New Transfer Rules

dbakerpa

Member
Key to making customers and staff happy - KISS principle. Now the staff has to transfer credits and account for the surcharge.
Perhaps if this is being misused you could assess the surcharge only to credits transferred more than once. For the poor guy who crashes out and is done for the season you penalize him for not only the discount he has to offer but for the surcharge too. Seems like a bit of dirty pool.
I hate bureaucracy!!!
 

BigBird

Member
borgNSR;174435 wrote: Lucky this is just a policy which can and should be revisited and revised. There are no indications to the membership that a problem existed before the change, and no comment from NESBA directors in this thread (besides a clarification of the accounting). It is of ZERO benefit to members.
Customers...family time seems to be over :(
 

JRA

New Member
None of the new policies that have been put into place have been done to make money. On the business side of things NESBA is not about making money, it's simply about paying the bills. That's become harder to do for economic reasons that should be obvious.

No matter what any of you might believe this club is non profit. WE have one paid employee and that’s Bob Ornduff. Not one other person From Bob B., to DJ, myself, and all of the other directors are getting paid one cent. The core philosophy of this club has always been to try and provide more for our members than other for profit businesses do. This philosophy led to all of the policies that made it successful…namely the way the events are run. This includes not only the director system, CR system, the bump system, and all of the rules, but also the policies for crash/mechanical credits, rain credits, etc. Over time more and more member friendly perks were added as the club expanded and became more successful. The system worked really well when events were full because the national economy allowed for huge numbers of people to be spending a lot of money playing at track days. When the economy turned rough and revenues came way down (and not just for us but across the board for everybody) we have had to do three things. I stress the words had to because none of us wanted to do any of this. These three things are to look for ways to bring in more members to fill the events, cut back on the number of events and strategically plan the ones we commit to ensure their success, and three tighten our belts with all expenses.

Since the topic of this thread is credit transfers let me clue you guys in on how it works. Anytime a member wants to transfer their credits to someone we (me, Bob O, or DJ) go in a look up the source of those credits to verify they are eligible for transfer and to see how they originated. We have to see where they came from either through tracking down the original invoice, or crash/mechanical reason that they came into someone’s account. We do this to ensure the credits are legit and that neither the member or the club is getting screwed. Believe it or not the possibility exists that somebody might be up to no good. It’s possible that someone could hack into the system and create credits that they might try to sell, hack into another member account and try to sell their credits, or any number of other possibilities. There are thousands and thousands of member accounts and you can't just assume anything. Before anything gets transferred we verify the credits.

Credits that are for sale are rarely just one credit but rather the sum total of several credits. We have to go and look every one of them up and follow the trail all the way back to the original source. This can be very difficult and time consuming under the best of circumstances because often the credits are the balance (what's left after someone has used only part of the total amount of a credit) of the original credit. If a credit/credits have been transferred more than one time it becomes a nightmare. There have been several times when I’ve spent an hour trying to figure out one transfer and it’s a total PITA in the biggest way. We also have lots of requests from potential buyers asking for us to check out the seller for them before they send any money, it's just way too much trouble. The number of transfers has gotten to be ridiculous and it's getting to the point that it's just not worth it. All you have to do is just look at the listings in this forum see that.

Like Fitz said this surcharge is a minor deal in the grand scheme of things; after all nobody is forcing anyone to buy credits. If the new policy doesn't work for you you still have the option of just signing up for each track day one by one like most of us have always done (and which is the way you do it with other organizations). Let me just say that before the complaining about transferring crash credits or cancellation credits start, that offering these credits in the first place started with NESBA, we sill give them to our members, and we will still let you transfer them after the surcharge. How may other organizations even offer them, and if they do they won't let you sell them.
 

D-Zum

My 13 year old is faster than your President
Damn..you all protest like a bunch of Wisconsin Teachers!

(It's just a bit of humor...I just got done reading some news on CNN).

We live in "Interesting Times" friends. Everyone's finding it hard to keep the lights on these days.

When things were and are plentiful, giving the benefits back to us members is probably easy and very satisfying....looking where to trim back now and ask members to help keep those lights on must be an uncomfortable situation for our Directors.

