New Transfer Rules

[rac_wv]

I noticed a couple of changes to credit transfers in the new manual. Thought they should be posted here.

7. Credits issued after 1/1/2011 are subject to a 15% surcharge
if transferred to another member and will expire after 365
days from the date of issue. For example, if a member has $50
credits in account, the member can transfer a maximum of
$42.50 with $7.50 forfeited to transfer surcharge. **See
event cancellation policy for exceptions.

8. Credits existing in member accounts prior to 1/1/2011, may
be transferred one time without surcharge and will expire no
later than 12/31/2011.

19. If credits are used for an event which the member
subsequently canceled, the credits will retain the original
date of expiration (i.e. credit 365 day expiration date will not
begin from date of event cancellation, but rather from the
original date of issue).

 

[aowens2]

So who takes the hit? In the above example, the buyer gives $50 and only recieves 42.50? Or does the buyer only give 42.50 and the 7.50 is removed from the sellers account and goes nesba?

 

[JRA]

The seller and buyer can work out any agreement they want on a transfer. 15% is the charge placed on the transfer and comes out of the available credits in the sellers account.

 

[justintime_3]

WOW Thats all I can say! WOW!

 

[jtsgsxr6]

So much for the booming credit transfer industry.

 

[Blinky]

All I can say is WOW too. NESBAs cool and all but man, sounds like the government now.

 

[2trill357]

Blinky;174010 wrote: All I can say is WOW too. NESBAs cool and all but man, sounds like the government now.

:agree:
I could understand it if there were more than 67 days on the sked, but all these $$$ changes with less trackdays being offered seems kinda awkward to me.

 

[beac83]

I understand that doing the transfers are a PITA for the staff, but a 15% transfer fee seems a bit steep. It seems like NESBA wants to discourage transfers altogether at that surcharge rate.

When combined with the part about credits expiring a year after initially purchased instead of getting a new life, it makes one think twice about buying big blocks of credits in advance.

For instance, I typically buy a years worth of credits in December and January, and then book a whole season's worth of days as soon as the schedule comes out. Last June I broke my wrist in an off at Putnam. I was able to sell many of my days at a small loss due to being able to do those transfers without a surcharge. The days I couldn't sell I canceled and used the credits for about half of the schedule I've signed up for in 2011. Because I bought blocks of credits at a 15% discount and sold the days at about a 20% discount, I only lost about 5% on the whole thing (in addition to costs for repairs to me and my bike after the off).

With the new changes, I'm much less likely to buy $1500-$2000 in credits in January and schedule my days for the season. I'll likely buy in $500 increments as the season progresses, so as not to be caught with expiring credits that have a 15% transfer fee and a hard expiration date if something should happen that makes it impossible for me to complete my intended schedule.

As in all things economic, people will adjust their behavior to minimize their exposure. I'm not sure this will have the effect that the Directors intended, and may in fact impede cash flow for our organization.

I'd be much more comfortable with a $5 minimum or somewhere between 5% and 10% of the credits transferred, whichever is greater as a transfer fee. I would hope that this fee is based on actual costs to the organization and not on trying to place a penalty on these activities in order to discourage them.

This is a club, not a money-making endeavor, and these rule changes strike me (although without any information to validate or invalidate my feelings) as putative. That's not the NESBA I joined.

Any chance this may be revisited?

 

[fitz]

I agree Craig,

A previous post of mine.

fitz;173182 wrote:

I was thinking of buying my credits and pay for the whole year, but in light of this change I will not be doing so. If something happened and I couldn't ride I figured I would be able to sell my credits to another member with a small lose. But now that lose would be twice the amount.

-15% to sell -15% to tranfer = -30%+

$2000 credits for the year = $600 lose

Note: Bonus credits can NOT be transfered.

fitz

Oh and just a very small math FYI- Blocks of $500 are not sold at a 15% discount, you get 15% extra. Think of it as buying $575 for $500 which is actually a 13% discount.

 

[BigBird]

Fitz I also posted this too when i found out a couple weeks ago to warn others.

It just doesn't pay to plan too far in advance anymore.

I suggest everyone RTFM because this isn't your old friendly-neighborhood NESBA anymore. Its a business, being run like a strict business, and that's fine due to the environment, so everyone should know what has changed and not be caught out by surprise.

 

[Blinky]

Whats next. Gate fees and medic bills?

 

[j_fuggin_t]

beac83;174023 wrote: I understand that doing the transfers are a PITA for the staff, but a 15% transfer fee seems a bit steep. It seems like NESBA wants to discourage transfers altogether at that surcharge rate.

When combined with the part about credits expiring a year after initially purchased instead of getting a new life, it makes one think twice about buying big blocks of credits in advance.

For instance, I typically buy a years worth of credits in December and January, and then book a whole season's worth of days as soon as the schedule comes out. Last June I broke my wrist in an off at Putnam. I was able to sell many of my days at a small loss due to being able to do those transfers without a surcharge. The days I couldn't sell I canceled and used the credits for about half of the schedule I've signed up for in 2011. Because I bought blocks of credits at a 15% discount and sold the days at about a 20% discount, I only lost about 5% on the whole thing (in addition to costs for repairs to me and my bike after the off).

With the new changes, I'm much less likely to buy $1500-$2000 in credits in January and schedule my days for the season. I'll likely buy in $500 increments as the season progresses, so as not to be caught with expiring credits that have a 15% transfer fee and a hard expiration date if something should happen that makes it impossible for me to complete my intended schedule.

As in all things economic, people will adjust their behavior to minimize their exposure. I'm not sure this will have the effect that the Directors intended, and may in fact impede cash flow for our organization.

