Sick of watching riders get hurt due to unsafe race tracks

[design-engine]

I'm really worried myself (for myself) at that BHF racetrack. Since Ive been racing this year, Ive seen people disappear under tires in T2-T4- and now T5.... I already stuck my head into the T4 Tires ... but that was an accident or dumb mistake or my fault what ever you want to call it.... Be glad you didn't buckle your knees backwards like Travis but that was his fault for not seeing the black flag/accident. But thats my point. We should be able to make dumb mistakes and slide out into the grass to laugh about it. Or to bitch about the sand in the chain from sliding out into the sand or to laugh from pulling rocks/pebbles out of every crevice of the bike.

Ill be glad when I don't have to go back to that death trap (scratch death trap.. thats to harsh and could hurt someones feelings) ... dangerous lack of run off and possibly make another dumb mistake.

If I hurt anyone's feelings let me apologize now ahead of time. Apparently I hurt peoples feelings easy (talking about another forum). I got one more weekend of races there and I'm off to do some series that don't go there.

I broke some of those thoracic vertebrae bones off on multiple accidents over the Motocross years. Muscles pull them back and they grow back just fine unlike the clavicle where the muscles pull everything in the wrong direction. Hey... ask your doctor if you can tell people you broke your back once? Mine just laughed at me.

P.S. I can't wait to see the Bill. For that cost of a heli ride you could have personally donated money to move T4 and T5 wall back 300 feet including tree removal. Okay maybe that would be extra.

 

[j_fuggin_t]

eE jeremy;212051 wrote: That's for sure, they spend a lot of time and money setting up, tearing down, and storing all that airfence. They do this for us for free, well above and beyond what they have to do but they do it to help keep all of US safe! To the original poster: Rather than coming on here and complaining, it's a good idea to go thank the people that work so hard to make sure we have as safe of event as possible (This is afterall a dangerous sport). Letting them know their work is appreciated is far more likely to result in more effort in the future than complaining.

Enough said :congrats: As for the rest i'm going to use my vary rarely used filter here & keep it to myself

 

[Dead]

greeny;212037 wrote: so now that you've spent all our money moving back the wall in T2, what about all those bags in 4 and 5 that save so many people from hitting a wall or riding into the forest like me?

you're really shitting and tom and his crew that do SO much for motorcycles that they don't need to be doing. They really go above and beyond to work with what they've got and they're doing a great job.

I'm not trying to be negative and i wasn't saying spend all the money on turn 2. It was a great event and they do a great job making Blackhawk safer. I understand they can't do anything about turn 4 but i think they could push back turn 5. I just think we need a move the walls back fund and I'm not just talking about Blackhawk. This sport is dangerous as hell so we should try to make it as safe as possible. It's stupid for people to get hurt when they shouldn't have to. I think it hurts the sport when new riders show up and see one of their friends get hurt from hitting a wall and stop riding the track because of it. The waiver doesn't really mean you can't sue, just read this article- http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=31397

 

[sobottka]

:banghead: people have been offering time and money to this cause for as long as i can remember (mid 90's). if it was a matter of time, money, equptment, and labor, it would already be done. EVERYONE would like to see these changes including track managment and owners but it aint that simple at bhf. your beating a dead horse here. :banghead:

 

[iamnotgreg]

When I first started doing trackdays back in 2004/2005 I thought blackhawk was a rather scary track. Since then they have made tons of improvements towards safety, from pulling trees back to all that airfence all around to some repaving and corner changes (admittedly I am still not a fan of whatever that farm implement did to T1 and a bit to T7 but that said those are the only two corners on the track that I nail my apex like EVERY SINGLE TIME so maybe it's a good thing )

Now that said yes I have been to newer tracks that have more run off and in that aspect are a bit safer but I think Blackhawk with it's almost country road like atmosphere is perhaps a bit nicer to ride.

Also one other thing - Over the years I have gotten to ride a couple AMA tracks (Road America and Mid-Ohio) and there are definitely sections of those tracks - or ones you watch on tv - that are way less safe. Next time you are watching racing look at how close the crowds are to the track on the outside/impact zone. Look at how at Indy they use fencing that would look more appropriate in a prison than on a racetrack to keep things from flying into the stands.

