Judy....????

[j_fuggin_t]

Dang sorry to hear about the off.. I had a big one this year at ccs from oil in turn 2 at Blackhawk. I fortunately walked away without even a bruise. I hope you heal up well and keep your spirits of this sport high. Don't leave on someone elses account but only your own decision. It sucks when someone else is the reason for your crash & it sucks he/she didnt seek you out to apologize or make sure you were ok. If they were in over their head I can't imagine it was the entire time. Sometimes we have a moment where we hit a corner just right and the speed is all there and all of sudden it's too late and we panic. As was mentioned earlier it all happens in the blink of an eye.

I sincerely wish you a speedy recovery and you choose to continue this sport.

 

[HondaGalToo]

j_fuggin_t;255084 wrote: It sucks when someone else is the reason for your crash & it sucks he/she didnt seek you out to apologize or make sure you were ok..

He did come over, but I think it was "suggested" he do so. I didn't recognize him. His apology just pissed me off. This was before I went downhill and went to the hospital. All he could say was "sorry, it was my fault, but these things happen. I've been taken out at a race". Well the last time I checked, this wasn't racing.

And JRA, there's plenty of riders who won't make bad decisions like this, they will back off. Not saying even the best won't make a mistake at some point, but I still say there's no reason for this. It's a trackday, dial it back a bit. By his own admission, there were 6 or so riders in front of him. He had to have passed 3-4 of them over wheelie hill, then just made it past Chris (who was right behind me) before t-boning me off the track. When he saw that many riders in front of him he had a choice. He could have chosen to slow down and work his way around them one at a time. Instead, it seems he made the decision to try and get past all of them. That's my understanding anyway. Like Ken and Nick say, one of the biggest reasons for crashing is overconfidence. He had that in spades, apparently. I'm sure his version would probably differ, but I don't see how. Even if you think you can make all those passes, it doesn't mean you should at a trackday. It's not a race. I suppose I get your point, but I'm really angry right now. I don't think there is an excuse. People need to think out there.

 

[JRA]

Judy, I wasn't defending the rider who hit you. Obviously I wasn't there, and by all accounts this was a huge misjudgement on his part. There is no excuse for taking another rider out , end of story. I was just speaking to the mentality of "kicking ass" if somebody else does something stupid. Nobody hits anybody else on purpose, and my point was that people use bad judgement and make mistakes just by the nature of being human. Before anybody starts saying what they're going to do if they get taken out, they better consider that they aren't immune from making their own mistakes. Maybe not such a blatant one as this, but even less egregious miscalculations can lead to contact. Karma in the sport is a bitch. As soon as you start throwing rocks you're bound to get hit.

 

[ZxRegg6r]

Hey Judy, I never met ya face to face but I think we got bumped to A_group around the same time. Glad to see your OK. I saw ya on the ground (thankfully moving) then saw the bike during red flag lap. Anything wreckless at THAT fast a$$ corner cause for a very serious situation to happen. Thank God it wasn't worse ( Can walk or hop away to live another day). Heal up soon, hope to see ya back out there next season.

Regg Thomas

 

[j_fuggin_t]

HondaGalToo;255094 wrote: He did come over, but I think it was "suggested" he do so. I didn't recognize him. His apology just pissed me off. This was before I went downhill and went to the hospital. All he could say was "sorry, it was my fault, but these things happen. I've been taken out at a race". Well the last time I checked, this wasn't racing.

not cool.. hell if i've made a questionable pass the first thing i do is find them at their pits BEFORE i even get my helmet off & make my apology, because of your last statement.. its not racing

 

[matt2212]

Judy,

Heal up quick, I am very glad this did not end up worse and I would be VERY mad if this happened to me, but I hope as time goes by and you heal you decide to continue in this sport, but I understand either way.

As for retribution to the person at fault, I learned a very hard lesson when I was younger, and that was that it is not my job to hand out karma. He will get what is coming to him all on his own.

 

[noobinacan]

HondaGalToo;255094 wrote: He did come over, but I think it was "suggested" he do so. I didn't recognize him. His apology just pissed me off. This was before I went downhill and went to the hospital. All he could say was "sorry, it was my fault, but these things happen. I've been taken out at a race".

wow...really ? reeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaly ???? that's a lame ass apology.:argh::shutit:
its same as saying
"I'm sorry, but in my heart I'm NOT sorry and I don't care, too bad for you"

at least man up on your apology.

 

[CBRtist]

HondaGalToo;255024 wrote: IF I get up the nerve to continue in this sport,
HondaGalToo;255041 wrote: That one split second could have been life-changing or life ending for me. Fortunately it wasn't........ I just have to decide if I can continue to accept them.