I'd be much more comfortable with a $5 minimum or somewhere between 5% and 10% of the credits transferred, whichever is greater as a transfer fee. I would hope that this fee is based on actual costs to the organization and not on trying to place a penalty on these activities in order to discourage them.

This is a club, not a money-making endeavor, and these rule changes strike me (although without any information to validate or invalidate my feelings) as putative. That's not the NESBA I joined.

Any chance this may be revisited?

:agree: thats ridiculous, there's no way in hell i'd buy more than $500 in credits, and with the midwest schedule the way it is its gonna be tough for me to do near the amount of events i did last year as i'm not gonna be doing JUST road america & blackhawk & blackhawk being the only weekend events w/ the exception of the memorial day & the one sunday event... hate to say it but i'm gonna be riding w/ another org to cure my habit... sorry guys

 

[pefrey]

I don't like it, but I understand it. The aftermarket credit business is booming and it has to be very time consuming for NESBA with no benefit.

I believe the 15% sursharge is to discourage profiteering. Basically, a person can buy $575 worth of credits for $500, and sell them in $100-$200 blocks for a 10% discount, thus turning a profit. Also, if I had expiring credits, I could sell them to my friend, who could sell them back to me thus extending the expiration date by a year.

I guess I'm fine with it overall.

 

[Blinky]

your statement has an error in it my friend. You can't transfer the bonus credits only 500 bucks that you purchase. So you purchase the 500 bucks, yea you get 75 bucks free but you can not transfer this.

Say you get injured around August and you purchased the credits in March and intend to sell to a nesbian. Now since they expire in March, you will get screwed since the Good NESBA calender is not full of track days and they will not give you that year of expiration from the transfer date. So the customer is screwed because he had purchased credits in advance.

IMO this sucks and don't care how you look at it.

 

[jcrich]

Much like the whining and crying over on the WERA board concerning the abolition of the free Classified section and the move to a Pay for Classified section, the same can be said for this. Things are being done in order for the club to hopefully survive what is going on with the economy in this country. Ever time someone sell credits, what do they have to do? Oh right they have to call NESBA and someone has to get involved to effect the transfer of credits. Sounds fair to me that the club is compensated for the time that has to be spent to do this. I don't know if this percentage is fair or not, but it is what it is.

If you do not wish to participate, then do not. It is really that simple. If you enjoy the way the track days are run, enjoy the people you meet, and everything else we like about this club you will adapt. If not you will move on.

 

[Blinky]

Not whining, we people don't like to get screwed. If you like to pay more money for something, be my guest. Plus for people saying that others are volunteering for this organization to help other Nesbians, why not transfer the credits without any fees. This will help out people all the time. Everyone is always trying to back NESBA up about how they need to survive. If NESBA wants to survive in this economy, stop raising and putting extra fees on things that people are having a hard enough time paying in the first place. More Trackdays will keep NESBA afloat not extra fees. You don't increase fees in a hurting economy either, its suicide.

You guys are something else. Less trackdays than previous years with extra fees and you guys want to pay more NESBAs services. All I can say is, you are on some crack...

 

[ninjamansc]

You have no idea what it takes to run a track day organization. If you can't afford this HOBBY, then it's time to move on. There's plenty of other TD orgs out there. We're paying for the higher quality of service and professionalism NESBA provides.

 

[Blinky]

You are assuming I have no clue what it is going on with setting up an organization. You shouldn't assume. Just can back fire on you. Like I can assume you like to pay for your taxes so you can get excellent service back in return from your friendly government. I haven't seen anything worth paying extra for. Its your opinion and lot of us have our own about what is going on.

 

[beac83]

jcrich;174202 wrote: Things are being done in order for the club to hopefully survive what is going on with the economy in this country. Ever time someone sell credits, what do they have to do? Oh right they have to call NESBA and someone has to get involved to effect the transfer of credits. Sounds fair to me that the club is compensated for the time that has to be spent to do this. I don't know if this percentage is fair or not, but it is what it is.

I have absolutely no problem with NESBA passing on the actual costs of managing credit transfers to those who want to transfer them. I even agree that some compensation for the PITA to do the transfers is acceptable.

My gut tells me that handling the transfers does not come close to costing 15%. Most transfers are for the value of a track day or more. So the typical transfer is in the $175-200 range. It takes someone to log into the system, access the two member records and manually subtract from one and add to the other. It probably takes two minutes to do this for each transfer. Is that worth $26.25 ($27) to $30? I think the charge is on the high side towards being a punishment.

I also don't see profiteering in transfers. Most that I see go for 15% off or more, not 10%. Some track days for sold out events are done at 10% - or even at face value for a hot event, but not straight credit transfers. The seller is already at best losing 2% on the deal at a 15% off value transfer. Now it will be a 30% off value transfer, for a total loss of 30% if the credits were bought at face value, and no less than 17% if they bought the credits in blocks that include bonus credits and do the deal at 15% off, plus the new transfer fee.

We have had a very favorable system thus far, and from the new rules I get the impression that the Directors have decided that they want to clamp down on it. I'm not against adjustments, I just think these changes go beyond what is necessary to sustain the organization. I'm very open to some evidence to the contrary, and reserve the right to revise my stance once that is revealed.

Philosophically my stance is : If track day fees aren't covering the costs, lets raise the fees for track days, not nickel and dime members with additional fees.

 

[ninjamansc]

Maybe it's possible that the changes made to the transfer policy are an effort to discourage transfers. Could be that there was an inordinate amount of resources spent on handling them, with no cost to members.

I'm not saying it's right, nor do I know if this is the case. Just spitballin'.