At Mid Ohio along 12 you are right next to a wall - not an impact zone but a bit scary - then you come through 13 to 14 - in that area if you were to lose it in 13 (by pit in) you could go straight into armco barriers - there was no airfence, you are leaned hard right and then tip up and left into 14. That's an AMA level pro track and that corner right there is more unsafe than any corner I can think of at Blackhawk. Not that it is exactly an incredibly fast corner but you don't have to hit armco all that fast for it to do serious damage.

I guess all I am rambling is that things are being done. It has gotten a lot better over the years. I imagine it will continue improving. This sport is definitely not golf but that said who of us would be doing it if it was? I am all for common sense safety and I think that's what we are seeing - safety changes made to the most dangerous parts of the track first then moving down the line to the areas where there are less accidents and or less damaging ones.

 

[fitz]

You guys really confuse me sometimes. :notsure:

You tell others how much safer it is to go fast on a race track than on the street because you don't have trees, walls etc to run into, but if a track has walls isn't that defeating the purpose of why we go to the race track?

Personally I won't ride on a track that presents the same dangers as the street, that's why I PAY to go to the track. BTW never been to BHF so :dunno:

My .0000002

fitz

 

[Dead]

Duplicate error

 

[iamnotgreg]

fitz;212104 wrote: You guys really confuse me sometimes. :notsure:

You tell others how much safer it is to go fast on a race track than on the street because you don't have trees, walls etc to run into, but if a track has walls isn't that defeating the purpose of why we go to the race track?

Personally I won't ride on a track that presents the same dangers as the street, that's why I PAY to go to the track. BTW never been to BHF so :dunno:

My .0000002

fitz

In all fairness a wall made of airfence is a lot softer than a wall made of brick or steel or even worse those cable barriers or fire hydrants or other cars with distracted drivers..

I have given up on the street. Too much to lose nowadays. I just look around me at all the things you can hit in every impact zone - crashing and walking away from it on the street is just pure luck. I look back at all the times someone has hit my bike and knocked me off and another person almost ran me over.. Watching a friend get creamed and killed on the street was the final straw for me.

The track might not be perfect - few are. It's still leaps and bounds in safety beyond the dangers on the street.

 

[fitz]

iamnotgreg;212106 wrote:
The track might not be perfect - few are. It's still leaps and bounds in safety beyond the dangers on the street.

:agree:

There are a few turns on tracks that freak me out a bit, T9 Beav, T4 Summit Main, Last turn Putnam, T14 MidO etc.. luckly I'm not racing so I can chicken out on those turns

 

[j_fuggin_t]

fitz;212104 wrote: You guys really confuse me sometimes. :notsure:

You tell others how much safer it is to go fast on a race track than on the street because you don't have trees, walls etc to run into, but if a track has walls isn't that defeating the purpose of why we go to the race track?

Personally I won't ride on a track that presents the same dangers as the street, that's why I PAY to go to the track. BTW never been to BHF so :dunno:

My .0000002

fitz

Blackhawk is fun, make it out sometime.. that being said i don't find that i'm in a danger filled track when i'm riding there, could i crash and hit something yes, but that is why there is $25k worth of airfence and soon to be even more since this past weekend was fuggin amazing for donations to make blackhawk safer YET AGAIN, the grounds crew is great and as many have already touched on they make it safer for us on their own time.

 

[some guy #2]

I never felt uncomfortable in the last turns at Mid-O. Putnam turn 10 that is a scary moment at times. Road america the back straight the walls seem awfully close. Barber turn 1 has a nice section of wall.

I don't think a perfectly safe track exists. Everywhere has it's bad spots.

 

[j_fuggin_t]

some guy #2;212112 wrote:
I don't think a perfectly safe track exists. Everywhere has it's bad spots.

only safe track would be to find the biggest piece of land you can find, excavate it and flatten it out, make a 1/2 mile complete circle around all of it and line it with airfence & i'll guarantee that someone will still get hurt on occasion, its part of our sport

 

[gkotlin]

If only it were a perfect world. Then we'd be whining that the paddock isn't completely covered. We really shouldn't have to pit in the rain. Seriously. I have to bring my own foldable canopy to stay dry!

 

[elephino]

Yeah, racing and trackdays are kind of separate things, aren't they? As a racer, you get paid (or pay) to push to the limit, and the expectation is that you'll find it. Trackdays leave you the leeway to say, "hey I don't like the wall on the outside of T4, so I'm gonna take it easy through there."

