain - cough: Tex) I feel like it helps me become a better/smoother rider (at least that's what I keep telling myself). Now I can understand how others might not want to ride in the wet, and I saw plenty of people never heading out at the last North event and heading home before 9, but we need to find a good balance as an organization or else we'll all lose out in the long run.
hurricanejohn
Member
Actually sent you an email yesterday about 15 minutes after you pinged with my cell number and asked you to call me......:dunno:CBRtist;289737 wrote: HJ, given your expertise, I'll defer to your solution. Will be on standby to be included should you need me. Please post updates as this plan progresses.
I'm trying to recall what I posted regarding a "board" or was I pushing a volunteer organization to alleviate some of the pressures of admin? No matter. Potato, po-tah-to I'm sure.
All the best. You have my email, but clearly you don't need it
Now back to my unicorns, rainbows and upcoming TD. Ahhhh....
HJ
Unbroken13
Member
I started a little late this year.... But we had pretty much those 3 canceled events... That's not bad... And hell 2 of those events only had 3 weeks notice to fill... Seems to me everything is fine... I like my elite membership and the fact that I can sign up late... Just saying
Kruizen
Control Rider
My take on why these 3 days failed is that NESBA dropped the ball in (housekeeping) these events.
Bob and everyone please don't take this as a personal attack.
If the main page schedule matched the events registration schedule people would have seen the Summit main date. better/earlier comminucation about needing people to sign up.
The SED dates should have been opened up earlier, flat out this was a major issue.
Ideas for next year:
Simple housekeeping ideas
1. make sure events page matches registration page
2. clean up registration page-get rid of any dates that can't be booked(summit dates this year)
3. taper off events toward the end of the year(I know I'm way over budget now), so people choose ealier which events they plan on attending.
4. Dont schedule 2 track days for the same weekend that are less than 5hrs drive apart. You seem to be diluting the membership base between these events.
5. I don't really know why the regions are so polarized? We are all NESBA. Ive heard "I only ride x region" -don't know a fix for this.
6. Set a GO/NO GO date for events-and communicate that with members. at 7 days from events most people can either cancel their vacation day or arrange to work somehow. They are not burning a vacation day, they can then use said vacation day for another NESBA day later.
7. Ensure that you will have enough CR's to effectively control a day. Seen a couple of days where they are calling for CR's to line up in B & I group.
8. Communicate/market about events that are upcoming, not just the specials(example: sumit Shennandoah)
SED Days
1. Open them at the beginning of the year or early-mid year
2. you have already elminated them from the packages, take that further:
a. make them non-refundable/cancelable(even for elite)
b. allow them to be transferrable(already are)
c. Open them earlier.
Make the SED days a highly sought after commodity, that once they are sold they are sold, and you have to wait for someone else to give up their position. 3 weeks prior is difficut for most people to schedule 2 mid-week days off.
If they had been opened earlier i.e. June, I would have made sure I went, but since they weren't open I didn't know if they were going to happen or not so I didn't plan on them.
I don't know the overall health of NESBA financially, and I may be way off base but these are my throughts take them how you will. I have loved riding with NESBA, and 3 canceled days that I have seen isn't that bad. It was how/when they were canceled that seemed to set people off.
Bob and everyone please don't take this as a personal attack.
If the main page schedule matched the events registration schedule people would have seen the Summit main date. better/earlier comminucation about needing people to sign up.
The SED dates should have been opened up earlier, flat out this was a major issue.
Ideas for next year:
Simple housekeeping ideas
1. make sure events page matches registration page
2. clean up registration page-get rid of any dates that can't be booked(summit dates this year)
3. taper off events toward the end of the year(I know I'm way over budget now), so people choose ealier which events they plan on attending.
4. Dont schedule 2 track days for the same weekend that are less than 5hrs drive apart. You seem to be diluting the membership base between these events.
5. I don't really know why the regions are so polarized? We are all NESBA. Ive heard "I only ride x region" -don't know a fix for this.
6. Set a GO/NO GO date for events-and communicate that with members. at 7 days from events most people can either cancel their vacation day or arrange to work somehow. They are not burning a vacation day, they can then use said vacation day for another NESBA day later.
7. Ensure that you will have enough CR's to effectively control a day. Seen a couple of days where they are calling for CR's to line up in B & I group.
8. Communicate/market about events that are upcoming, not just the specials(example: sumit Shennandoah)
SED Days
1. Open them at the beginning of the year or early-mid year
2. you have already elminated them from the packages, take that further:
a. make them non-refundable/cancelable(even for elite)
b. allow them to be transferrable(already are)
c. Open them earlier.
Make the SED days a highly sought after commodity, that once they are sold they are sold, and you have to wait for someone else to give up their position. 3 weeks prior is difficut for most people to schedule 2 mid-week days off.
If they had been opened earlier i.e. June, I would have made sure I went, but since they weren't open I didn't know if they were going to happen or not so I didn't plan on them.
I don't know the overall health of NESBA financially, and I may be way off base but these are my throughts take them how you will. I have loved riding with NESBA, and 3 canceled days that I have seen isn't that bad. It was how/when they were canceled that seemed to set people off.
USMC_10
New Member
This is good stuff guys. Kruizen I think you're spot on with most of your ideas, with the most significant (IMO) being the need to ensure both registration page and main website page match. It took me until late August this season just to realize they don't. As a result I'm sure I missed a few track days that I would have otherwise sign up for.
Mjkuhno, that flag system does seem to work with the other organization, and I think that too is a great idea. Rather than e-mailing it out for each track day, the flag system should be codified within the event registration page, so all riders can see event status prior to and during registration. For example, right now there is an icon next to the check box when folks register, sometimes it looks like a note or page. That would be a good place to display the flag color system. That is brilliant as it would allow all to see the status of each track day while registering. Events close to being run but are still red or yellow would help the member make a decision to chose that day or run the risk of no one being able to ride.
I really thing we should formalize this somehow and present it to Bob for a decision. I'm not sure these posts are sufficient.
Mjkuhno, that flag system does seem to work with the other organization, and I think that too is a great idea. Rather than e-mailing it out for each track day, the flag system should be codified within the event registration page, so all riders can see event status prior to and during registration. For example, right now there is an icon next to the check box when folks register, sometimes it looks like a note or page. That would be a good place to display the flag color system. That is brilliant as it would allow all to see the status of each track day while registering. Events close to being run but are still red or yellow would help the member make a decision to chose that day or run the risk of no one being able to ride.
I really thing we should formalize this somehow and present it to Bob for a decision. I'm not sure these posts are sufficient.
Nesba
New Member
Good stuff here...and most of its accurate. Would you be willing to take over some of the tasks associated with these issues? I am really interested in keeping members involved in all aspects of the club. Let me know if you have any interest in managing these issues going forward.