Thanks for the elaboration on the behind the scenes details John on the work involved in executing a transfer transaction as well as the basis for the recent policy changes.

Those of us that can play are and should feel very fortunate.
 

beac83

Member
John,

Thanks for the feedback and reply. I truly didn't understand how much of a PITA these transfers are for you guys. I made a false assumption that the history and tracking of credits was not a difficult thing. If it truly takes an hour or more to do a transfer, then the surcharge is reasonable IMO, no matter how much I don't like the change on philosophical grounds.

I and many others truly understand what the present economic situation (going back some three years now) has done in terms of us (NESBA) having to make every penny count, and the work the Directors have been doing to keep things going is greatly appreciated.

Perhaps if the changes (this and the others) had been pre-announced here on the Forum with the explanation rather than just being dropped in the new Riders' Manual, it would have gone smoother.

We all care deeply about this club. That's why this discussion carried the passion it did. Please know that our criticism is meant (by me and many other members) to be constructive, not destructive.
 

D-Zum

My 13 year old is faster than your President
rk97;174534 wrote: Keep that s*#t in the Dungeon :rtfm:


:D
Indeed...that's why I made sure and hope people understand this was just a little Current Events comparison joke.

I have some opinions in the Shenanigans in the Cheese State, and if I feel I need to discuss them, I'll hit the Dungeon up for some stimulating political debate. Don't want to face DJ's wrath.

RK, you're almost at the 2,000 post mark...almost Judyish.
 

JRA

New Member
Thanks for the feedback and reply. I truly didn't understand how much of a PITA these transfers are for you guys. I made a false assumption that the history and tracking of credits was not a difficult thing. If it truly takes an hour or more to do a transfer, then the surcharge is reasonable IMO, no matter how much I don't like the change on philosophical grounds.
They aren't all that bad. I looked at one account a little while ago that had four credits and it was easy to see where they all came from. The transfer literally took five minutes.

The flip side of that is I just got through looking at another one that had ten credits in the account and five of them are balances from previous credits. I was trying to track those things back for several years trying to figure it all out. This particular member had a special circumstance along the way where we extended some credits for him, they then expired, the member notified us of the expiration and we re-issued the credits because of the special circumstance. It took me over forty-five minutes to figure that one out. For the first few months of last season I took care of most of this stuff until Bob O got up to speed and I know how frustrating it can be. I'm glad he get's to handle most of it now. (sorry Bob O):poorguy:


Perhaps if the changes (this and the others) had been pre-announced here on the Forum with the explanation rather than just being dropped in the new Riders' Manual, it would have gone smoother.
Yes, hindsight is twenty-twenty. We are taking note though.
 

oldn0tded

New Member
JRA;174504 wrote: None of the new policies that have been put into place have been done to make money. On the business side of things NESBA is not about making money, it's simply about paying the bills. That's become harder to do for economic reasons that should be obvious.

No matter what any of you might believe this club is non profit. WE have one paid employee and that’s Bob Ornduff. Not one other person From Bob B., to DJ, myself, and all of the other directors are getting paid one cent. The core philosophy of this club has always been to try and provide more for our members than other for profit businesses do. This philosophy led to all of the policies that made it successful…namely the way the events are run. This includes not only the director system, CR system, the bump system, and all of the rules, but also the policies for crash/mechanical credits, rain credits, etc. Over time more and more member friendly perks were added as the club expanded and became more successful. The system worked really well when events were full because the national economy allowed for huge numbers of people to be spending a lot of money playing at track days. When the economy turned rough and revenues came way down (and not just for us but across the board for everybody) we have had to
do three things. I stress the words had to because none of us wanted to do any of this. These three things are to look for ways to bring in more members to fill the events, cut back on the number of events and strategically plan the ones we commit to ensure their success, and three tighten our belts with all expenses.

Since the topic of this thread is credit transfers let me clue you guys in on how it works. Anytime a member wants to transfer their credits to someone we (me, Bob O, or DJ) go in a look up the source of those credits to verify they are eligible for transfer and to see how they originated. We have to see where they came from either through tracking down the original invoice, or crash/mechanical reason that they came into someone’s account. We do this to ensure the credits are legit and that neither the member or the club is getting screwed. Believe it or not the possibility exists that somebody might be up to no good. It’s possible that someone could hack into the system and create credits that they might try to sell, hack into another member account and try to sell their credits, or any number of other possibilities. There are thousands and thousands of member accounts and you can't just assume anything. Before anything gets transferred we verify the credits.