It always sucks to see someone get hurt. But we have to be mindful that these tracks weren't necessarily built for motorcycles, and the trackday orgs do their best to cater to us in terms of safety.

Moreover, there is a level of personal responsibility we have to assume here... if we don't like a track, we don't have to visit it. If we don't like a turn, we don't have to rail through it. There are risks everywhere in life. We can't expect other people to remove them all, especially for the hobbies in which we partake voluntarily. We're not entitled to safety, and we are responsible for our own decisions.

Best wishes for your buddy.

 

[Cyclepath]

I limp everyday of my life from T2 crash at BHF in 2008. I never blamed the track, as much as i hate the proximity of the walls in some spots.

Everyone knows it was Palella's POS gsxr 750 that is to blame.......

All dangerous sports have their limitations. At our riding level, its not the bike, or the tires, or the brakes. Its inmovable objects such as tree's or walls. The rider has to make adjustments to work within these limitations. If he cannot, he should change sports. ie, go slow where you are unwilling to take responsability for the worst possible outcome.

As Forrest Gump says "_ _It happens"

 

[Germany]

this:

but in all honesty, if you don't think it's safe - don't do it.
I never saw anyone with a gun or anything else on the track making you DO something... I do a lot of ( stupid ) street riding, and maybe because of all that I don't see the death trap...

When most tracks were build, bikes and cars were not as fast as they are now, that would be a thing to consider as well, instead of blaming the track.
Hell statistics say more people get hurt at home than anywhere else, so you gonna stay away from home?
Unfortunately bad things happen, and unfortunately is it not as easy as it looks to build a track that is all safe.

I'm not a 100% sure about the environment around BHF, but I'm sure if you try to cut one tree you will have dozends of tree hugers working against you, because that is what THEY care about trees and not humans.

 

[dlockhart5x]

Ask yourself whom restricting any changes benefits, and further who also benefits from it being a ongoing issue.

 

[keller34]

im gonna put my .02 in. i agree with dead that the walls CAN be moved, yes it would take alot of jumping threw hoops an alot of work an even money. i talked to tom for about an hr sat about moving the wall in T2 bc of my crash in july. he said its more than just moving the wall in T2 they would have to change the rail around T3 as well and the trees an ground arent the way they need to be to move the wall. And i understand that it would take alot to get these changes done but really what is a life lost worth.......? I know a ton of ppl would donate the time and even $ to make it safer to everyone, not just bikes but even cars. Im not complaining about the track being unsafe bc no matter what,the sport is dangerous and you dont need to hit a wall to get hurt, but we can make it safer. I agree with both sides, that the track has made improvements, but more could be made. i would like to thank nesba for doing just that by holding the chilli cookoff and raising $ for the air fence, ive had an absolute blast at the 2 ive attended and didnt even ride. So to some it up i thnk things can be done to make it safer but i understand that no matter what the the danger will always be there. oh and the few that were wondering, yes i will be back at the track riding with you guys when i get 100%

 

[keller34]

oh and the i would also like to thank the corner workers/ safety and med crew. Tom and them guys do an abdsolutey awesome job when someone does go down and get hurt. from the moment i hit the wall i was in the ER i think within 25 mins!!! Awesome job guys keep it up!

 

[Trent1098S]

Tossing my .02 in because everyone else is.

I've had three bus trips - two were from landing in grass, one from highsiding and hitting pavement. That last one I'm still in pain from a year and a half later.

This isn't a safe sport, there's always factors outside of your control. But, overall a lot fewer than on the street. Overall, it's ignoring the factors IN your control that gets you in trouble - at least, that's the way it was with me. On that last lap I rolled before I highsided at RA, I kept feeling my rear stepping out on me on the gas, but I didn't back off. Got lucky for a few laps. Luck didn't hold.

This being said, I've never felt especially unsafe at Blackhawk. Autobahn, yes. Putnam, yes (clipping the curbing on T10 leads to a heck of a butt-pucker moment). But never felt unsafe at Blackhawk except the time Jason Farrel decided to go out in B group and took me on the inside of 2 in full-on pouring rain (Fred jumped his ass for that). Worst corner he could have pulled that shit in - there was no airfence whatsoever in that corner at the time.

Hope the guys that were hurt mend up quick & completely.