This is a deeply personal decision and I hope you do a lot of soul-searching during your off time and come to a conclusion that sits well with you. I know that your presence, advice, and insight would be missed.

A lot of people got pretty shaken up last year, and did a bit of thinking in their down time. It seriously impacted the decision whether or not I was even going to do a TD myself, much less how I felt about my husband and friends continuing the sport.

I'm not certain if it would be a possibility via NESBA, or if you would be open to it... but based on your maturity, expertise, recent experience, and how well you are at communication... perhaps you could talk a bit about this in future rider's meetings? Just a thought... may be impactful to other riders and helpful in your recovery. If not, I'm sure your tale would go a long way one-on-one.

 

[Pseudolus]

JRA;255099 wrote: Before anybody starts saying what they're going to do if they get taken out, they better consider that they aren't immune from making their own mistakes. Karma in the sport is a bitch. As soon as you start throwing rocks you're bound to get hit.

Well this forum helped me learn something new yet again. I privately had vowed, assuming I'm able to walk, to phuk up any idiot who caused something like this to happen to me. JRA's post helped me realize that it never truly is intentional, just a case of poor decision making. I'm now thinking about how Biaggi T-boned Haslam a few weeks back. Yes it was a race and he was profusely apologetic but JRA's post and the Biaggi incident reminded me that it can happen to anyone, so I won't throw stones.

How about a Board of Directors who reviews the cause of crashes, determines the liabilty, and the liable person is responsible for the repairs to any other bike involved. Every NESBA member could agree to the post crash review process when joining and their liability if found guilty? I hear at Nurburghring, if you crash into the wall, you pay to replace the panels.....

Not trying to make this great organization bound by more Legalese but it seems a few bad apples need to be reigned in and aren't willing to do it themselves. Financial penalties are often a great motivator.

 

[Dave561]

Pseudolus;255136 wrote: How about a Board of Directors who reviews the cause of crashes, determines the liabilty, and the liable person is responsible for the repairs to any other bike involved. Every NESBA member could agree to the post crash review process when joining and their liability if found guilty?

ABSOLUTELY NOT! Sorry, but this is a no fault sport and we on entry into the sport accept the fact that we show up with a bike and can go home with a box. There is no way you want to open this up to litigation and assignment of fault. If we go that route in any way, we will never turn a wheel on track again since the insurance and lawyers wll destroy the sport

EDIT: Not a personal attack, but this can not happen.

 

[rk97]

j_fuggin_t;255109 wrote: not cool.. hell if i've made a questionable pass the first thing i do is find them at their pits BEFORE i even get my helmet off & make my apology, because of your last statement.. its not racing

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not always in the best frame of mind for an apology immediately after a shitty pass or a crash. You take me out and come to apologize as my bike is coming off the crash truck, and I definitely don't want to be hearing it right then.

Once i'm out of my leathers, have had some time to cool off, and am starting to actually feel the bumps and bruises, THEN I'm in a rational enough state of mind to graciously accept an apology.

$.02

 

[bigkaley]

Pseudolus;255136 wrote: I'm now thinking about how Biaggi T-boned Haslam a few weeks back. Yes it was a race and he was profusely apologetic but JRA's post and the Biaggi incident reminded me that it can happen to anyone, so I won't throw stones.

As you stated, with Biaggi and Haslam it was a race. With Trackdays, we are all out here to try to improve/ develop our riding abilities without the pressure of the racing environment. That was the reason for starting Trackdays in the beginning... a bunch of ex-racers who still had the passion of riding, were finished with racing, and needed the outlet of riding in a controlled environment.

What needs to be stressed is that we all, as riders, can only control our own individual rides, but our mindset (Trackday... NOT racing) has to consider others....

 

[bigkaley]

rk97;255138 wrote: I can only speak for myself, but I'm not always in the best frame of mind for an apology immediately after a shitty pass or a crash. You take me out and come to apologize as my bike is coming off the crash truck, and I definitely don't want to be hearing it right then.

Once i'm out of my leathers, have had some time to cool off, and am starting to actually feel the bumps and bruises, THEN I'm in a rational enough state of mind to graciously accept an apology.

$.02

But if that rider did not come over immediately to try to apologize, how would that come across?...

 

[Pseudolus]

Dave561;255137 wrote: ABSOLUTELY NOT! Sorry, but this is a no fault sport and we on entry into the sport accept the fact that we show up with a bike and can go home with a box. There is no way you want to open this up to litigation and assignment of fault. If we go that route in any way, we will never turn a wheel on track again since the insurance and lawyers wll destroy the sport

I had a feeling you had already thought about this at some point! That "no fault" idea is admirable, but obviously hard to swallow when you're on the ground screaming IT WAS THEIR FAULT! LOL

I think I may have to move ahead with the whole only weekday Track days plan to try and limit the high testerone riders I saw on Saturday. Friday was AMAZING though!