Credits that are for sale are rarely just one credit but rather the sum total of several credits. We have to go and look every one of them up and follow the trail all the way back to the original source. This can be very difficult and time consuming under the best of circumstances because often the credits are the balance (what's left after someone has used only part of the total amount of a credit) of the original credit. If a credit/credits have been transferred more than one time it becomes a nightmare. There have been several times when I’ve spent an hour trying to figure out one transfer and it’s a total PITA in the biggest way. We also have lots of requests from potential buyers asking for us to check out the seller for them before they send any money, it's just way too much trouble. The number of transfers has gotten to be ridiculous and it's getting to the point that it's just not worth it. All you have to do is just look at the listings in this forum see that.

Like Fitz said this surcharge is a minor deal in the grand scheme of things; after all nobody is forcing anyone to buy credits. If the new policy doesn't work for you you still have the option of just signing up for each track day one by one like most of us have always done (and which is the way you do it with other organizations). Let me just say that before the complaining about transferring crash credits or cancellation credits start, that offering these credits in the first place started with NESBA, we sill give them to our members, and we will still let you transfer them after the surcharge. How may other organizations even offer them, and if they do they won't let you sell them.
Good 'nuf for me!! Sounds reasonable, and since it doesn't involve human rights, or any kind of moral compromise, I'm able to keep the good work our revolutionary forefathers did out of it.
 

BigBird

Member
JRA;174565 wrote: Yes, hindsight is twenty-twenty. We are taking note though.
Almost all of these new changes this year have been poorly communicated to the members. I am truly disappointed, and usually expect NESBA to have better communication. :(
 

Meat

Member
D-Zum;174541 wrote:
RK, you're almost at the 2,000 post mark...almost Judyish.
He may aspire to be Judy, "not that there is anything wrong with that", but only Judy can be Judy. She is one cool chick in my books.
 

HondaGalToo

Control Rider
Meat;174983 wrote: He may aspire to be Judy, "not that there is anything wrong with that", but only Judy can be Judy. She is one cool chick in my books.
;) Aw shucks! Hope to get back down to VIR this year and see my southern nesbian friends!
 

Meat

Member
HondaGalToo;175023 wrote: ;) Aw shucks! Hope to get back down to VIR this year and see my southern nesbian friends!
Me too. Now that MTV is sending the crew of the Jersey Shore to Italy, there is no reason to stay in Jersey now!
 

lemondrop

Professional Asphalt Surfer
meat;175126 wrote: me too. Now that mtv is sending the crew of the jersey shore to italy, there is no reason to stay in jersey now!
r u farking kidding me!?!?!?!?!?!
 

DB_ZX10r

New Member
borgNSR;174435 wrote: Lucky this is just a policy which can and should be revisited and revised. There are no indications to the membership that a problem existed before the change, and no comment from NESBA directors in this thread (besides a clarification of the accounting). It is of ZERO benefit to members.


Membership?? That implies that members have some say or get some benefits from it?? This is a business run by a handful of people. The members really have no say in anything. The membership doesn't give anyone any real benefits......it's just a revenue maker. When smaller organizations can charge $125-135 for a Putnam trackday and NESBA and STT are in the $155-160 range it's apparent it's about profit. Oh wait, we have no more Putnam, or Grattan, or Mid-Ohio, or.............yeah the midwest calendar is getting slim:cool:
 

rk97

Member
NESBA is a registered non-profit group. I don't think it's that hard to get a look at their books if you'd like to see for yourself where all the revenue is collected and spent.
 

2trill357

Member
rk97;176670 wrote: NESBA is a registered non-profit group. I don't think it's that hard to get a look at their books if you'd like to see for yourself where all the revenue is collected and spent.
Speaking in general and not implying anything, but..............it doesn't take much for an organization to maintain a 501(c) status. There are many ways around the non-profit thing.

Again, not speaking against anyone or any org, but it seems as though there is a lot of misconception when it comes to the whole non-profit status. Not just here but everywhere.
 
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