Best wishes again Judy! Hopefully you're using the IPAs to ice the swelling!

 

[Dave561]

Pseudolus;255141 wrote: Hopefully you're using the IPAs to ice the swelling!

Now that's some advice I can happily agree with :cheers:

 

[rk97]

bigkaley;255140 wrote: But if that rider did not come over immediately to try to apologize, how would that come across?...

like they didn't want their head bitten off because they know they effed up and realize the other rider has a right to be mad at them? Judy said herself that "his apology just pissed me off." (or something substantially identical to that)

I'm just saying that inferring meaning from lack of action isn't always fair. What if both parties assume the other is at fault and they're both waiting for the other person to come apologize?


I wouldn't support a "review board" for all the reasons Dave mentioned, but maybe the parties involved should be required to meet with the director as a group and at least discuss what happened. That would apply an even burden to all parties involved as far as approaching each other.

 

[Ducati Pete]

Repercussions

Dave561;255137 wrote: ABSOLUTELY NOT! Sorry, but this is a no fault sport and we on entry into the sport accept the fact that we show up with a bike and can go home with a box. There is no way you want to open this up to litigation and assignment of fault. If we go that route in any way, we will never turn a wheel on track again since the insurance and lawyers wll destroy the sport

I agree with this statement wholeheartedly! Even as a new TD rider, I completely accept the total responsibility of me and my bike's outcome at day's end.

BUT, if the person whom ran into Judy was being this aggressive, passing a number of bikes in one hot shot, I think his grouping needs to be assessed. If a person is allowed to ride in A group, or wherever, one of the qualities they must possess is sound judgement. It appears to me this person made a huge miscalculation based on poor judgement and should be assessed as a NESBA rider in whole.

Overly and continuously aggressive riders should be banned from NESBA and sent to TPM or ??? OR, maybe a new Handbook by-line can be added stating that if someone were to cause an accident like this, they immediately get kicked back one group and start the process again. For them to be reinstated to their original group, they need to show they have learned to make better choices on the track. There needs to be some repercussion for causing someone either a loss of health or equipment. In our world the only way to get people to change is to hit them in the pocketbook or their status. Nobody on the track can be held financially responsible for anyone else. So, status it is. Put the Dunce Cap on them and make them stand in the corner for a while.

This is not racing in any shape nor form. It's supposed to be a fun personally challenging weekend of riding. The level of safety is exactly why I ride with NESBA and will only continue to ride NESBA as long as my only challenge is the challenge of thy self.

Just my ignorant two cents,
Pete

 

[rk97]

Ducati Pete;255145 wrote:

BUT, if the person whom ran into Judy was being this aggressive, passing a number of bikes in one hot shot, I think his grouping needs to be assessed. If a person is allowed to ride in A group, or wherever, one of the qualities they must possess is sound judgement. It appears to me this person made a huge miscalculation based on poor judgement and should be assessed as a NESBA rider in whole.

I believe that was evaluated and addressed at the track when the incident took place. There's already way too much Monday-morning quarterbacking going on in this thread. Hell, a couple of people have tried to light the torches and started to pass out pitchforks without really knowing what happened.

The fact that we're all friends with Judy certainly isn't helping him out any...

 

[Meat]

I am with John Allen on the idea of people making mistakes. And I really think Judy is an awesome chick and did really get upset when I found out she was taken out.

Maybe the guy was honestly a careless jerk but if I ever make a mistake that takes someone out, I really do hope that people don't think it was intentional.

I was taken out in a CCS race a year and a half ago. I broke ribs, concussion, usual stuff. Yes it was a race but I know for sure he really never intended to take me out. I considered him a friend at the races, and he was really a super nice, considerate and respectful guy. He just made an error and took me out as he crashed.

My situation sounds different from Judy's. I probably would be pretty darn pissed off if I was in Judy's situation. But, in my crash I was bummed but was honestly in no way pissed at the other guy. He had always ridden in control and, like I said, we were friends and I alway looked forward to racing with him.

 

[Ducati Pete]

rk97;255144 wrote: I wouldn't support a "review board" for all the reasons Dave mentioned, but maybe the parties involved should be required to meet with the director as a group and at least discuss what happened. That would apply an even burden to all parties involved as far as approaching each other.

I agree with this statement completely. I feel getting everything put on the table as soon as possible would be a great learning experience for everyone, including bystanders. PLUS....... it forces people to Man-up (or Woman-up) to what just happened. Getting called to the Principles Office is a distasteful action and one that none of us would wish to do. Kinda like losing face.